Math Pac
08-10-2015, 03:50 PM
Post: #1
 Leviset Member Posts: 133 Joined: Aug 2015
Math Pac
All please forgive an old time programmer (now retired) who cut his teeth writing programs for the HP-97 in the early 80s in the UK. A very kind man from Harrowgate gave me his unused HP-41CX complete with case and both manuals plus 2 X-Memory cards in 2 of the 4 available slots. He bought it in the 1980s in Singapore but it was never used as he had a work one as well.
My question is I know you could (can?) get different Pacs to slot in. The one I want is the Math Pac. I've recently bought the full $40 usb stick from the HP museum. Am I right in thinking that somewhere on there I'll find all the programs that were in the Math Pac and at worst I could rekey each of them and store them on one of my X-Memory cards basically creating my own Math Pac? Is there any way to copy the programs from the usb stick straight to the X-Memory card? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated as I doubt I can actually buy the Math Pac. Thanks Denny Denny 08-10-2015, 05:44 PM Post: #2  rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,768 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Math Pac (08-10-2015 03:50 PM)Leviset Wrote: All please forgive an old time programmer (now retired) who cut his teeth writing programs for the HP-97 in the early 80s in the UK. A very kind man from Harrowgate gave me his unused HP-41CX complete with case and both manuals plus 2 X-Memory cards in 2 of the 4 available slots. He bought it in the 1980s in Singapore but it was never used as he had a work one as well. My question is I know you could (can?) get different Pacs to slot in. The one I want is the Math Pac. I've recently bought the full$40 usb stick from the HP museum. Am I right in thinking that somewhere on there I'll find all the programs that were in the Math Pac and at worst I could rekey each of them and store them on one of my X-Memory cards basically creating my own Math Pac? Is there any way to copy the programs from the usb stick straight to the X-Memory card? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated as I doubt I can actually buy the Math Pac.
Thanks
Denny

While the MoHPC USB drive is something you really should get anyhow, it contains primarily manuals (including for the Application ROMs) and other documents, but not the ROM images themselves.

While there are many options, the simplest and most economical choice is to get a Clonix Module from Diego Diaz at his website here: http://www.clonix41.org/.

This module contains EPROM which can be loaded with images of most of the HP Application ROMs (included). For example you can load 4 ROM images into this one module, similar to plugging-in 4 of the original ROM modules, but only using 1 port.

Of the many options, for what you stated, I think a Clonix-D module is the best choice, but when you contact him, tell Diego what you want to do; he is very helpful and knowledgeable and can guide you better than I can.

Another option, if you want the actual modules, is to buy them on eBay or other online auction websites, they are readily available, but often without manuals, quick guides, etc. But for what you pay for 1 or 2 of these modules, the Clonix module will let you use many more applications.

Lastly, if you are looking for a top-end solution, look at the amazing HP-41CL, at this website: http://www.systemyde.com/hp41/. This is a far more powerful and flexible system, but as you should expect, it does cost more and is a bit more difficult to learn and use. That said, it is the ultimate extension of the HP-41 series of machines.

Hope this helps.

--bob

--Bob Prosperi
08-10-2015, 06:19 PM
Post: #3
 Paul Berger (Canada) Senior Member Posts: 455 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
(08-10-2015 03:50 PM)Leviset Wrote:  The one I want is the Math Pac. I've recently bought the full \$40 usb stick from the HP museum. Am I right in thinking that somewhere on there I'll find all the programs that were in the Math Pac and at worst I could rekey each of them and store them on one of my X-Memory cards basically creating my own Math Pac? Is there any way to copy the programs from the usb stick straight to the X-Memory card? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated as I doubt I can actually buy the Math Pac.
Thanks
Denny
I have a Math pack available, just the ROM I do not have a manual to go with it. Send me a private message or email if you are interested.
08-10-2015, 06:44 PM
Post: #4
 Leviset Member Posts: 133 Joined: Aug 2015
RE: Math Pac
Bob,
Thanks for the response. My degree is in Pure Mathematics but over the years I've collected a number of vintage calculators and programmed them to run mathematical simulations and proofs. I wouldn't call myself up todate with modern computer languages and it's been many years since I did any assembly programming. I've looked the site you recommend and browsed the manual which unfortunately does not have many images of the unit. Does the unit attach at the top where the tape reader would go or is it small enough to connect to one of the 4 available memory ports? When you say flashing Rom I'm familiar with using say TI-89 rom to an online emulator. With the Pacs do they come as small plastic modules to plug into the new unit and once the Pac has been flashed does the Math Pac appear in one of the empty categories on the hp41? I've got the manual for the Math Pac but I'm struggling to understand the concept of how it all comes together. I couldn't see how much the new unit and/or separate Pacs would cost?
Denny[/font]
08-10-2015, 06:46 PM
Post: #5
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,447 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
Scan / PDF / text file of HP41 application pac program listings?

The ROM can be found here: MATH.zip

HTH
Thomas
08-10-2015, 07:23 PM
Post: #6
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,768 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
(08-10-2015 06:44 PM)Leviset Wrote:  Bob,
Thanks for the response. My degree is in Pure Mathematics but over the years I've collected a number of vintage calculators and programmed them to run mathematical simulations and proofs. I wouldn't call myself up todate with modern computer languages and it's been many years since I did any assembly programming. I've looked the site you recommend and browsed the manual which unfortunately does not have many images of the unit. Does the unit attach at the top where the tape reader would go or is it small enough to connect to one of the 4 available memory ports? When you say flashing Rom I'm familiar with using say TI-89 rom to an online emulator. With the Pacs do they come as small plastic modules to plug into the new unit and once the Pac has been flashed does the Math Pac appear in one of the empty categories on the hp41? I've got the manual for the Math Pac but I'm struggling to understand the concept of how it all comes together. I couldn't see how much the new unit and/or separate Pacs would cost?
Denny[/font]

The modules that Diego sells are actually made from original HP Application Module cases - so you will have one additional module to plug into you HP-41, which will provide up to 4 application modules (so you can install MATH, STATS, and Advantage ROM (which counts as 2) - just examples - all at once).

The Module comes with (at additional cost, but not much) a programmer/USB cable and software. So you just plug the Clonix module onto the programmer, open the software, select the application ROMS you want, and click on a few buttons to tell the s/w to convert the images to the proper internal format, and then it downloads into the module. The whole process takes about 5 minutes.

But you can reprogram the module with different combinations of Application ROMs as often as you want. The application ROM files come with the Clonix software.

If you are only interested in the MATH ROM, perhaps it makes more sense to contact Paul Berger who has one available (see above).

By today's standards, the HP-41 MATH ROM is not very sophisticated or up-to-date.

For advanced math, an HP Prime or HP-50G, or the community-made WP-34S (look for more info on this site) are far more capable.

But if you prefer to stay with the 41C, a Clonix-D with the ROMs mentioned above are probably your best bet.

As you learn more about using the Clonix, you can also start to explore some of the much more modern and capable new ROMs, created by Angel Martin, covering lots of topics like Matrices, Complex math, plus a lot of stuff I have not even explored yet. These are new ROMs, still being created today, and offer as much as is possible in a 41C machine (but FAR past what was possible back when the original ROMs were made). Check out the SandMath ROM for example; search this site for information.

--Bob Prosperi
08-11-2015, 01:43 PM
Post: #7
 Ángel Martin Senior Member Posts: 1,070 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
(08-10-2015 07:23 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  By today's standards, the HP-41 MATH ROM is not very sophisticated or up-to-date.

For advanced math, an HP Prime or HP-50G, or the community-made WP-34S (look for more info on this site) are far more capable.

But if you prefer to stay with the 41C, a Clonix-D with the ROMs mentioned above are probably your best bet.

As you learn more about using the Clonix, you can also start to explore some of the much more modern and capable new ROMs, created by Angel Martin, covering lots of topics like Matrices, Complex math, plus a lot of stuff I have not even explored yet. These are new ROMs, still being created today, and offer as much as is possible in a 41C machine (but FAR past what was possible back when the original ROMs were made). Check out the SandMath ROM for example; search this site for information.

Appreciate the mention to the SandMath et al - as Bob says for advanced Math you can always use a bigger stick - but if you fancy the 41 platform then by all means toss the HP-Math Pack into the "historical remnants" bucket. The newer modules are faster and much more complete, even if they're still limited by the 41 architecture/data range/etc.

Cheers,
ÁM
08-14-2015, 07:36 AM (This post was last modified: 08-14-2015 07:37 AM by Garth Wilson.)
Post: #8
 Garth Wilson Senior Member Posts: 373 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
To get an idea of the quality of Ángel Martin's work, look at the manual for the Sandmath module with gobs of math extensions at http://hp41.claughan.com/file/SANDMATH_44%20Manual.pdf , and the manual for the 41z module at http://hp41.claughan.com/file/41Z_Manual.pdf . They're stunning. The 41z module gives the 41 a true 4-level complex stack and tons of complex-number arithmetic functions and enhancements, with over 100 written in assembly language IIRC for maximum performance. These are both from just the last three or four years, meaning very recent.

Check out Diego's NoV-64 flashable hardware module at http://www.clonix41.org/Projects/Nov64/Nov64_00.htm .

I am not familiar with the old Math module, but I get the idea that even the Advantage ROM is much better. Valentin Albillo used to have a write-up on it at http://membres.multimania.fr/albillo/cal...eVA008.pdf but it's not coming up at the moment. Can someone tell me where it went? (Hopefully it's still up and I can just change the link in the HP-41 section of my links page.

I myself have a 41cx with HPIL and Extended I/O (a combined, double module which I bought that way, so the two only take up one slot), a double Extended Memory module (again bought that way, so the two only take one slot), the Advantage module, and the ZENROM which I use for synthetic programming. The ZENROM has an assembler too, but I have not bought the right kind of memory to use it. As you may know by now, the 41cx is like a 41c with the main memory completely full, the Extended Functions module built in, the Time module built in, a text editor, and some other things that are not available in the 41c or cv.

08-14-2015, 07:56 AM
Post: #9
 Didier Lachieze Senior Member Posts: 1,149 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
(08-14-2015 07:36 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  Valentin Albillo used to have a write-up on it at http://membres.multimania.fr/albillo/cal...eVA008.pdf but it's not coming up at the moment. Can someone tell me where it went? (Hopefully it's still up and I can just change the link in the HP-41 section of my links page.

All great articles from Valentin are archived here.
08-14-2015, 08:23 AM
Post: #10
 Garth Wilson Senior Member Posts: 373 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
Thankyou Didier. The one I was thinking of is at https://web.archive.org/web/201212140727...eVA008.pdf , although I see now that it did not address as much about the Advantage module as I was thinking.

08-14-2015, 06:44 PM
Post: #11
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,768 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Math Pac
(08-14-2015 07:56 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  All great articles from Valentin are archived here.

Thanks Didier, I had not seen this collection before. Bookmarked!

And I could not agree more with Garth's comments. If you want to continue to work with your 41C, you really must see Angel's new math ROMs. One look at the manual, and the amazing quality of his MANY ROM modules will immediately become clear.

--Bob Prosperi
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