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I love MoHPC!
03-31-2021, 12:32 AM
Post: #41
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-30-2021 02:05 PM)BINUBALL Wrote:  After a few times, I discovered MoHPC Sans is same as Open Sans, MoHPC Keys is same as Source Code Pro. So I think we can use these fonts freely.
Please check out two links below. They looked like actually same font.
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Source...0computing
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Open+S...s%20(1972)
In CSS, We can change font's name whatever you want.

The typefaces look similar, but the font files are very different. For example,
MoHPC Sans Regular TTF contains 350 characters, including Unicode 21D4 "left right double arrow" shaped like the "greater than over less than" in HP's old X<>Y keys. It also contains Unicode 2221 "Measured Angle" character which HP uses a lot.
Open Sans Regular TTF contains 883 characters, and does NOT include any of the above-mentioned characters.

Missing from both fonts is HP's almost-ubiquitous "x-bar" (average) character, which is not surprising, since that character does not exist in Unicode at all, strange to tell.

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03-31-2021, 01:37 AM
Post: #42
RE: I love MoHPC!
I think the new look is nice, very clean, and especially the fonts... But one thing I don't like at all: the giant side margins. If the window is wide, why not make use of that width?

It's not as bad as some sites, that have a truly fixed width and will have a horizontal scroll bar when the window is made too narrow to fit that width. At least the new MoHPC style doesn't do that. But it seems like a shame not to use extra width if it's available.
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03-31-2021, 06:51 AM
Post: #43
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-31-2021 01:37 AM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  I think the new look is nice, very clean, and especially the fonts... But one thing I don't like at all: the giant side margins. If the window is wide, why not make use of that width?
As a counterpoint, please don't create long lines of text. That's usually the consequence of not limiting the width of the main text area. Long lines are hard to read, which is why most modern styles, even minimal styles, don't deliver long lines. Even in wide windows.

It might be that a wide window can be well-populated without long lines: by using width for images, or a two column layout. But both of those are probably more work.
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03-31-2021, 10:04 AM
Post: #44
RE: I love MoHPC!
I like the new style too but as Thomas I would prefer to have a slightly larger text area, for instance as large as the embedded pictures on this page.

J-F
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03-31-2021, 10:39 AM
Post: #45
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-31-2021 10:04 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I like the new style too but as Thomas I would prefer to have a slightly larger text area, for instance as large as the embedded pictures on this page.

J-F

I wholeheartedly agree.

Greetings,
    Massimo

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03-31-2021, 12:45 PM
Post: #46
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-31-2021 10:04 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I like the new style too but as Thomas I would prefer to have a slightly larger text area, for instance as large as the embedded pictures on this page.

J-F

Me too! JFG's example seems to show this extra width can be easily accommodated in the current design. This small change will make reading on a full screen easier/more convenient, while still working well on mobile.

The new style/design/fonts are delightful, easy on the eyes, modern, comfortable.

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03-31-2021, 01:06 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2021 12:47 AM by BINUBALL.)
Post: #47
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-31-2021 10:04 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I like the new style too but as Thomas I would prefer to have a slightly larger text area, for instance as large as the embedded pictures on this page.

J-F
So, I tried increasing the width of the text from 36em to 50em using the console. Here is the result.
   

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03-31-2021, 06:34 PM
Post: #48
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-31-2021 06:51 AM)EdS2 Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 01:37 AM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  I think the new look is nice, very clean, and especially the fonts... But one thing I don't like at all: the giant side margins. If the window is wide, why not make use of that width?

As a counterpoint, please don't create long lines of text.

This is on a 1366x768 screen:

[Image: new-mohpc.png]
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04-01-2021, 03:44 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2021 04:00 AM by Dave Hicks.)
Post: #49
RE: I love MoHPC!
Here's my screen shot. This was one of the main reasons for the update. The museum was fine in 1995 when most screens were 800x600, and people didn't necessarily use all of that for just a browser window, but on today's big screens it created overly long lines, unless you really shrunk the browser window. (I find other results such as: 9-12 words, 40-55 characters, 45-55 characters, 45–90 characters, 65-75 but you can get away with 85…) The museum is now at about ~74 characters per line.

   

This reminds me a bit about discussions with my parents about letterbox movies not using their whole screen. And then their TV broke and they had to get a 16:9 TV and I thought that would help with the letterbox. But the first time I visited, I realized they still had analog 4:3 analog cable, and they used the stretch function to make that fill their 16:9 screen. So I guess opinions vary on how important using the whole screen is. Perhaps this is why some sites use 3 column layouts even if the outer columns contain nothing really useful.
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04-01-2021, 08:05 AM
Post: #50
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-31-2021 06:51 AM)EdS2 Wrote:  ... most modern styles, even minimal styles, don't deliver long lines. Even in wide windows.
For the benefit of the casual reader, my linked example landed on 70ch as the best width for readability. 74 characters, then, isn't too extreme.

It certainly does seem like the letterboxed video difficulty: some people want a certain aesthetic, other people want to minimise unused space, and there are positions in between.

There are various ways to render web pages 'readable', and one application is to declutter the modern web, another is to render readable very old-school pages which didn't anticipate today's window sizes. (Personally I use instapaper, but outline dot com is another. On iOS and in Firefox there's often a 'readable view' to select.)
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04-01-2021, 03:24 PM
Post: #51
RE: I love MoHPC!
I've seen this issue in certain print publications wherein small typeface and long lines make you shift focus from the left to the right when reading. The result is often that your eye fails to naturally catch the next line when you return to the left. You unavoidably repeat the same line or skip ahead. This is similar in nature to optimal viewing distance for a television screen. If you want to fill the screen of a large display, it seems better to zoom to width than runout a paragraph to one or two long lines.

Remember kids, "In a democracy, you get the government you deserve."
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04-01-2021, 04:02 PM
Post: #52
RE: I love MoHPC!
[Image: MoHPC-window.png]

<musing> One of the reasons that "windows" were invented was to give users complete control over the width of text lines on their screens. The text above is easy to read because I didn't make the window full-screen. Why expect web designers to anticipate everybody's preferences when you already have the power to adjust things to your own preferences? Which is easier: to push for your whole neighborhood to be carpeted, or to put on a pair of slippers? </musing>

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04-02-2021, 07:34 AM
Post: #53
RE: I love MoHPC!
Indeed, Joe, before CSS, that was very much the only way.

But now, every link I view, every tab I open, every new window, is the same size until and unless I adjust it. I find it more convenient if every web page displays well in that size of window.

(The link I gave to a minimal design gives us just 58 bytes of CSS, which can of course be included in the HTML head section, to make any site render nicely.)
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04-03-2021, 06:30 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2021 06:34 PM by Jonathan Busby.)
Post: #54
RE: I love MoHPC!
I think the new design is great! Smile One suggestion though : On the benchmarks page, could you add some Javascript so that one can sort rows of the table which correspond to specific calculators and benchmark code by any one ( except for perhaps the name column ) of the columns? I think that would make the page perfect. Smile

Thanks and regards,

Jonathan

P.S. Is the HP48G series of calculators going to be added to the museum proper instead of just being listed on the "other" calculators page? I think it would be a good idea as they've been out of production for around 17 years Smile

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04-11-2021, 10:07 PM
Post: #55
RE: I love MoHPC!
Regarding implementing the sorting of the Benchmarks page table according to the column headers, I found what looks to be a pretty well written piece of Javascript that's GPLed : https://www.allmyscripts.com/Table_Sort/ . Using this script, I downloaded the Benchmarks page and added :

Code:
    <script type="text/javascript" src="gs_sortable.js"></script>
    <script type="text/javascript">
        var TSort_Data = new Array ('benchmarks_table', 's', 'd', 'c', 'i', 'i', 'i');
        <!-- tsRegister(); -->
        var TSort_Initial = '0U';
    </script>

to the head section of the Benchmarks.htm HTML file. Next I added an 'id="benchmarks_table"' to the initial "<table>" tag and I had to surround the table column "<th>" headers in "<thead> ... </thead>" tags. I then had to remove the "<tbody> ... </tbody>" tags to get the script to work correctly, but the removal of the "<tbody>" tags didn't seem to have any impact on the rendering of the page or table, in the latest 64-bit Windows 10 version of Firefox at least.

The linked Javascript code also supports saving the sorting order via a cookie, but I didn't add that to the downloaded test page. The documentation for the code shows how to get saved sorting preferences via cookies to work very easily.

Anyways, it's pretty easy to implement using the linked Javascript code, and I think it would improve the Benchmarks page, although that's just my own opinion Smile -- It's up to the Museum Curator to decide if it actually makes the page "better" Smile.

Regards,

Jonathan

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