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HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
09-13-2014, 08:53 PM
Post: #21
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-13-2014 08:25 PM)jebem Wrote:  
(09-13-2014 07:45 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Have you considered a financial calc from the Pioneer series?
Damn it, my wife will kill me this time!
I have no more no less than 4 calculators coming in my direction next week, while I'm away in Brussels (I was notified to go just two days ago), so I have no way to hide my crimes this time.

HP-14B? Sure, why not, one more one less will not make such a big difference, I think Smile

I wasn't recommending the 14B, just saying that I found one with some pluses. There are more advanced business calcs in the old Pioneer series, like the 17BII, that can be found cheap.

Do you have a copy of A Guide to HP Handheld Calculators and Computers? An excellent reference when building one's collection. There are so many detailed differences within a series or even a particular model that I find it useful to do some research first. Of course the forum member's recommendations/comments are useful and entertaining, too.

Dave
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09-13-2014, 09:09 PM
Post: #22
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-13-2014 08:53 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  I wasn't recommending the 14B, just saying that I found one with some pluses. There are more advanced business calcs in the old Pioneer series, like the 17BII, that can be found cheap.

Do you have a copy of A Guide to HP Handheld Calculators and Computers? An excellent reference when building one's collection. There are so many detailed differences within a series or even a particular model that I find it useful to do some research first. Of course the forum member's recommendations/comments are useful and entertaining, too.

Dave

Thanks for the info, that book is a good recommendation for anyone in this hobby.
Probably it will be one of my next acquisitions too.

Clearly the 17BII can be found in quantities at a low prices in several sites besides the eBay, but the story with the 14B is different, so perhaps the latter is more valuable from a point of a collectors view.

Jose Mesquita
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09-14-2014, 09:59 AM
Post: #23
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
There's one 14B 50th AE for sale on ebay. $20 BIN, would have been mine if I were still collecting.
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09-14-2014, 02:06 PM
Post: #24
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-14-2014 09:59 AM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  There's one 14B 50th AE for sale on ebay. $20 BIN, would have been mine if I were still collecting.

Let's say I'm a scientific collector, but there are so many Pioneer models that I'm considering adding a token financial calc to my collection. Also, I'm a vintage guy and while I have some newer calcs in my collection, I'm only looking at the pre-10BII models. What would you recommend and why?

Dave
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09-14-2014, 02:34 PM
Post: #25
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-14-2014 02:06 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Let's say I'm a scientific collector, but there are so many Pioneer models that I'm considering adding a token financial calc to my collection. Also, I'm a vintage guy and while I have some newer calcs in my collection, I'm only looking at the pre-10BII models. What would you recommend and why?
From the era up to and including the Pioneers, I only have the 18C, 19B, 10B, and 17BII calculators, so others might give more reasonable recommendations.

If you do not insist on a Pioneer and RPN, get a 19B. It's the only financial model (before 20b and 10bII+) with trigs. Handling and especially the battery compartement might a problem, unfortunately.

The most interesting financial Pioneer is the 17BII, if you can live with nearly all functionality hidden in menus. It shares the equation editor/solver of the 19B(II) with the exception of trigs and the alphanumeric keyboard. But if you know the 27S already, you'll be familiar with the 17BII's solver. Of course, it has RPN also. If you want one, get a US or Singapore model with molded keyboard legends.

The 14B appears to be the rarest financial Pioneer, allthough not that rare. Quite common ist the 50th AE model among them. As a collector, I'd want one.
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09-14-2014, 04:00 PM
Post: #26
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-14-2014 02:06 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Let's say I'm a scientific collector, but there are so many Pioneer models that I'm considering adding a token financial calc to my collection. Also, I'm a vintage guy and while I have some newer calcs in my collection, I'm only looking at the pre-10BII models. What would you recommend and why?

I'll second Thomas's recommendation for the 17BII, which is undoubtedly the highest-end Pioneer business model -- but is also easy (and inexpensive) to obtain, due to the large quantities manufactured in its heyday. It is the only Pioneer business model with RPN; it superseded the 17B, which was algebraic-only, after HP was supposedly deluged with complaints that none of their new business calculators for the late 1980s (10B, 14B, 17B, 18C, 19B) were RPN. The 17B and 17BII were the only Pioneer business models with the solver, or with the higher-resolution pixelated LCD. They were also the only Pioneer business models with the IR LED link to the optional thermal printer.

John
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09-14-2014, 04:13 PM
Post: #27
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-14-2014 02:34 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  The most interesting financial Pioneer is the 17BII, if you can live with nearly all functionality hidden in menus. It shares the equation editor/solver of the 19B(II) with the exception of trigs and the alphanumeric keyboard.

There are actually a few differences between the 17B and 19B solvers. One such difference is that the 19B solver allows you to include TVM functions in solver expressions -- that is, functional descriptions of N, I%, PMT, PV, and FV in terms of the other quantities -- and have the solver do all the work in calculating the appropriate values. The 17B solver does not include these functions. (Though, of course, it still has TVM as a standalone capability.)

John
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09-14-2014, 04:59 PM
Post: #28
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
Thanks Thomas and John,

(09-14-2014 02:34 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  If you do not insist on a Pioneer and RPN, get a 19B. It's the only financial model (before 20b and 10bII+) with trigs. Handling and especially the battery compartement might a problem, unfortunately.

I still have my 28S and the case has some issues, so I'm familiar with the battery door problem. Plus, I never fell for the clamshell design. So Pioneer, yes; RPN, not necessarily.

(09-14-2014 02:34 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  The 14B appears to be the rarest financial Pioneer, allthough not that rare. Quite common ist the 50th AE model among them. As a collector, I'd want one.
(09-13-2014 07:45 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  I just picked up a 14B 50th Anniversary NOS at a good price.

The 17bII from Singapore is what I've been looking at. Thanks for the recommendations.

Dave
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09-14-2014, 05:37 PM
Post: #29
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
Here's one on eBay: HP-21S.
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09-14-2014, 08:19 PM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2014 08:27 PM by Tim Wessman.)
Post: #30
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-13-2014 10:23 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Quite so, especially with manual. Wink

As an interesting side note (maybe...), I stole the 10bII+ probabilities section (about 7 pages) used in the 10bII+ full manual directly from the 21S manual. So part of it at least is still living on today!

It is a bit interesting to see how they (the tech writers) insisted on changing some of the wording which reflects some on how the tone of the documents and style changed between the years.

Here's an image showing two pages side by side...
[Image: 10b_II_21s.png]

And another:
[Image: 10b_II_21s_2.png]

TW

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
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09-15-2014, 08:12 AM (This post was last modified: 09-15-2014 08:22 AM by ElectroDuende.)
Post: #31
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
It is quite scarce, yes. Anyway, you can find it in Ebay from time to time, at very uneven prices... the one that is now on auction starts at 99 (quite optimistic, I'm afraid), but if you look for ended auctions, you will find some sold at twenty-something.

I got mine, a very well preserved one, but with the slip case as only accesory, for $42 + $2 of shipping, three months ago, so I consider those 43 a very good price if manual and case are included. The manual is very rare, as it is said that this calculator was sold to educational market "in bulk" without them; anyway, it is easy to find scanned copies online.

I have in my "TO-DO" list, a recreation of the even rarer guide for the use of the included programs (pretty difficult to use without it), that was a foldable sheet that can be teared from the manual, as the scanned copy has very little quatility to be printed. I promise to share.
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09-15-2014, 09:08 AM
Post: #32
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-15-2014 08:12 AM)ElectroDuende Wrote:  I got mine, a very well preserved one, but with the slip case as only accesory, for $42 + $2 of shipping, three months ago, so I consider those 43 a very good price if manual and case are included. The manual is very rare, as it is said that this calculator was sold to educational market "in bulk" without them; anyway, it is easy to find scanned copies online.

That's about what I'd be willing to pay for one these days. The one I've got was a little bit cheaper but that was quite a while ago.


Quote:I have in my "TO-DO" list, a recreation of the even rarer guide for the use of the included programs (pretty difficult to use without it), that was a foldable sheet that can be teared from the manual, as the scanned copy has very little quatility to be printed. I promise to share.

This would be absolutely fantastic. Those programs are amazing but incomprehensible to most. I've still not gone into any real depth studying them.


I almost wish we'd done something similar to these in the 34S. The TVM code is similar and a great beginning but there is so much more that could have been done. Keystroke programs are extremely space efficient and can be very powerful.


- Pauli
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09-15-2014, 06:01 PM
Post: #33
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-15-2014 08:12 AM)ElectroDuende Wrote:  I have in my "TO-DO" list, a recreation of the even rarer guide for the use of the included programs (pretty difficult to use without it), that was a foldable sheet that can be teared from the manual, as the scanned copy has very little quatility to be printed. I promise to share.

I have a new one and would be happy to scan and post it when I return from HHC next week. Someone please remind me as it'll be gone (from my mind) after all that HHC-ing. I should be able to get to this by next Thursday, 25 Sept.

I'll scan at 300 dpi and save as PDF files (front and rear) unless someone thinks otherwise would be better, in which case suggest the better plan.

--Bob Prosperi
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09-15-2014, 07:35 PM
Post: #34
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
For those who can't wait: HP-21S Owner's Manual

Enjoy
Thomas
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09-15-2014, 07:35 PM
Post: #35
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
Meanwhile, I can confirm the HP-21S Owner's Manual is contained in the Museum DVD in English and German, including said program card. No need for a new scan IMHO.

d:-)

I'd regret if this post takes longer to pass censorship than you need for scanning. Would be quite some work in vain. Confused
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09-18-2014, 04:19 AM
Post: #36
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-14-2014 09:59 AM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  There's one 14B 50th AE for sale on ebay. $20 BIN, would have been mine if I were still collecting.

I picked up one for exactly that price. Quite lucky.... that was a few weeks ago. Shame the shipping to the other side of the world adds so much to the cost!
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09-18-2014, 01:15 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2014 01:17 PM by Geoff Quickfall.)
Post: #37
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
There will be a functional 20s on the prize table at HHC2014, courtesy of Gene. I had to fix the pressure pad contact foam though!

Geoff
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10-03-2014, 05:27 PM
Post: #38
RE: HP-21S - Is it a rarity?
(09-18-2014 01:15 PM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  There will be a functional 20s on the prize table at HHC2014, courtesy of Gene. I had to fix the pressure pad contact foam though!

Geoff

Hi Geoff,
What procedure would you recommend to fix the same issue but on a HP-21S?
I have this nice machine but it won't power on or register most of the keys except when I press the dial above the kB.
Thanks.

Jose Mesquita
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