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HP Prime
09-22-2014, 05:55 PM
Post: #41
RE: HP Prime
Save results in 'Notes' or 'Info'.

The result of any calculation may be saved and reused from any one of the many 'Info' pages associated with Apps or in a 'Note'. 'Copy' and 'Paste' are more powerful than they seem--individual stack entries may be copied and pasted in the command line or elsewhere.
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05-24-2015, 07:07 PM
Post: #42
RE: HP Prime
I have to say that I was surprised by the references to the language being like Pascal.

Having used Pascal for over a year, I see little similarity. My own thoughts are that one is likely to get more benefit from a general programming text using English-like pseudo code than by getting bogged down in Pascal syntax (whilst your goal is to generate PPL rather than learning Pascal).

Until reading such references to PPL being Pascal-like, I had assumed it was vaguely like BASIC - with many new features, but unfortunately without the GOTO - so I can forget typing in all those old BBC BASIC listings :-)

Stephen Lewkowicz (G1CMZ)
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08-30-2017, 05:00 PM
Post: #43
RE: HP Prime
I'm very grateful for all the assistance I've received from the HP Forum, some of which referenced posts on this site. Still I'd have to agree that the HP Prime Manual is inadequate.

For that reason I posted a (so-far unanswered) post on the HP Forum "Calling Chris Coffin". Back in the day, I learned more from his book about the HP48GX than from the HP Manual, and that manual was superior to the Manual for the HP Prime.

I guess calculators are just not a priority for HP these days.
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08-31-2017, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017 07:53 AM by toml_12953.)
Post: #44
RE: HP Prime
(05-24-2015 07:07 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  Until reading such references to PPL being Pascal-like, I had assumed it was vaguely like BASIC - with many new features, but unfortunately without the GOTO - so I can forget typing in all those old BBC BASIC listings :-)

The old BASIC programs are easily converted to PPL, except for graphics statements perhaps. If the BASIC program was written in a straightforward manner, it's not a hard task. Below is one of the hardest challenges I've had. The example is from Problems for Computer Solution by Stephen J Rogowski. The BASIC is a mess but even that program was eventually translated with all the GOTOs spaghetti eliminated.

Original Program:
Code:
10 DIM X(126),K(2)
20 DEF FNA(X,Y,Z)=X*SIN(Y*0.01745329)*Z-16*Z^2
30 PRINT "INPUT MUZZLE VELOCITY (FT/SEC) AND ANGLE (DEGREES)"
40 LET F2=0
50 INPUT M,A
60 LET X(0)=0
70 FOR T=0.2 TO 25 STEP 0.2
80    LET L=INT(5*T+0.001)
90    LET X(L)=FNA(M,A,T)
100    IF X(L)<0 THEN GOTO 150
110    IF X(L)-X(L-1)<=0 AND F2=0 THEN GOTO 250 ELSE GOTO 350
120    LET K(1)=X(L-2)
130    LET W4=T-0.4+J
140    GOTO 280
150    LET W=L-1
160    FOR J=0.01 TO 0.2 STEP 0.01
170       LET K(1)=FNA(M,A,T-0.2+J)
180       IF K(1)<0 THEN GOTO 200
190    NEXT J
200    PRINT "MAXIMUM HEIGHT IS ";K1;" FEET"
210    LET Y=M*COS(A*0.01745329)*(T-0.2+J-0.01)
220    PRINT "RANGE IS ";Y;" FEET"
230    PRINT "TOTAL TIME AIRBORNE IS ";T+J-0.01;" SECONDS"
240    GOTO 360
250    IF X(L-1)-X(L-2)<X(L)-X(L-1) THEN GOTO 120
260    LET K(1)=X(L-1)
270    LET W4=T-0.2+J
280    LET F2=1
290    FOR J=0.01 TO 0.2 STEP 0.01
300       LET K(2)=FNA(M,A,W4)
310       IF K(1)-K(2)<=0 THEN GOTO 340
320       LET K(1)=K(2)
330    NEXT J
340    LET K1=MAX(K(1),K(2))
350 NEXT T
360 IF K1+11>60 THEN GOTO 470 ELSE LET M1=1
370 FOR D=1 TO 62
380    PRINT TAB(11+D);"+";
390 NEXT D
395 PRINT
400 PRINT "0";TAB(12);"+"
410 FOR N=1 TO W
420    PRINT ROUND(0.2*N*M*COS(A*0.01745329),4);TAB(12);"+";TAB(X(N)*M1+12);"*"
430 NEXT N
440 PRINT "ANYMORE (YES OR NO)";
450 INPUT A$ 
460 IF A$="YES" THEN GOTO 30 ELSE GOTO 500
470 LET M1=1/(INT(K1/60+1))
480 PRINT "SCALE OF HEIGHT IS 1 SPACE = ";1/M1;" FEET"
490 GOTO 370
500 END

PPL:
Code:
FNA(X,Y,Z)
BEGIN
  RETURN X*SIN(Y*0.01745329)*Z-16*Z^2;
END;

EXPORT PROJECTILE()
BEGIN
  LOCAL X,K,F2,W4,K1,ANS,M1,TMP;
  HFormat:=1; HDigits:=4; //Set number mode to Fixed 4
  X:=MAKELIST(0,C,0,126);K:=MAKELIST(0,C,0,2);
  PRINT();
  //REPEAT
    F2:=0;
    INPUT({M,A},"MUZZLE VELOCITY AND ANGLE",{"FT/SEC: ","DEGREES: "});
    X(0):=0;
    FOR T:=0.2 TO 25 STEP 0.2 DO
      L:=IP(5*T+0.001);
      X(L):=FNA(M,A,T);
      IF X(L)<0 THEN 
        BREAK;
      END;
      IF X(L)-X(L-1)<=0 AND F2=0 THEN
        IF X(L-1)-X(L-2)<X(L)-X(L-1) THEN 
          K(1):=X(L-2);
          W4:=T-0.4+J;
        ELSE
          K(1):=X(L-1);
          W4:=T-0.2+J;
        END;
        F2:=1;
        FOR J:=0.01 TO 0.2 STEP 0.01 DO
          K(2):=FNA(M,A,W4);
          IF K(1)-K(2)<=0 THEN 
            BREAK;
          END;
          K(1):=K(2);
        END;
        K1:=MAX(K(1),K(2));
      END;
    END;
    W:=L-1;
    FOR J:=0.01 TO 0.2 STEP 0.01 DO
      K(1):=FNA(M,A,T-0.2+J);
      IF K(1)<0 THEN 
        BREAK;
      END;  
    END;
    PRINT("MAXIMUM HEIGHT IS "+K1+" FEET");
    Y:=M*COS(A*0.01745329)*(T-0.2+J-0.01);
    PRINT("RANGE IS "+Y+" FEET");
    PRINT("TOTAL TIME AIRBORNE IS "+(T+J-0.01)+" SECONDS");
    IF K1+14>60 THEN 
      M1:=1/(IP(K1/60+1));
      PRINT("SCALE OF HEIGHT IS 1 SPACE = "+(1/M1)+" FEET");
    ELSE 
      M1:=1;
    END;
    TMP=TAB(14);
    FOR D:=1 TO 30 DO
      TMP:=TMP+"+";
    END;
    PRINT(TMP);
    PRINT("0"+TAB(14)+"+");
    FOR N:=1 TO W DO  
      PRINT(0.2*N*M*COS(A*0.01745329)+" +"+TAB(X(N)*M1)+"*");
    END;
    //INPUT({{ANS,[2]}},"ANYMORE (YES OR NO)?"); 
  //UNTIL UPPER(ANS) == "NO";
  HFormat:=0; // Set number mode back to Standard
END;

TAB Program:
Code:
EXPORT TAB(X)
BEGIN
  LOCAL I,T;
  T:="";
  FOR I:=1 TO X DO
    T:=T+" ";
  END;
  RETURN T;
END;

Tom L

People may say I'm inept but I consider myself to be totally ept.
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08-31-2017, 09:59 AM
Post: #45
RE: HP Prime
(08-30-2014 04:51 PM)gbh Wrote:  Yes, this works.

Could I have figured this out from the (wholly inadequate) manual? I doubt it. I can find no mention of enclosing variables in single quotes, in the chapter (22) on Variables, or elsewhere. Just to be sure I searched the entire manual PDF in Acrobat.

Just to be definite, the manual is a joke. Many important topics are not covered or even mentioned, and many of those that are covered are not in the skimpy index.

Thanks for your help.

It is impossible to write a manual for everyone or every situation. Thompson Learning, now Cengage, contracted me to write a Guide for 26 of their Intermediate Algebra, College Algebra and Trigonometry, and Precalculus textbooks for traditional solutions plus TI 83/84, TI 85/86, TI89/TI92+/Voyager 200 solutions and by the way we would like some Excel examples. The Guide was found as part of the CD that accompanied their textbook. I had just written Thompson Learning’s TI calculator Guide and WebCT/Blackboard course packs for each book in Tan’s series of Finite Math and Applied Calculus textbooks.

Today, with both pretty input and output of the HP Prime and TI-Nspire CAS and kindle eBooks on the HP Prime and TI-Nspire to supplement the manuals, everyone can learn algebra. Used right, HP CAS is a great learning tools plus HP Home view is of great value as well. With the HP Prime FREE and low-cost HP Prime Pro app on their phone or tablet there is no excuse for everyone not to succeed in math.

If you want to get started with the HP Prime or need to polish up your Algebra Skills take a quick look at my new eBook. It covers traditional solutions and HP Prime solutions while you learn the features of your HP Prime.
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08-31-2017, 12:22 PM
Post: #46
RE: HP Prime
(08-30-2014 04:51 PM)gbh Wrote:  >> Just to be definite, the manual is a joke. Many important topics are not covered or even mentioned, and many of those that are covered are not in the skimpy index.

(08-31-2017 09:59 AM)lschroeder1947 Wrote:  >> It is impossible to write a manual for everyone or every situation.

Between these two endpoints, vast, underpopulated, territory remains uncharted ...

-Dale-
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08-31-2017, 08:49 PM
Post: #47
RE: HP Prime
(08-31-2017 09:59 AM)lschroeder1947 Wrote:  It is impossible to write a manual for everyone or every situation.
Larry,
In my whole life I never encountered a manual "written for everyone or every situation", and I never heard of somebody trying to do so (I am part of an eternal discussion with my IT-providers about the quality of the documentation and, yes, the user's guides to be (!)- sometimes... - delivered; of course, the everlasting point is, what could be done and what is impossible to be written down or what is even contraproductive - "the system changes so fast we cannot keep pace..."; "should we have to mention that the computer has to be switched on?" - you know these discussions.

Manuals are, and I think that we share the same opinion, special and strange species. They should, at least, in a sense reflect the very heart of their topic. In my humble opinion, the current version of the Prime's user's guide will not do so. The Prime is a higly integrated machine; the user's guide seems to be more or less on the side of disintegration. I learned that the irritations about the user's guide are as old as the Prime itself. I would't excavatate that stuff. The Prime's build-in help is very useful (thak you, folks). So is this forum. Thirty years ago, without fora, you were 100 % dependend on printed documention; maybe times do change faster then we are able to perceive.

Hans

P. S. Starting with my Prime, the first week I was about ten times a day to trow it on the garbage heap (Dizzy Gillespie's one, as mentioned by Sonny Rollins - you might know Dissy's joke about this).

H.
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09-01-2017, 10:26 AM
Post: #48
RE: HP Prime
(08-31-2017 08:49 PM)Hans S. Wrote:  Larry,
In my whole life I never encountered a manual "written for everyone or every situation"

Hans S.,
Every situation – probably should have said guide available anytime or anywhere

We wrote our guide (manual) that looks like a traditional book’s page, works and looks the same on all devices plus available on multiple devices anytime or anywhere. Kindle, iBooks, and Google Play books with graphics set to displays at 95% (screenshots, Mathtype, HP Prime notepad++ program listings, artwork, etc.) of column width and selection of an appropriate font size can do this. See the Kindle's Look Inside or download a sample of my HP Prime Algebra Fundamentals eBook to see an example of this technique. There is no one app to accomplish this but process is not that hard.

Everyone – probably should have said guide is written all junior high or older math students or individual wanting to learn or refresh algebra skills

HP with availability of the HP Prime Free theoretically did make it possible for the above students or individuals to use our guide. Traditional non-math or non-science oriented students or individuals 95% of the time will use their HP Prime calculator, Free, or Pro app at the systems level. Whether it be CAS to check their manual solutions or aid in its solution; HOME to work numerical problems; using the graphing, statistics, or solve Application apps; or Define key to enter their own function. The other 5% is where programming comes in. For traditional math and science students the programming percentage will likely be much higher.
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09-01-2017, 11:55 AM
Post: #49
RE: HP Prime
HP documentation, or 'your' guide, when you state, "probably should have said," IS the problem. Clearly guides don't know about any undiscovered errors, future hp releases, new commands, changes to existing commands, or commands that may have been "turned on/off" in interim releases.

It's great to have this forum to share these ideas. It's very helpful that the authors are willing resolve issues, although the process of delivering "fixes" could be improved, using the online resources.
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09-01-2017, 07:18 PM
Post: #50
RE: HP Prime
(09-01-2017 11:55 AM)DrD Wrote:  It's great to have this forum (...)

The shortened citation brings, IMHO, the whole discussion to a point: Without this forum, my Prime most probably already would have landed on a garbage heap (let it be Sonny's in Georgia, Dizzy's in South Carolina, or mine in Stetten im Remstal). With this forum, I just decided to order a second one, with the better keypad of course.

This behavior of mine could be called strange: Think about having purchased a brand new Mercedes-Benz, just to find out that essential properties won't work as they should. So, go ahead and buy another one? - And HP was the Mercedes of calculators. How would you call this? At least a behavior near to the Stockholm syndrome, I would assume.

I own a TI 200 Voyage, I bought, for comparision reasons, some Casios (CG-400, CG-50 (the new one) and CG-991 DE X), (and I shall also buy a TI inspire, only to satisfy my own curiosity). All of these have some good ideas implemented (about the Inspire I'll see, but I don't expect great surprise), but as a whole, none of them could compare with the Prime. Yes, its behavior sometimes seems to be cumbersome, and at a first glance it is hard to use. But the more time I spend, the better things are running. The issues of the Prime were easily outrivaled by its advantages. It is the neatest device I ever owned.

Best regards,

Hans
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09-02-2017, 10:00 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2017 10:05 AM by lschroeder1947.)
Post: #51
RE: HP Prime
Hans S.,

Make sure you buy the TI-Nspire CX CAS for comparison purposes. You can download the Virtual software version of it for a 30 day trial.

For Cengage publishing, I authored the Brooks/Cole Math Tools Guide for TI 84, TI86, and TI89 families of calculators. The follow-up TI-Nspire and HP Prime companion ebooks, TI-Nspire Guide Algebra Fundamentals and HP Prime Guide Algebra Fundamentals are available on Kindle readers and apps. Hans, at the Computer Learning Service website there is a two chapter sample of the TI-Nspire version plus links to amazon’s HP Prime sample that you may find useful.

For me, all three with their CAS and programming capabilities give students and individuals learning or refreshing their algebra a powerful tool that can help them reach their goals. I guess because I just bought the new keypad version for my granddaughter I prefer the HP Prime Calculator. I also love the HP Prime Free and low-cost HP Prime Pro apps.

Dr D,

My HP Guide Algebra Fundamentals was designed to be like the explanation part of traditional textbooks but based on the premise that the HP Prime was part of the explanation not a secondary factor. Unlike a traditional textbook it is interactive with self checking exercises plus links to information on the web and forums like this. For each sections exercise set of problems you will need a textbook or online source of problems to practice your traditional and HP Prime skills.

One good thing about eBooks vs traditional books is cost and publishing cycle. Unlike textbooks 3-year edition cycle to make the publisher money, eBook cycle can be based on the amount of information in the eBook that needs to be updated. In ebooks like the HP Guide Algebra Fundamentals new editions would only be needed when the outdated information in the text could no longer be served by ERRATA information at the publisher site. Thanks Dr. D for making me think of ways to keep current until a new edition is published. Personally, I would like to update amazon version and they allow previous purchasers the option to update, but that is not amazon’s policy.
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09-02-2017, 11:21 AM
Post: #52
RE: HP Prime
Something that is showing up in our family, and might be a feature of the future, is online education. Our granddaughter is taking an online public high school curriculum this year, which is hard for me to reconcile. In any event, she attends actual class room attendance only two days per week, and, (I guess), there is some online way that she is monitored during the three other days she spends at home.

I try to manage my math skills as much as my old pea brain allows by using online (free) courses; so I get how that 'could' work. There is something missing at a social interaction level, that is left out of her total educational package, with online studies. How will that manifest itself in the future? Lord only knows. Testing will reveal how attentive she is to the coursework, so if she is successful, great.

If not, she claims that she can attend physical classes, or review online tutorials, etc. I am skeptical about this level of independence, for her age (15 years old). For example, a business run without a manager is likely to have problems following the business model, with employees independently working from home. She will be quick to say that there is oversight. So the devil will be in the final outcome, at the end of the year.

As far as ebook publishing is concerned, it would certainly be easier to update online what would otherwise be a lengthy addendum cycle for hard copy published works.

I guess we are turning the corner on the means of education these days. What's next? Perhaps ROM implants, with neural connectivity? Are we really only programmed robots under alien control? (Ancient alien theorists say, "Yes!" ...)
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