Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
09-10-2014, 10:29 PM
Post: #1
 Richard Wagner Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Aug 2014
Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
As if not having GRAD was bad enough, there has been another annoyance about HP PRIME discovered:

Lack of ability to directly enter so-called GPS coordinates; instead dd, mm, and ss.sss are ALL required before a hexadecimal value conversion can be displayed!

42 degs 17 mins 50 seconds, "DMS format", can also be represented by:
42 degs 17.833333333 mins, which I am calling "GPS Format"

I am looking for a clever way to efficiently enter "GPS Format" using a single variable if possible! (This is how my Casio fx9860GII, and OLDER-GENERATION! calculator handles it).

HP PRIME forces us to use 2 variables for every "GPS Pair" right now.
(although an optimal way of accomplishing this might be possible, I don't have it yet)

Consider this, and easily verified:
On Casio fx9860GII (and CG10), this actually works!
OPTN, > (more), ANGL, 4th option over for D|M|S entry,

42<ANGL>17.83333<ANGL> ENTER --> 42.29722222

42<ANGL>17.83333<ANGL>0<ANGL> --> 42.29722222

When dealing with Radio/TV Direction Finding, Boating, Aircraft, and other navigation problems, we are given coordinates solely in GPS_Format! HP PRIME requires I use intermediate steps, or my fx9860 FIRST, just to accommodate HP PRIME's limitations!

Casio's Deg/Min/Sec manual data-entry format seems to UNDERSTAND how to
cope with "GPS Format".

Caveat: Try this with Negative Degrees, or Minutes :-)

Oh! And guess what! Casio fx9860GII (and LOOK! even CG10 !!) are
"whole calculators" in that they still have their GRAD mode!
DEG/RAD/GRA are available in SETUP !! It was never short-changed!

I see no way right now on an HP PRIME to avoid using TWO VARIABLES for every
single GPS_Cooridate needed.... Even using a FOR-LOOP ? Sheesh. 9860 just takes it!

Golly.... Gee Batman! Even TI-nspire has GRAD? What were THEY thinking that HP PRIME could not also see? Makes you wonder what else is removed, given limitations, or otherwise seen as pedantic, obsolete or otherwise passe just because HP PRIME developers are not actually in the field where these calculators could potentially be used!

Now where'd I put that FORTRAN manual....
09-11-2014, 01:36 AM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2014 01:37 AM by Joe Horn.)
Post: #2
 Joe Horn Senior Member Posts: 1,767 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
(09-10-2014 10:29 PM)Richard Wagner Wrote:  As if not having GRAD was bad enough, there has been another annoyance about HP PRIME discovered:

Lack of ability to directly enter so-called GPS coordinates; instead dd, mm, and ss.sss are ALL required before a hexadecimal value conversion can be displayed!

42 degs 17 mins 50 seconds, "DMS format", can also be represented by:
42 degs 17.833333333 mins, which I am calling "GPS Format"

I am looking for a clever way to efficiently enter "GPS Format" using a single variable if possible! (This is how my Casio fx9860GII, and OLDER-GENERATION! calculator handles it).

HP PRIME forces us to use 2 variables for every "GPS Pair" right now.
(although an optimal way of accomplishing this might be possible, I don't have it yet)

Here's one method for entering 42° 17.8333333333' which is horribly ugly but which works:

42 [ ° ' " ] + 17.8333333333 * 0 [ ° ' " ] 1
--> 42°17'50"

Can anybody discover a method that takes fewer keystrokes?

EDIT: Here's one: 42 [ ° ' " ] + 17.8333333333 / 60
--> 42°17'50"

<0|ɸ|0>
-Joe-
09-11-2014, 02:21 AM
Post: #3
 oldhpfan Junior Member Posts: 17 Joined: Sep 2014
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
I was going to suggest just multiplying the fractional portion (.8333333333) by 60 then entering that as the seconds but Joe combined it into one line. Joe's first method doesn't seem to work in RPN (not sure what to do with the '1') but the second one does just hit enter after entering the degrees then add then divide...nice but not as easy as the CASIO .

Not sure how you would do this in a program though, except as you say use two variables for each number. Or store them in a list or matrix and access them that way; if you want the program to ask for them you could just take the input as a string and parse it in the program (if you want to bother with the effort)...or provide two places one to enter the degrees one for the decimal minutes/seconds and multiply the fraction by 60 to get the seconds and go from there.

I remember needing grads a couple of times in college (in math class), I don't imagine the problems have changed in the last 30 years, or maybe I'm just archaic like gradians supposedly are I guess they are just gon for good .
09-11-2014, 02:59 AM
Post: #4
 Richard Wagner Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Aug 2014
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
Practicing with actual Prime (not emulator), I discover that unlike TI-nspire, unlike Casio, D|M|S is apparently utterly useless (ignored) during a Prime INPUT Statement (running in an actual program):

Which is better?
Consciously remembering to enter Deg, press +, Min.mmmmm, and remembering to always terminate with "/60"
42 + 17.83333 / (watch things move around) 60, then ENTER
(it is true that it is merely a numerical value, we only treat it as an angle later)

[are we missing something here....?]

_or_

manually directly enter

Degs, D|M|S key, Min.mmmmmm D|M|S key ENTER
42 o 17.8333333 o ENTER
Works in Direct Calculator mode, or when RUN from a PROGRAM !!

Me thinks I'll be encouraging Casio CG10 users to appreciate what they have, and how easy they have it when it comes to Programming!

I finally got used to my Casio's. That took time. But as I compare with HP PRIME, I see that simple fundamental operations like these, which I use most often, are now going to expect taking drastic extra steps if I decide to port things to HP PRIME;
(and HP PRIME does not even have GRAD for crying out loud)!

If you own a Casio CG10, fx9860, or even their high-end 115ES Plus, you have more power in your hands then you know! Thats my 2 cents worth.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I am still learning how to use my HP PRIME, but frankly, I could be more impressed with some common-sense things that I just do not see available, have been removed, or re-worked in some way. But I'm trying to get familiar with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------
09-11-2014, 04:56 AM
Post: #5
 patrice Member Posts: 184 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
just an idea.
Why not take advantage of Prime features? program and user keyboard !

- create your own DMS function to handle it. lets call it DMM.
and all you have to type is DMM(42.178333)

the program should be something lke
Code:
EXPORT DMM(A) BEGIN RETURN HMS→(IP(A)+FP(A)*100/60); END;

or you can Define simply a User Function
[Shift Define] DMM [Enter]
HMS→(IP(A)+FP(A)*100/60) [Enter]

- use the user keys as a typing shortcut to save keys in DMM or to call your function directly with Ans.
do it the way you find more comfortable with.

Patrice
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.” Albert Einstein
09-11-2014, 12:38 PM
Post: #6
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
(09-11-2014 02:21 AM)oldhpfan Wrote:  ...I guess they are just gon for good .

Sadly, I think this excellent little piece of well crafted wit was lost in the entusiasm to find a better programming solution. Just a brief note to let you know I appreciated it.

--Bob Prosperi
09-11-2014, 12:48 PM
Post: #7
 Paul Dale Senior Member Posts: 1,715 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
The prime isn't short of memory and is programmable. Write a brief program to do exactly what you want. Then use that.

- Pauli
09-11-2014, 04:27 PM
Post: #8
 Richard Wagner Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Aug 2014
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
Thank you every one for your useful suggestions.
Thank you also for tolerating my banter on HP Prime features.
(I wish I had been a beta tester! That would of been interesting!)

I have decided on a solution which uses just a single numerical entry for Lat, and Long, and let program internally work it out.

Problem is this is still requiring a modification to _existing_ (Casio) programs which I have gotten used to being able to perform the required Sexagesimal conversion on the fly at time of direct input statement entry.... without having to worry about additional floating-point roulette along the way.

But now I can get on with it :-)

[Petition HP Prime Developers to please restore Grad to Trig Features; and enhance Deg/Min/Sec to accept GPS_Format, at as do other calculators (and not just Casio).

Of course this would involve _allowing_ D|M|S operation to actually be operative during INPUT statements, which is foolishly disabled in this Firmware version.
I can only shudder at what other useful command-line options also no longer function during INPUT operations.

To mentally juggle having to adapt data-entry across calculators...I'll start to need cue-cards. :-)
09-11-2014, 05:26 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2014 05:59 PM by Richard Wagner.)
Post: #9
 Richard Wagner Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Aug 2014
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
Instead of relying on availability of DMS conversion using o|'|" key strokes,
defining some PROGRAM-style FUNCTIONs which will probably suffice for now, as long as I don't encounter any more expression-restrictions associated with Function-entry level, or INPUT entry level. I have not fully compared these two yet.

This is what I have learned today:
If you define a Program that expects a Variable-for-input,
THEN use of o|'|" works from the command line;

what does NOT work, is when INPUT statement from a program is used!
then o|'|" is inhibited (along with goodness knows what).

Trial and error, and progress shall be ours! :-)

Pressing 'Toolbox/Menu' button then 'User' does list my Programs (Procedures (taking no direct arguments), and Functions (requiring user-provided values or variables),
and these CAN apparently be NESTED in any direction!

Really not that different than Casio's handling of their functions vs programs apparently.
09-11-2014, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2014 05:32 PM by jebem.)
Post: #10
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,341 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Help with G.P.S. Coordinates!
(09-11-2014 04:27 PM)Richard Wagner Wrote:  [Petition HP Prime Developers to please restore Grad to Trig Features; and enhance Deg/Min/Sec to accept GPS_Format, at as do other calculators (and not just Casio).

Of course this would involve _allowing_ D|M|S operation to actually be operative during INPUT statements, which is foolishly disabled in this Firmware version.
I can only shudder at what other useful command-line options also no longer function during INPUT operations.

We have this site to post suggestions and bugs.