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HP86 problem
07-04-2019, 01:15 PM
Post: #1
HP86 problem
A festive greeting to all.

HP86 problem

I purchased an old HP86-B as the first known problem that the text of the screen is missing to the left of about 7-8 characters, and to the right of another 10-11 characters.

I connected the video output to the RCA input of a TV (MultiSistem NTCS-PAL-SECAM Etc)

as a second problem the system displays both the characters from the keyboard, but any command is rejected with "Error 88 SMT Bad"
example "3 + 3" instead of answering 6 gives me the same error
"Error 88: BAD STMT"

it appears that the correct operating system is not present
By pressing the "test" button the computer performs the test correctly.

But I can't get him to digest anything
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07-04-2019, 03:39 PM
Post: #2
RE: HP86 problem
(07-04-2019 01:15 PM)Alexkumt Wrote:  ... as a second problem the system displays both the characters from the keyboard, but any command is rejected with "Error 88 SMT Bad"
example "3 + 3" instead of answering 6 gives me the same error
"Error 88: BAD STMT"

When the system powers up, you are in BASIC, so, indeed, you are entering a bad statement. Try: Print 3+3<CR>

You have to enter proper BASIC statements in immediate mode, or enter a line number for each statement if you want to build up a multi-line program.

I know that my 86 sent its display off a little to the left side. I had to find a monitor that would allow me to "Under Scan." That is a control button on some monitors. That is what fixed it for me.

Good luck!
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07-04-2019, 04:16 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP86 problem
There is a mailing list dedicated to the HP Series 80 machines here - https://groups.io/g/hpseries80 .

Come take a look!

Jack
http://www.computerarium.org
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07-04-2019, 07:12 PM
Post: #4
RE: HP86 problem
(07-04-2019 03:39 PM)smp Wrote:  When the system powers up, you are in BASIC, so, indeed, you are entering a bad statement. Try: Print 3+3<CR>

You have to enter proper BASIC statements in immediate mode, or enter a line number for each statement if you want to build up a multi-line program.

Actually, HP BASIC (and likely many others, but I don't have access to them to check) allows commands such as "3 + 3 [END LINE]" as valid, as there is an implied DISP command inserted by the OS. So typing that should return 6. Such lines are not illegal and should not produce any errors, so it's definitely something else in your system.

I know this is true for Series-70 and Series-80 machines, but don't know for sure about the 90x0 and 90x5 machines, though I'd guess they're all the same in this way.

--Bob Prosperi
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07-05-2019, 10:48 PM
Post: #5
RE: HP86 problem
(07-04-2019 07:12 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Actually, HP BASIC (and likely many others, but I don't have access to them to check) allows commands such as "3 + 3 [END LINE]" as valid, as there is an implied DISP command inserted by the OS. So typing that should return 6.

Yes this is true. In fact the Series 80 keyboard has a key (RESLT) which brings up the result of the previous calculation.

So 3+3 ENTER
gives 6
if you then press RESLT you will get 6 inserted at the cursor position.
Very useful for quick calculations.

I believe that the 9825 also had this facility with the added bonus that you could do calculations while the computer was running a program (live keyboard).

Anyway back to the HP-86. What prompt do you get? Have you tried running other commands to see if BASIC is present? Maybe there is some other ROM that is interfering with the boot process. Is there anything connected to the expansion slots in the back?

Some pictures of the unit will definitely be useful.

**vp

http://www.series80.org
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07-10-2019, 10:12 AM
Post: #6
RE: HP86 problem
[Image: photo.php?fbid=886503061707635&amp;s...mp;theater]

This is Mainboard HP-86B
there is a strange Dip-Switch
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07-10-2019, 10:22 AM
Post: #7
RE: HP86 problem
Is there a possibility to have the wiring diagram of the motherboard of the HP-86B?
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07-10-2019, 11:10 AM
Post: #8
RE: HP86 problem
(07-10-2019 10:22 AM)Alexkumt Wrote:  Is there a possibility to have the wiring diagram of the motherboard of the HP-86B?

This may help

http://www.hpcc.org/cdroms/schematics5.0.../hp86b.pdf

cheers

Tony
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07-10-2019, 09:33 PM
Post: #9
RE: HP86 problem
teenix thank you very much
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07-19-2019, 05:44 PM
Post: #10
RE: HP86 problem
now I have news about this problem. in fact, after connecting the computer to an HP monitor, I could see the first missing line. when I turn on the computer it displays nothing, even waiting for several minutes. however, when I press a button, a Warning "Warning 101: LANG UNDEFINED" message appears, then any command I issue always leaves the error "Error 88: BAD STMT" pressing the Run button, this appears instead "Error 48 on line 99999: End
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07-19-2019, 08:23 PM
Post: #11
RE: HP86 problem
(07-19-2019 05:44 PM)Alexkumt Wrote:  now I have news about this problem. in fact, after connecting the computer to an HP monitor, I could see the first missing line. when I turn on the computer it displays nothing, even waiting for several minutes. however, when I press a button, a Warning "Warning 101: LANG UNDEFINED" message appears, then any command I issue always leaves the error "Error 88: BAD STMT" pressing the Run button, this appears instead "Error 48 on line 99999: End

I wonder if the "LANG" the warning message is referring to might be the national language ie English, French, German, etc. There is a switch on the board S2 that sets this and there are lots of potentially invalid combinations. Even if it appears to be set correctly you may want to verify switches that are supposed to be closed really are, it is not unheard of for these switches to go bad. The setting for English should be all switches in SW2 set to 0 which is likely the closed position it should be marked on the board.

If my guess above is correct then the error 88 may be coming up because it is unsure of what you are typing however I do not believe any of the BASIC statements are translated.

The error 48 may be normal when there is no end statement in memory it may search to the max line number looking for a end statement when you are trying to execute a program.

For some monitors you may need to adjust the horizontal and vertical size to get everything on the screen. The video signal is similar to NTSC but not exactly the same.

I can't verify my guess about LANG right now as my 86B is packed away for moving.

Paul.
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07-19-2019, 09:43 PM
Post: #12
RE: HP86 problem
this is the motherboard, in red I highlighted the dip-switches

https://imge.to/i/5oR86
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07-20-2019, 01:50 AM
Post: #13
RE: HP86 problem
(07-19-2019 09:43 PM)Alexkumt Wrote:  this is the motherboard, in red I highlighted the dip-switches

https://imge.to/i/5oR86

You can find the service guide for 86B at http://www.akso.de/fileadmin/Series_80/A...ce_86B.pdf on page 4-24 of the manual the settings for SW2 are defined, I cannot tell from you picture which way the switches are set, however in my experience the rocker type can be especially flaky you may want to rock them back and forth a few times to make sure they are closed, and verify the connections using a meter. Unfortunately the scan of the schematics in that manual are pretty poor but you can see that on one side of that switch is connected to non-inverting buffer outputs and the inputs are grounded. There is another signal connected which is likely an enable signal, so my guess is that when the 86B starts up the buffers are enabled and the switch read and then the buffers are turned off. Near as I can tell from the schematics the switch is connected to some of the column lines, so that would be the reason for the non-invert buffers, so it could be read and then get out of the way. Best guess is the non-invert buffer chip is the 1820-1402 (74LS365) right behind the switch but you could confirm with a meter.

If the enable signal never arrives or one of the buffers is defective it could lead to the LANG warning. That switch is unfortunately missing from Tony's schematic, perhaps it only appeared in later revisions of the 86B, and the schematic section of the service guide for the switch is pretty blurry.

I also happened upon a manual "Introduction to 86B Local Language" on hpmuseum.org and found your message in there "101 (Warning) LANG UNDEFINED Computer hardware is not properly configured for local languages - the computer requires servicing"

Paul.
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