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HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
08-18-2019, 03:10 AM
Post: #1
HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
I've recently purchased an HP30b and wish to have it programmed as a WP34s. I've searched far and wide to locate an HP Flash Update Cable without success.
Is anyone in the Melbourne area able to assist me by doing the programming work? I'm happy to pay for this service.

Thanks
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08-18-2019, 02:38 PM
Post: #2
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
Yo may want to contact seller vintagecalculatorsinc, who sold several of those cables (including to myself), or 1000oaks99, on eBay: they may have some left.
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08-18-2019, 08:28 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
It can be done without the special cable, just using a FTDI 3.3V TTL USB serial cable. You need a steady hand to hold the three serial wires (0V, TX and RX) in place while programming, and some means to short two pads together at the appropriate time.

— Ian Abbott
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08-18-2019, 11:31 PM
Post: #4
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
Hi brierand,
Thanks for the advice on the two ebay sellers. I'll contact them.

Hi ijabbott,
If I can't locate the cable from the ebay sellers, I'll try my hand at holding the wires on the pads as you suggest.

Thanks to you both.
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08-19-2019, 01:44 AM
Post: #5
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-18-2019 11:31 PM)nova Wrote:  Hi brierand,
Thanks for the advice on the two ebay sellers. I'll contact them.

Hi ijabbott,
If I can't locate the cable from the ebay sellers, I'll try my hand at holding the wires on the pads as you suggest.

Thanks to you both.

If that doesn't work, 30b connectors aren't hard to make.

[Image: Conn%2BV2.JPG]

No soldering required. Smile
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08-19-2019, 03:17 AM
Post: #6
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
Re: Holding the wires to the pads...

This gentleman documented the procedure to do it fairly well using a $4 cable from Newegg. I followed his method and did it myself a bunch of times before I was lucky enough to get an "official" cable.

http://www.thereminworld.com/album/diy-c...hoto=15081

There used to be a little more of a write-up, but not much and that link seems to be dead.. Really the pictures here are the key.

It's not so hard, but make take a couple of tries.
Keep us posted!
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08-19-2019, 07:55 AM
Post: #7
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
I'm in Brisbane and have a programming cable (being one of the author's that's not surprising Smile

I'm not sure the ancient PC I used to use it with still works, but there is a chance I'll be in Melbourne in October and could bring the cable with me.


Pauli
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08-23-2019, 06:26 AM
Post: #8
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-18-2019 03:10 AM)nova Wrote:  I've recently purchased an HP30b and wish to have it programmed as a WP34s. I've searched far and wide to locate an HP Flash Update Cable without success.
Is anyone in the Melbourne area able to assist me by doing the programming work? I'm happy to pay for this service.

Thanks

I'm in Melbourne (NE suburbs). I have a cable.... where are you located?
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08-26-2019, 07:57 AM
Post: #9
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-19-2019 07:55 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  I'm in Brisbane and have a programming cable (being one of the author's that's not surprising Smile

I'm not sure the ancient PC I used to use it with still works, but there is a chance I'll be in Melbourne in October and could bring the cable with me.


Pauli


(08-23-2019 06:26 AM)JimP Wrote:  I'm in Melbourne (NE suburbs). I have a cable.... where are you located?


Hi Pauli and JimP,
Sorry for the delayed response.
Thank you both for your very helpful offers to assist.

JimP, I can meet with you any day of the week or weekend, day or evening, although I'd prefer daylight hours if possible. I can do all the travelling to meet up with you. (I live in Bunyip). We only need to set a date/time/place.

Would you have the necessary WP34s files for the latest code version, or should I provide these? Do I need to bring anything else?

With my thanks
Graeme
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08-26-2019, 02:50 PM
Post: #10
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-26-2019 07:57 AM)nova Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:55 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  I'm in Brisbane and have a programming cable (being one of the author's that's not surprising Smile

I'm not sure the ancient PC I used to use it with still works, but there is a chance I'll be in Melbourne in October and could bring the cable with me.


Pauli


(08-23-2019 06:26 AM)JimP Wrote:  I'm in Melbourne (NE suburbs). I have a cable.... where are you located?


Hi Pauli and JimP,
Sorry for the delayed response.
Thank you both for your very helpful offers to assist.

JimP, I can meet with you any day of the week or weekend, day or evening, although I'd prefer daylight hours if possible. I can do all the travelling to meet up with you. (I live in Bunyip). We only need to set a date/time/place.

Would you have the necessary WP34s files for the latest code version, or should I provide these? Do I need to bring anything else?

With my thanks
Graeme


Re files: my 2 cents, if you have one opportunity only with a cable, check out the options first. There are various options in selecting the build you like.

As a starting point, look at the latest releases at

http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/bran...realbuild/
http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/trunk/realbuild/

Try the corresponding emulators.

Also google BIT and WP34S to find interesting older versions that Bit released.

Jaco Mostert, Elec Eng
42S, DM42, WP34C/S, 28C, 35S, 32Sii, owned 11C; used 67, 85; iOS: 42s, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc; OSX: WP34C.
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08-27-2019, 03:38 AM
Post: #11
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-26-2019 02:50 PM)Jaco@cocoon-creations.com Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 07:57 AM)nova Wrote:  Hi Pauli and JimP,
Sorry for the delayed response.
Thank you both for your very helpful offers to assist.

JimP, I can meet with you any day of the week or weekend, day or evening, although I'd prefer daylight hours if possible. I can do all the travelling to meet up with you. (I live in Bunyip). We only need to set a date/time/place.

Would you have the necessary WP34s files for the latest code version, or should I provide these? Do I need to bring anything else?

With my thanks
Graeme


Re files: my 2 cents, if you have one opportunity only with a cable, check out the options first. There are various options in selecting the build you like.

As a starting point, look at the latest releases at

http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/bran...realbuild/
http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/trunk/realbuild/

Try the corresponding emulators.

Also google BIT and WP34S to find interesting older versions that Bit released.

Your advice is most welcome, and timely! Thank you. I didn't realise there's more than one build. I've got some work to do!

JimP, I'll get back to you once I've identified the build required.
Thanks
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08-28-2019, 04:52 AM
Post: #12
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-27-2019 03:38 AM)nova Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 02:50 PM)Jaco@cocoon-creations.com Wrote:  Re files: my 2 cents, if you have one opportunity only with a cable, check out the options first. There are various options in selecting the build you like.

As a starting point, look at the latest releases at

http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/bran...realbuild/
http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/trunk/realbuild/

Try the corresponding emulators.

Also google BIT and WP34S to find interesting older versions that Bit released.

Your advice is most welcome, and timely! Thank you. I didn't realise there's more than one build. I've got some work to do!

JimP, I'll get back to you once I've identified the build required.
Thanks

I've looked at the links above and found the two calc_full.bin files, both showing as Revision 3905. I understand each file holds the complete build code information for the flashing procedure. Unfortunately I don't understand the differences between these versions sufficient to choose which file to apply to the programming task.

Up until four weeks ago, I was not aware of the WP 34s project. I came across it during a web search for a Tanh-Sinh numerical integrator. Dr Google brought me to the forum, and specifically to the T-S program developments provided by forum member emece67. The forum posts were dated early in 2017. Pauli confirmed the Tanh-Sinh program would be added to the next build.

(04-02-2017 09:34 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  The code is in -- it will appear in the next build.

Pauli

I was fascinated by the WP 34s project overall, and managed to purchase a new HP 30b calculator. Forum members assisted my search for information describing the manner in which the HP 30b could be programmed via the HP flash cable and other connection methods (hand-made connectors, USB interfaces, the clock crystal and IR diode modifications, etc). It was at this point that I sought assistance with the programming task as I could not find any of the HP cables available, and both Pauli and JimP generously offered to assist me. Thank you both again.

At this point, the only thing delaying the calculator programming task is for me to determine which build file to use, as raised above by Jaco@cocoon-creations.com. Also, I've been unable to locate the emulator file sets for these two builds for running as an executable under Windows. Do the emulators contain the code for the build in a form which is viewable as RPN code lines in programming mode, or are the programs in the build always hidden from view in both the emulators and the physical calculator, and only accessible as functions called by their global label names? I'm unsure how to obtain the emulators or even what I need to obtain to try them!

Re the Tanh-Sinh program by emece67. Is this program contained in the two Revision 3905 calc_full.bin files? iF so, I'm still not sure how I make the choice between them due to insufficient knowledge of the WP 34s program development environment and build procedures, and the build differences between them. If the T-S program is in only one of those files, perhaps someone would be able to let me know which one.

Sorry for these very basic questions about the WP 34s project. Unfortunately, as an absolute beginner with the WP 34s, I very much don't know what I don't know!! Given the several-years time line of the project, my period of association is a dot at the far right end! Thank you for your patience and assistance. I still have a lot of knowledge and understanding to gather.
Regards
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08-28-2019, 06:09 AM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2019 06:52 AM by jebem.)
Post: #13
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-28-2019 04:52 AM)nova Wrote:  
(08-27-2019 03:38 AM)nova Wrote:  Your advice is most welcome, and timely! Thank you. I didn't realise there's more than one build. I've got some work to do!

JimP, I'll get back to you once I've identified the build required.
Thanks

I've looked at the links above and found the two calc_full.bin files, both showing as Revision 3905. I understand each file holds the complete build code information for the flashing procedure. Unfortunately I don't understand the differences between these versions sufficient to choose which file to apply to the programming task.

Up until four weeks ago, I was not aware of the WP 34s project. I came across it during a web search for a Tanh-Sinh numerical integrator. Dr Google brought me to the forum, and specifically to the T-S program developments provided by forum member emece67. The forum posts were dated early in 2017. Pauli confirmed the Tanh-Sinh program would be added to the next build.

(04-02-2017 09:34 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  The code is in -- it will appear in the next build.

Pauli

I was fascinated by the WP 34s project overall, and managed to purchase a new HP 30b calculator. Forum members assisted my search for information describing the manner in which the HP 30b could be programmed via the HP flash cable and other connection methods (hand-made connectors, USB interfaces, the clock crystal and IR diode modifications, etc). It was at this point that I sought assistance with the programming task as I could not find any of the HP cables available, and both Pauli and JimP generously offered to assist me. Thank you both again.

At this point, the only thing delaying the calculator programming task is for me to determine which build file to use, as raised above by Jaco@cocoon-creations.com. Also, I've been unable to locate the emulator file sets for these two builds for running as an executable under Windows. Do the emulators contain the code for the build in a form which is viewable as RPN code lines in programming mode, or are the programs in the build always hidden from view in both the emulators and the physical calculator, and only accessible as functions called by their global label names? I'm unsure how to obtain the emulators or even what I need to obtain to try them!

Re the Tanh-Sinh program by emece67. Is this program contained in the two Revision 3905 calc_full.bin files? iF so, I'm still not sure how I make the choice between them due to insufficient knowledge of the WP 34s program development environment and build procedures, and the build differences between them. If the T-S program is in only one of those files, perhaps someone would be able to let me know which one.

Sorry for these very basic questions about the WP 34s project. Unfortunately, as an absolute beginner with the WP 34s, I very much don't know what I don't know!! Given the several-years time line of the project, my period of association is a dot at the far right end! Thank you for your patience and assistance. I still have a lot of knowledge and understanding to gather.
Regards


No expert here, but I would suggest to navigate up on each of the two url's up by clicking on the 1st row ("..") until you see a folder named "docs".
In the docs folder there is information that may answer some of the questions.

It seems that the 1st URL is a variant for complex lock mode that several members here found useful when compared with the standard "official" release found in the 2nd URL.

Also binaries exist for the different hardware variants (standard unmodified hp 20/30, installed xtal, installed ir port).

Concerning the t-s function, I would check again the docs folder in the standard official release, as it seems a pdf user guide is included as well, although I don't know if it is the approved official user guide. The later should be obtained from Walter. He used to distribute the latest edition on paperback. I believe he distributed a pdf format as well in the past.

Additional note on t-s integration:
Have a look to the source code for the standard official build:
http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/trunk/xrom/

One integrate.wp34s file is listed. Opening it and for me it looks like this ican be the t-s function you are looking for:


// Double Exponential Integration for the wp34s calculator
//
// v1.4x-412 (20180312) by M. C�sar Rodr�guez GGPL
//
//
// Remarks:
// - accepts +Infinite and -Infinite as integration limits. If none
// of the limits is infinite, the method applied is the tanh-sinh
// one. If both are infinite then the sinh-sinh method is selected.
// Otherwise the exp-sinh method is used.

Jose Mesquita
RadioMuseum.org member

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08-28-2019, 07:39 AM
Post: #14
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-28-2019 04:52 AM)nova Wrote:  Sorry for these very basic questions about the WP 34s project. Unfortunately, as an absolute beginner with the WP 34s, I very much don't know what I don't know!! Given the several-years time line of the project, my period of association is a dot at the far right end! Thank you for your patience and assistance. I still have a lot of knowledge and understanding to gather.
Regards


Hi,

I also was a late starter on the 34, only finding it a few months ago. It was definitely worth it for me to make a cable.

You can navigate the linked by the URLs I gave. Navigate to Windows/bin, where the emulators live. Also see the URLs below, I linked them for you.

http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/bran...ndows/bin/
http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/trunk/windows/bin/

Alternatively, download the full set of files to navigate on your computer, by clicking "Download Snapshot" on either https://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/3905/tree/ or the complex version at https://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/390...plex_mode/

About the versions,

Often you have to venture into opening the features.h text file to ascertain what was compiled in and what not. This file is in the root directory of the build.

To make it easy, in short, if you work with with complex numbers, you need to consider the complex branch, aka WP34C. If you don't need them, the main WP34S is perfect.

For most purposes you do not really need the crystal modification. I have four units at the moment, all with different firmwares, and only one of them is modded with the crystal. The others work perfectly well without. (The four I have made are WP31S, WP34S, WP34C and a WP34C eRPN, all with above-key labels).

I also have some vinyl stickers left (of the above key variant). If you want, pm me.

Jaco Mostert, Elec Eng
42S, DM42, WP34C/S, 28C, 35S, 32Sii, owned 11C; used 67, 85; iOS: 42s, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc; OSX: WP34C.
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08-28-2019, 01:00 PM
Post: #15
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
If you use complex numbers a lot, use the complex number version of the image. If you want a more basic non-programmable calculator use the 31S image. It doesn't seem like you want these, the T-S integration code isn't much use for either.

Stick with the basic WP 34S image unless you are willing to install a crystal + capacitors or the IR LED. These require soldering skills.

The difference between the base image and the _full image is that the latter includes the program library. This contains a number of useful routines but isn't essential.
[/code]

Pauli
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08-28-2019, 07:10 PM
Post: #16
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
A few more comments: as Pauli says, calc_full.bin comes with quite a few programs already stored in flash memory, whereas calc.bin does not. These programs include matrix.wp34s matrixedit.wp34s vectors.wp34s digamma.wp34s invgamma.wp34s coordinates.wp34s modified-AGM.wp34s elliptic.wp34s TVM.wp34s CSV.wp34s TRIGON.wp34s PF.wp34s.

To decide whether you want them you can look in the library folder in the main code directory. The wp34s assembler code for each program appears there and each file is well documented. If you think you might want them it's probably better to start with them and then to delete those you don't want, especially if you don't have a cable to allow you to transfer them across.

If you are considering the WP34C variant I should point out that the standard WP34S firmware supports complex numbers perfectly well. The point of the WP34C variant is to make using complex numbers more straightforward. The price you pay is the loss of a few rather obscure functions and a decrease in the amount of flash memory available to store programs. You'll also need to look in the documentation folder in the complex branch (/branches/complex_mode/doc) to see how the complex mode works, as this isn't covered in the WP34S documentation.

One feature only available with the WP34C variant is ... entry RPN! (Jaco added this feature to the WP34C code.) It means that pressing ENTER does not copy the x-register to the y-register; the stack only lifts when another number is entered. This isn't standard HP RPN behaviour, but some people like it. If you are one of them, you want the .bin files with "entryRPN" in their names.

You'll find the Windows emulators in /trunk/windows/bin and /branches/complex_mode/windows/bin. In each case copy the whole folder and its contents. The emulators should run fine if you do.

I can recommend Jaco's stickers!

Hope this helps.

Nigel (UK)
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08-30-2019, 01:00 PM
Post: #17
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
My grateful thanks to jebem, Jaco, Pauli and Nigel for your messages above.
Your information and explanations have provided huge clarity about the WP34S and the associated creation tools required. Thank you.

After considering your comments, I'll use the standard official release in the http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/trunk/realbuild/ folder. It includes the tanh-sinh integrator by emece67. I've downloaded the calc_full.bin file.

I managed to purchase a genuine NOS HP flash cable, which I should receive in a couple of weeks. I've also purchased the FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter, so the remaining step is to setup the programming software and program the HP30b. Nearly done!

If all goes to plan, I should be able to do the programming task myself, in which case I shouldn't need to take up the programming offers by JimP and Pauli. Thanks again to you both for your offers to assist.

I will let you know how it turns out. Hopefully I'll have good news!!
With kind regards.
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08-30-2019, 03:52 PM
Post: #18
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-30-2019 01:00 PM)nova Wrote:  I've downloaded the calc_full.bin file.

I think the "full" file you are picking is good, as the programs built into the library are some nice ones, that have fairly broad interest.

Quote:I managed to purchase a genuine NOS HP flash cable, which I should receive in a couple of weeks. I've also purchased the FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter, so the remaining step is to setup the programming software and program the HP30b. Nearly done!

You probably realize this, but just in case you missed it or for others contemplating the wonders of the WP34s...
If you have the official HP flash cable, you don't need the "FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter". To reflash the calculator, you need one or the other, but not both. The real HP cable is great, but it's scarce and expensive, so a lot of people have homebrew-rigged the equivalent via the "FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter". No harm in having also that as a super-cheap spare, but hopefully the OEM cable will work fine for you.

If you are spending money, you really should get the final v3.3 manual which includes some additions and corrections not in the free v3.1 manual. You can either buy a hardcopy of the v3.3 manual or a PDF. I'd recommend at least having the PDF which is a lot cheaper (10 or 12€, I forget) and can be cntl-f searched for commands and whatnot. The printed manual is fine (I have both), but that search capability is important for me.

Good luck!
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08-30-2019, 03:58 PM
Post: #19
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-30-2019 03:52 PM)burkhard Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 01:00 PM)nova Wrote:  I've downloaded the calc_full.bin file.

I think the "full" file you are picking is good, as the programs built into the library are some nice ones, that have fairly broad interest.

Quote:I managed to purchase a genuine NOS HP flash cable, which I should receive in a couple of weeks. I've also purchased the FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter, so the remaining step is to setup the programming software and program the HP30b. Nearly done!

You probably realize this, but just in case you missed it or for others contemplating the wonders of the WP34s...
If you have the official HP flash cable, you don't need the "FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter". To reflash the calculator, you need one or the other, but not both. The real HP cable is great, but it's scarce and expensive, so a lot of people have homebrew-rigged the equivalent via the "FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter". No harm in having also that as a super-cheap spare, but hopefully the OEM cable will work fine for you.

If you are spending money, you really should get the final v3.3 manual which includes some additions and corrections not in the free v3.1 manual. You can either buy a hardcopy of the v3.3 manual or a PDF. I'd recommend at least having the PDF which is a lot cheaper (10 or 12€, I forget) and can be cntl-f searched for commands and whatnot. The printed manual is fine (I have both), but that search capability is important for me.

Good luck!

Also, make sure you do NOT buy the eBook version from Amazon. I did and is was a mess. Walter replaced it with a proper PDF file free of (additional) charge.

Jaco Mostert, Elec Eng
42S, DM42, WP34C/S, 28C, 35S, 32Sii, owned 11C; used 67, 85; iOS: 42s, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc; OSX: WP34C.
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08-31-2019, 12:41 AM (This post was last modified: 08-31-2019 12:48 AM by ijabbott.)
Post: #20
RE: HP30b to WP34s Programming in Melbourne
(08-30-2019 03:52 PM)burkhard Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 01:00 PM)nova Wrote:  I managed to purchase a genuine NOS HP flash cable, which I should receive in a couple of weeks. I've also purchased the FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter, so the remaining step is to setup the programming software and program the HP30b. Nearly done!

You probably realize this, but just in case you missed it or for others contemplating the wonders of the WP34s...
If you have the official HP flash cable, you don't need the "FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter". To reflash the calculator, you need one or the other, but not both.

But the HP flash cable has an RS-232 serial connection at the PC end, so if your PC has no serial ports, you do need a USB to RS-232 serial adapter to plug into the HP flash cable.

Quote:The real HP cable is great, but it's scarce and expensive, so a lot of people have homebrew-rigged the equivalent via the "FTDI Chip USB to RS232 adapter". No harm in having also that as a super-cheap spare, but hopefully the OEM cable will work fine for you.

Actually, the homebrew approach needs a 3.3V TTL serial connection at the calculator end (not RS-232). I use an FTDI TTL-232R-RPi Debug Cable.

— Ian Abbott
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