Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
12-03-2014, 05:15 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 05:15 AM by ndzied1.)
Post: #1
 ndzied1 Member Posts: 103 Joined: Apr 2014
Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Upgraded to the latest without problems but found what I think is a pretty major bug in this update in hardware and emulator.

With the prime in RPN mode, the {X^2} key does not work.

It works in Textbook and Algebraic modes but not RPN...

It throws a Syntax error whether trying to operate on the stack or command line.

I haven't found that it is linked to an entry mode.
12-03-2014, 07:43 AM
Post: #2
 Gerald H Senior Member Posts: 1,458 Joined: May 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Confirmed.
12-03-2014, 07:50 AM
Post: #3
 Angus Member Posts: 212 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Confirmed
12-03-2014, 07:52 AM
Post: #4
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,341 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Confirmed in Virtual Calculator.
I do not have my physical machine with me to test it.

Jose Mesquita

12-03-2014, 10:39 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 10:42 AM by Angus.)
Post: #5
 Angus Member Posts: 212 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
I HAVE to ask (although Tim asked us not to request any FW updates): Will that be fixed soon or would I be better off trying to downgrade the software?
Yes, squaring is a common task with my calculations....
12-03-2014, 11:08 AM
Post: #6
 Gerald H Senior Member Posts: 1,458 Joined: May 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-03-2014 05:15 AM)ndzied1 Wrote:  Upgraded to the latest without problems but found what I think is a pretty major bug in this update in hardware and emulator.

With the prime in RPN mode, the {X^2} key does not work.

It works in Textbook and Algebraic modes but not RPN...

It throws a Syntax error whether trying to operate on the stack or command line.

I haven't found that it is linked to an entry mode.

I bought a Prime ages ago , very impressed by the advertising & the machine's power & the Cas.

It doesn't really work the way I wanted it to, being used to the 48, 49 & 50G, but as it's so much more powerful I thought I'd make the effort....

Having made some effort & having been rewarded by numerous OS collapses I gave up. I now occasionally take the machine out of the draw, look at it & laugh.

Perhaps I just didn't try hard enough ... I'll leave it up to you who show more persistence.

I'm reminded of the game of Bridge in the interwar years, when the Brits developed the "British Bidding System" which they used in international tournaments & with which they consistently lost.

One should be positive & one should know when to drop it.
12-03-2014, 11:30 AM
Post: #7
 ndzied1 Member Posts: 103 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Of course the temporary fix is to do the square operation by ENTER ENTER * (or ENTER * if the operand is already on the stack).

Maybe I will use this time to practice Textbook entry mode.
12-03-2014, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 12:10 PM by Angus.)
Post: #8
 Angus Member Posts: 212 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Are you serious? My workaround would be 2+x^y..... But, well there is a dedicated key on the calculator... In this case I tend to refuse to tolerate the phrase workaround. :-)
It is sad, because such avoidable bugs damage the prime's image and we need positive news.
12-03-2014, 01:06 PM
Post: #9
 ndzied1 Member Posts: 103 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-03-2014 12:06 PM)Angus Wrote:  Are you serious? My workaround would be 2+x^y..... But, well there is a dedicated key on the calculator... In this case I tend to refuse to tolerate the phrase workaround. :-)
It is sad, because such avoidable bugs damage the prime's image and we need positive news.

Yup, serious. My finger will likely be on the enter key anyway so hitting twice is easy. The multiply key is right below so it's quick and repeatable to get to it from enter.

Of course your way works too and everyone will have their favorite.
12-03-2014, 02:57 PM
Post: #10
 mbeddo Member Posts: 54 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
So I have software version 2014 7 2 (6031) and the x^2 key works in RPN mode. So it sounds like I should resist updating the OS for a bit?
12-03-2014, 03:38 PM
Post: #11
 Alberto Candel Member Posts: 169 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
On the other hand, the [X^Y] works well on the stack.
12-03-2014, 10:16 PM
Post: #12
 lenborje Member Posts: 53 Joined: Jul 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
Entering a superscript 2 using the "Chars" menu works in RPN!

This means that you can create a real workaround by a user key assignment.

Code:
 KEY K_Sq() BEGIN   RETURN "²"; END;

(There's a single character, a superscript 2, within the double quotes. I hope it turns out correct in all browsers.)

Then activate the User keyboard.

/Lennart Börjeson
Stockholm, Sweden
12-04-2014, 12:00 AM
Post: #13
 Snorre Member Posts: 101 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
But the user key solution is a two-keystroke-sequence (like [ENTER] [*]).
[x²] should behave like "SQ" (as in older HPs) and not like "^2".
12-04-2014, 01:52 AM
Post: #14
 Bill (Smithville NJ) Senior Member Posts: 437 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-03-2014 11:30 AM)ndzied1 Wrote:  Maybe I will use this time to practice Textbook entry mode.

I think you just discovered HP's ultimate object - slowly disable that nasty RPN mode, one key at a time, until everyone is forced into Textbook mode or Algebraic mode (I am shuddering as I type this).

Bill
12-04-2014, 01:56 AM
Post: #15
 Han Senior Member Posts: 1,878 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-04-2014 01:52 AM)Bill (Smithville NJ) Wrote:
(12-03-2014 11:30 AM)ndzied1 Wrote:  Maybe I will use this time to practice Textbook entry mode.

I think you just discovered HP's ultimate object - slowly disable that nasty RPN mode, one key at a time, until everyone is forced into Textbook mode or Algebraic mode (I am shuddering as I type this).

Bill

Hehe… in my case, it seems to be partially true. While I still love RPN calculators (my favorite being the HP48GX and HP42S), I have really enjoyed the Prime -- and never really even used the RPN mode in the Prime.

Graph 3D | QPI | SolveSys
12-04-2014, 05:53 AM
Post: #16
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,341 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-04-2014 01:56 AM)Han Wrote:
(12-04-2014 01:52 AM)Bill (Smithville NJ) Wrote:  I think you just discovered HP's ultimate object - slowly disable that nasty RPN mode, one key at a time, until everyone is forced into Textbook mode or Algebraic mode (I am shuddering as I type this).

Bill

Hehe… in my case, it seems to be partially true. While I still love RPN calculators (my favorite being the HP48GX and HP42S), I have really enjoyed the Prime -- and never really even used the RPN mode in the Prime.

Interesting idea...
It makes sense after all.
If one starts to get RPN improvements on new firmware releases, people soon will want more, like RPL. This would lead the Prime in the wrong direction.
Remember what is the target market for Prime.
Besides us old dogs, how many young people still use RPN these days anyway?

Obviously the Prime nature and goals are totally different, so I am not that shocked to find such a minor drawback in RPN mode.
But I agree that this is a frustrating situation. Look to the positive side of it: now we have a reason to wait for the next update!

Jose Mesquita

12-04-2014, 06:59 AM
Post: #17
 lenborje Member Posts: 53 Joined: Jul 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-04-2014 12:00 AM)Snorre Wrote:  But the user key solution is a two-keystroke-sequence (like [ENTER] [*]).
[x²] should behave like "SQ" (as in older HPs) and not like "^2".

No it isn't! Just leave the User keyboard ON permanently. (shift-User shift-User)

/Lennart Börjeson
Stockholm, Sweden
12-04-2014, 09:21 AM
Post: #18
 Angus Member Posts: 212 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
What does the target market has to do with rpn. Why are students supposed not to enjoy rpn? I was a student and i bet You, too.
I really don't get the point when talking about students and the fact that they have to have no need or desire for doing calculations using rpn.....
Has anything changed with mankind during the last 15 years?
12-04-2014, 11:21 AM
Post: #19
 DrD Senior Member Posts: 1,132 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-04-2014 09:21 AM)Angus Wrote:  Has anything changed with mankind during the last 15 years?

Unfortunately, the list is quite long, and in many ways, retrograde.
12-04-2014, 11:34 AM
Post: #20
 Snorre Member Posts: 101 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Major Bug in 2014 11 24(6940) RPN mode X^2
(12-04-2014 06:59 AM)lenborje Wrote:  No it isn't! Just leave the User keyboard ON permanently. (shift-User shift-User)

It's not exactly the same. With the old Square-Key I would do: [3] [x²] [4] [x²] [+] [√].
Operators were executed immediately (the fun-part of rpn).
Now I've to press [ENTER] at least once.
Even worse: You've to distinguish between an argument still in entry or an argument in register x while fast-entering some long computation.

IMO, a nice solution would be: beeing able to include "a press on [ENTER]" in user keys, i.e.
KEY K_Sq() BEGIN
"²"+CHAR(10); // or CHAR(13);
END;
or doing it by returning a list of key codes (not only one single number). Just a wish.
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