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HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
11-07-2020, 05:06 PM
Post: #1
HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
The HP-41C was introduced with a standard applications booklet included but not the standard applications rom module.

This broke from previous high end models (in a way) like the HP-65 and HP-67 that included the magnetic cards for the standard pac.

Sure, the standard module would have likely cost more than the magnetic card pacs, so that was likely the reason.

My question is ... does anyone know or have info about whether HP ever planned to include the standard module with the unit and then changed their mind prior to introduction?

Not sure I have ever seen that question answered... if so, please point me to it. :-)

ty
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11-07-2020, 05:29 PM
Post: #2
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
I don't know for sure, but the language on page 2 of the manual suggests they meant the book to be a learning aid, not just on keying in a program, but for writing programs in general. Pedagogically, HP suggested in page 2 that learning is improved by studying existing code. As such, they offered program listings for study, not necessarily for plug-and-play use.

While the program listings and description are perfectly adequate, I have seen nothing that surpasses the the PPC ROM manual and program listings for learning clever programming techniques.

I suspect HP later made the actual STANDARD module based on 1 or more of these motivations:
  1. make money selling another module (why not?)
  2. they had available space on the ROM manufacturing line and needed to fill it to maintain production in between higher margin ROM's
  3. user feedback based on frustration/errors made trying to key in 100-200 step programs with no available checksum.


Caveat emptor ,I could be wrong on all points.

17bii | 32s | 32sii | 41c | 41cv | 41cx | 42s | 48g | 48g+ | 48gx | 50g | 30b

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11-07-2020, 07:07 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
I think all of Allen's points are right-on, though mostly motivated by #3, with folks no doubt stating to support staff that they would buy it if available.

Also, late in the 41 life cycle, there were numerous times HP had warned that the ROM mfg line would be shutting down 'soon' if there were no bulk orders (one of the things that led to the final PPC ROM production run) so they may have decided to build this module also to extend the line, keeping it available for 3rd party customers a bit longer. There were supposedly several firms still working on modules but were not ready to release when the 'last and final' call came, and the projects either died or were distributed on EPROM or OTP modules, so maybe they didn't make enough of these.

--Bob Prosperi
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11-07-2020, 11:01 PM
Post: #4
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
.
Hi, Gene:

(11-07-2020 05:06 PM)Gene Wrote:  This broke from previous high end models (in a way) like the HP-65 and HP-67 that included the magnetic cards for the standard pac.

The 67/97 mag cards were ideal for such simple, sample programs as the ones included as standard, but much less so in the form of a 41 module, because while using the cards just required them to be passed through the built-in card reader, using a standard module would require having a port free.

As I remember from my HP-41 days, the 41 had just 4 ports and they were always in use. At first I had the card reader taking one port and the other three would have RAM modules, three in all, which were essential for complex programs such as my Othello. When I had to use the printer (very frequently, Othello made great use of it), I forcibly had to unplug the card reader and plug in the printer there, as unplugging a RAM module was out of the question.

Matters got worse when powerful modules appeared such as the PPC ROM, let alone new peripherals like the wand, which was great to quickly and effortlessly load the programs printed as barcode here and there (in PPC and CHHU, say), error-free. When the CV appeared it was a godsend but then you also had to plug in the Extended Functions module and hopefully a Extended Memory module or two, so again you found yourself starved for ports. The CX alleviated the need for RAM modules and the Extended Functions module, but then you had to plug in the Advantage ROM. I also had a tape reader available ... Smile

The bottom line ? Wasting a port in something as inane and irrelevant as the Standard Pac module, even if momentarily, was a big no-no.

Best regards and have a nice weekend.
V.

  
All My Articles & other Materials here:  Valentin Albillo's HP Collection
 
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11-07-2020, 11:26 PM
Post: #5
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
At an HHC conference in the 80's someone needed help with their 41, so I inquired about the problem, which he didn't explain well. In the end, the task needed was to simply download a copy of a program in the STD Module to RAM, exactly because he did not want to tie up a port for that module, but wanted to use a module program (TVM I think). I asked why he didn't just type it in, since it's in the included Std Apps. manual. He replied he didn't know the manual and the module had the same content, and he bought the module since it had a nice variety of apps. So the point above about HP selling it simply because they could resonates here...

--Bob Prosperi
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11-08-2020, 02:20 AM
Post: #6
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
(11-07-2020 11:01 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  .
Hi, Gene:
The 67/97 mag cards were ideal for such simple, sample programs as the ones included as standard, but much less so in the form of a 41 module, because while using the cards just required them to be passed through the built-in card reader, using a standard module would require having a port free.
The bottom line ? Wasting a port in something as inane and irrelevant as the Standard Pac module, even if momentarily, was a big no-no.

Best regards and have a nice weekend.
V.

Gene: Totally agree with you over time. I recall having 3 single density memory modules at one point. Still as they were developing the HP-41, before it was sold... at some point I would think HP had to decide whether to include a standard pac rom or not. They obviously decided "No" but I do wonder when they decided and what the thinking process was.

It ** may ** have been as described here. :-) Just curious.

ty
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11-08-2020, 08:50 AM
Post: #7
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
As far as i recall, most modules were sold/used as a promotional item during BTS, you would get a voucher in the box and could send for the module for free, if you wanted it.
(11-07-2020 05:29 PM)Allen Wrote:  I don't know for sure, but the language on page 2 of the manual suggests they meant the book to be a learning aid, not just on keying in a program, but for writing programs in general. Pedagogically, HP suggested in page 2 that learning is improved by studying existing code. As such, they offered program listings for study, not necessarily for plug-and-play use.

While the program listings and description are perfectly adequate, I have seen nothing that surpasses the the PPC ROM manual and program listings for learning clever programming techniques.

I suspect HP later made the actual STANDARD module based on 1 or more of these motivations:
  1. make money selling another module (why not?)
  2. they had available space on the ROM manufacturing line and needed to fill it to maintain production in between higher margin ROM's
  3. user feedback based on frustration/errors made trying to key in 100-200 step programs with no available checksum.


Caveat emptor ,I could be wrong on all points.
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11-08-2020, 07:02 PM
Post: #8
RE: HP-41 Standard Module - was there ever a plan to include it in box ?
I remember this as well where HP would have a card in the 41 box which if you mailed it in they would send you a Standard Module. Towards the end I believe they did similar offers with the Advantage module.
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