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[Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
09-25-2015, 11:13 AM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 07:57 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #1
[Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
Hi,

While this may not be a problem for young people, I personally find the fonts provided by the Prime ("small", "medium" and "large") too small to use comfortably. Even the "large" font is way too small, IMO.

While having small fonts may be beneficial to keep much stuff visible on the display, for normal "number crunching", the digit sizes provided by "normal" calculators is much preferred. The "size 8" system font in the 50g is too small for my taste as well, but the 50g is no longer under active development, unfortunately, so there's nothing that could be fixed here any more, while for the Prime (and potential successor models) many things are still not hammered in stone and the optimum still needs to be found, I assume (and hope).

So, I guess, what I want is "extra-large", "super-large" and "ultra-large" fonts, scaling up to three times the size of the Prime's "large" font...

Is there a way to create and install larger fonts on the Prime? (I am still using the emulator with the "medium" skin, which already shows a slightly larger than real size calculator, so I guess using the physical device the problem would be even more apparent.)

Thanks and greetings,

Matthias


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09-25-2015, 12:44 PM
Post: #2
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
Curiously, although the main calculator only seems to allow 3 small fonts, the Notes editor allows larger fonts, I believe.
There's no immediate "print to notes" option, or ability to display notes within a program at larger size.

But if you copy your results into a Notes file, you should subsequently be able to read the results more easily.

Not as convenient as having the size directly available, but it might help.

Stephen Lewkowicz (G1CMZ)
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09-25-2015, 01:50 PM
Post: #3
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
(09-25-2015 11:13 AM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  So, I guess, what I want is "extra-large", "super-large" and "ultra-large" fonts, scaling up to three times the size of the Prime's "large" font...

Part of the problem is the UI. We aren't resolution independent in any way yet. The questions I have back to you are:
1. Where do you want the "larger" fonts to be working. For example, it is trivial to make it appear in the normal places where fonts impact things currently (home screen, text entry locations, etc), but the tags in the dialog boxes, and the menu buttons, and the app library labels are all fixed size for example.
2. Which font size in the note catalog do you find acceptable? To get there, open a note, type a bit of text, click "format" and you'll find a font size. I've stuck a picture with some samples below.
3. If the font is so big that it can't fit in the "text boxes" in a dialog form, do you find it acceptable if the text is cut off slightly from the box?

[attachment=2574]

TW

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09-25-2015, 03:47 PM
Post: #4
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
I use either the medium or large font. Small is just too small for me.
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09-25-2015, 03:52 PM (This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 04:05 PM by Spybot.)
Post: #5
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
Just as Matthias, I've personally been facing the same visual problems with the HP Prime font sizes, I find the fonts are too small (even the large size font). I'd be more than glad to see my everyday math work on a larger font or why not on a larger screen if possible. but for now if we had a larger font would be great!

I'll give my opinion to some of the questions Tim asked:

*Where do we want the "larger" fonts to be working?
I'd say on a global scale, the whole calculator environment.

*Which font size in the note catalog do you find acceptable?
size 20 and up.

*If the font is so big that it can't fit in the "text boxes" in a dialog form,
Do you find it acceptable if the text is cut off slightly from the box?
Maybe scrolling could be an option.

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09-25-2015, 04:24 PM (This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 04:25 PM by primer.)
Post: #6
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
Hi,
true, a bigger font would be nice.

(09-25-2015 01:50 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  1. Where do you want the "larger" fonts to be working. For example, it is trivial to make it appear in the normal places where fonts impact things currently (home screen, text entry locations, etc), but the tags in the dialog boxes, and the menu buttons, and the app library labels are all fixed size for example.
Most important is home screen (and program edit mode)
if possible text entry and dialog boxes too.
it may be hard for menu button, but hopefully they keep on same place, so it's not a big issue if they can't be increased.

(09-25-2015 01:50 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  2. Which font size in the note catalog do you find acceptable? To get there, open a note, type a bit of text, click "format" and you'll find a font size. I've stuck a picture with some samples below.
at least font 18.

(09-25-2015 01:50 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  3. If the font is so big that it can't fit in the "text boxes" in a dialog form, do you find it acceptable if the text is cut off slightly from the box?
if it possible to scroll that's a good idea, otherwise do not cut. (well, it's just my opinion)

I think too big font like 22 and more is may be hard to implement because of existing screen layout in all applications.

Best Regards,

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09-26-2015, 01:40 AM
Post: #7
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
I vote too for bigger font overall. I am using android Prime only and text in its current biggest size is hard to read on 6" screen (calc diag is 2.9" [74 mm]) even with glasses.

Matching Prime proportions to phone screen height/width ratio
Black and silver margins are 0.55" wide [2×7 mm] which is almost 20% of calc screen. It is completely useless waste of space. :-(

           

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09-27-2015, 01:30 PM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 08:04 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #8
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
(09-25-2015 01:50 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  1. Where do you want the "larger" fonts to be working. For example, it is trivial to make it appear in the normal places where fonts impact things currently (home screen, text entry locations, etc), but the tags in the dialog boxes, and the menu buttons, and the app library labels are all fixed size for example.
Well, the option to use a larger font would be most important in the input line / stack level 1, so you can make entries and read results without hassle. To a slightly lesser extent it would also be important for a (cursor-)selected line higher up the stack, to a yet lesser extent to the stack as a whole, and (most of the time) even less to other display elements.

Since people might have different needs and tastes, there should be three (or four -- see below) independent selections for them. The default settings for input line / stack level 1 and selected stack line should be "same as stack", so that you can change the whole appearance of the stack display with one setting unless you really want to configure the elements individually. The input line / stack level 1 might use a larger, but never a smaller font size than the selected stack line. Likewise for the selected stack line and the remainder of the stack. So, if the current selection for the input line would be 18 and for the selected stack line it would be 20, and the user would then change the font size for the stack as a whole to 22, the other two selections should be automatically pushed upwards to 22 effectively as well. This could be implemented by actually changing the other settings in such a situation as well, but it might be even more convenient if the settings in the menu stay where they are and the font sizes are overridden anyway -- this way, in this example the user could change the size of the stack display back to 18, and the system would "remember" the previous individual settings again without having to change all three settings.

While it would be desireable to have the font size for menu trees, title bars, soft menus etc. become configurable as well at a later stage, this is less important, since the contents does not change (much), and thus will be memorized after a while even if it is too small to read comfortably. This fourth setting should allow independent choices up to whatever is the current selection for a highlighted stack line, that is, always be smaller or equal to the size of the input line, but possibly larger than non-highlighted stack lines.

Quote:2. Which font size in the note catalog do you find acceptable? To get there, open a note, type a bit of text, click "format" and you'll find a font size. I've stuck a picture with some samples below.
I would make them all available under Settings instead of only the three smallest ones.

Based on the Prime's display 22 point appears to be the largest size still allowing a number like -1.23456789012E-123 to be displayed in a single line without truncation. It also allows for at least 6 visible stack levels, more than enough.

Otherwise, I would like to have sizes up to about 28 point, which would still allow 4 stack levels to be displayed, but would need to be rendered narrower to still allow numbers like -1.23456789012E-123 without truncation or scrolling. If such narrower fonts (only for the really large sizes!) would be an option technically, I would allow size choices up to completely filling up 4 stack levels.
Quote:3. If the font is so big that it can't fit in the "text boxes" in a dialog form, do you find it acceptable if the text is cut off slightly from the box?
Not without any option to scroll the text somehow - it would look like a localization bug rather than a feature otherwise.

If a smart and convenient way could be found to still make the contents of the box available while using a large font, I wouldn't opt against it (but personally I'm not a fan of animations like auto-scrolling texts at all - it reminds me of cheap and obtrusive "low level" advertisments, nothing I'd want in a "serious" tool).
Otherwise, I would find the next smaller fitting font size acceptable. In either case, this should depend on the fourth setting above, not the selection(s) for input line and stack.

Greetings,

Matthias


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09-27-2015, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 01:43 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #9
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
(09-25-2015 01:50 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  To get there, open a note, type a bit of text, click "format" and you'll find a font size.
I don't know if this has been fixed already, but there is a bug in the implementation leading to a crash of the emulator (Revision 6575, 2014-12-03):

If, inside notes, you press and open the "Style" soft menu (without making a selection), and then immediately press and open the "Format" soft menu in order to select either "Foreground Color" or "Background Color", the emulator will
display the following message:

"Error: The application has crashed and will be restarted."

Afterwards, you will find yourself either in "Solve" or "Function" or with the animated "Locked" screen saver activated. Selecting "Font size" or "Align" will not cause this crash. Also, the crash will not occur, if "Foreground Color" or "Background Color" is selected without coming from the "Style" soft menu.

Greetings,

Matthias


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09-27-2015, 04:44 PM
Post: #10
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
(09-27-2015 01:42 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  Afterwards, you will find yourself either in "Solve" or "Function" or with the animated "Locked" screen saver activated. Selecting "Font size" or "Align" will not cause this crash. Also, the crash will not occur, if "Foreground Color" or "Background Color" is selected without coming from the "Style" soft menu.

Hello,

I've given this a try doing several different way with old and new and have been unable to see it happen on my end. Anyone else?

TW

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09-27-2015, 05:50 PM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 05:56 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #11
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
(09-27-2015 04:44 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  I've given this a try doing several different way with old and new and have been unable to see it happen on my end. Anyone else?
Okay, let's see. This is one possible sequence to cause the crash here (using mouse and keyboard):

- Menu>Calculator>Reset emulator to get default settings
- Shift+0/Notes keys to invoke notes editor
- Soft menu "New" followed by 1 Enter Enter keys to create new file
- Cursor is in upper left corner, no text, soft menu displays "solid mid-point" and "Insert"
- Soft menu "Format">"Foreground Color" will open a colorful checkerboard, no crash
- Pressing soft menu "Style" will open a sub-menu with six entries, none of them selected
- Pressing soft menu "Format">"Foreground Color" or "Format">"Background Color" again will cause the crash to occur.

Another observation:

Sometimes, pressing "Format">"Foreground Color" or "Format">"Background Color" will not bring up the color menu, but a 4x5 array with text "Right", "Center" or "Left". Closing the sub-menu, temporarily opening "Font Size" and reopening the ""Foreground Color" or "Background Color" sub-menu again will now display the color menu. Apparently, this happens (more often?) when the "Format>"Align" sub-menu was opened before "Format">"Foreground Color" or "Format">"Background Color", but the displayed text does not always appear to be the same as indicated as selected in the "Align" menu (f.e. it will display "Right" even if Align indicates "Left").

Looks like something not properly initialized to me, this would also explain that it is apparently not visible everywhere (I can reproduce this here with "reliability").

Hope it helps,

Matthias


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09-27-2015, 07:28 PM
Post: #12
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
(09-27-2015 05:50 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  ...
- Pressing soft menu "Format">"Foreground Color" or "Format">"Background Color"
Yes, I can confirm that does crash the virtual calc, rev8151.
and it also crash the real hp prime (8151), paperclip !

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09-28-2015, 04:30 AM (This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 04:31 AM by Spybot.)
Post: #13
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
I also confirm the crash described above, and the one when you press; "Format">"Foreground Color" or "Format">"Background Color" will not bring up the color menu, but a 4x5 array with text "Right", "Center" or "Left".


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09-28-2015, 01:46 PM
Post: #14
RE: [Prime] Is it possible to install larger display fonts?
Thanks! I was able to see it.

TW

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