[43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
12-16-2013, 04:45 AM
Post: #1
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
[43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
Since we're in a new habitat now, please let me post the current keyboard layout so everybody can find it here as well. It's pictured showing the function grouping:

And for sake of completeness a short summary of the features planned:

+ A solver (root finder) that can solve for any variable in an equation.
+ Numeric integration for calculating definite integrals.
+ Numeric derivation.
+ Matrix operations, including a comfortable Matrix Editor, a solver for simultaneous linear equations, and many other useful matrix functions.
+ Complex numbers and vector functions.
+ Statistical operations, including curve fitting and forecasting.
+ Bit manipulation, base conversions, and integer arithmetic in fifteen bases from binary to hexadecimal.
+ A stopwatch based on a real-time clock,
+ Battery-fail-safe on-board backup memory.
+ An SD card slot and an USB interface to the world outside, as well as an infrared printer port for immediate printing calculations, programs, and data using the HP 82240A Infrared Printer.
+ A catalog for reviewing and using items stored in memory.
+ An easy-to-use menu system that uses the bottom part of the display to label the top row of keys.
+ Menus and keyboard layouts that can be customized.
+ Keystroke programming with branching, looping, tests, and flags.
+ The ability to run programs written for the HP-41C, HP-42S, and WP 34S calculators.
+ A multi-line, high-resolution alphanumeric display with adjustable contrast, allowing for menus, softkeys, mathematical symbols, Greek and extended Latin letters.

Your WP 43S shall provide the most ample function set ever seen in an RPN pocket calculator:

+ Euler’s Beta and Riemann’s Zeta functions, Bernoulli and Fibonacci numbers, Lambert’s W, the error function, and the Chebyshev, Hermite, Laguerre, and Legendre orthogonal polynomials (no more need to carry heavy printed tables).
+ Probability distributions like standard normal, Fisher’s F, Student’s t, chi-square, Poisson, binomial, geo¬me¬tric, Cauchy-Lorentz, exponential, logistic, Weibull, log-normal, and Gaussian.
+ Over 50 fundamental physical constants stored as accurate as used today by national standards institutes such as NIST or PTB, plus a selection of important constants from mathematics, astronomy, and surveying.
+ Almost 100 conversions, mainly from old British Imperial to universal SI units and vice versa.

Furthermore, your WP 43S shall feature lots of space for your data and programs:

+ 4 or 8 stack levels and up to 107 global general purpose registers, each taking one object of arbitrary data type.
+ 112 global user flags.
+ As many named variables as memory can hold.
+ Up to 10 000 program steps in RAM, up to 20 000 program steps in flash memory.
+ 16 local flags and up to 888 local registers per routine allowing for recursive programming.

You know Santa's coming soon, so don't take the 10 000 steps too serious -- but the other features will probably happen if and when there'll be a hardware reaching us.

<|:-)
12-16-2013, 09:10 AM
Post: #2
 Paul Dale Senior Member Posts: 1,573 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
We want to surpass the 34S in most of these.....

- Pauli
12-16-2013, 09:14 AM
Post: #3
 Geoff Quickfall Senior Member Posts: 702 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
In a few words: "holy Cow"!

I know for a fact that it will be in the flight bag guaranteed. Any chance of having a version specially for me with for shift keys ;-)

Thanks for the clock and IR and USB and SD and ... but mainly those. I might of missed it, how much ram for programming? The 34S was a little short of memory for me.

Geoff
12-16-2013, 09:27 AM
Post: #4
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
As happy as a sandboy | clam | Larry | lark | dog with two tails...

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
12-16-2013, 09:41 AM
Post: #5
 HrastProgrammer Member Posts: 144 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
What to say ... Fascinating project, really!

http://www.hrastprogrammer.com/hrastwerk/
http://hrastprogrammer.bandcamp.com/
12-16-2013, 10:42 AM
Post: #6
 Paul Dale Senior Member Posts: 1,573 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 09:14 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  The 34S was a little short of memory for me.

The 34S has plenty of non-volatile flash you can put programs in.
Not a bad number of registers either, more so once you put your programs in flash.

- Pauli
12-16-2013, 04:41 PM
Post: #7
 Sanjeev Visvanatha Member Posts: 255 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
Looking at the layout for the first time, and fully recognizing all the thought and hard work that went into it, I have one suggestion and one question.

Suggestion: place the (i) key to the left of [f], place the Roll Down key to the right of RCL, and place the x<>y key to the right of ENTER. This places Roll and x<>y in familiar placements used in 42s, for instance.

Question : Can the menu keys be customized to providing access to basic trig and logs when a menu is not being displayed?

-- Sanjeev Visvanatha
12-16-2013, 06:30 PM
Post: #8
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 04:41 PM)Sanjeev Visvanatha Wrote:  Suggestion: place the (i) key to the left of [f], place the Roll Down key to the right of RCL, and place the x<>y key to the right of ENTER. This places Roll and x<>y in familiar placements used in 42s, for instance.
Know that, been there - until end of October. May change again until it materializes.

(12-16-2013 04:41 PM)Sanjeev Visvanatha Wrote:  Question : Can the menu keys be customized to providing access to basic trig and logs when a menu is not being displayed?
Yes, they can. Alternatively, press e.g. [TRIG] once and you'll have immediate (unshifted) access to SIN ARCSIN COS ARCCOS TAN ARCTAN. Or fill "MyMenu" with up to 18 functions appearing on screen as soon as your WP 43S starts working. BTW, each menu will stay assigned to the softkeys until it is explicitly EXITed or another menu is called.

d:-)
12-16-2013, 07:06 PM
Post: #9
 Jonathan Cameron Member Posts: 204 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
Hi Walter,

In the process of learning my wp 34s, I tried programming the same problem on several different calculators (WP 34s, Prime, 42s(Free42), 35, and 50). It was an interesting experience. I found I really liked the 42s SOLVER/MVAR approach. I also like the solver screen on the 50g and Prime. The prime has some other features that make a new app for the problem very attractive too. On the 34s, the approach that I used was to prompt for each value and then run the equation (like recent rope tension examples on the forum). I have not quite figured out the 34s solver yet. I see from the manual that it is 15c-like, but I never had a 15c, so I'm still a bit in the dark and would welcome a pointer to an example of how to how to use the 34s solver.

So I here is my question: What type of solver do you expect to implement in the 43s (in terms of the user interface)? More like 15c, more like 42s, or more like 50g?

Thanks

-Jonathan
12-16-2013, 07:22 PM
Post: #10
 d b Senior Member Posts: 489 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
Walter; I'm going to like mine which ever way it turns out in the end, but one question:
In all the back n forth concerning the keyboard function placement; did you find that there are enough people using Logs to warrant a top of key placement?
I was wondering if current time/date, print, or storage functions might get more use. I realize that with the User keyboard, everything is customizable. We'll just need stickers.
12-16-2013, 09:28 PM
Post: #11
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 07:06 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:  I have not quite figured out the 34s solver yet. I see from the manual that it is 15c-like, but I never had a 15c, so I'm still a bit in the dark and would welcome a pointer to an example of how to how to use the 34s solver.
IIRC, there's recommended in the WP 34S manual to read a chapter in another manual in this matter. May I repeat that recommendation? I'd like to promote the museum CD if you don't mind

(12-16-2013 07:06 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:  So I here is my question: What type of solver do you expect to implement in the 43s (in terms of the user interface)? More like 15c, more like 42s, or more like 50g?
More like 42S. The reason we had to deviate in the WP 34S was the given hardware of the 20B/30B, in particular that ... ummhh ... display. With the LCD of the 43S, 42S-like menus are feasible again on an RPN scientific after 20 years. That's called progress ...
12-16-2013, 10:11 PM
Post: #12
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 07:22 PM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  ... did you find that there are enough people using Logs to warrant a top of key placement?
I was wondering if current time/date, print, or storage functions might get more use.
There was a poll about that topic almost a year ago. IIRC, there were significantly more participants interested in 'logs' than in the alternatives you mention. BTW, pressing [LOG] will display a menu allowing immediate access to LN, e^x, LG, 10^x, x^3, and logxy. ((Hey Dave, why doesn't formatting work as before?))

And yes, you're right, you may reassign (almost) everything - the keyboard layout as presented is just the startup default layout - whenever you turn to USER mode, your assignments will replace it.

d:-)
12-16-2013, 10:29 PM (This post was last modified: 12-16-2013 11:22 PM by Mark Hardman.)
Post: #13
 Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 500 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 10:11 PM)walter b Wrote:  BTW, pressing [LOG] will display a menu allowing immediate access to LN, e^x, LG, 10^x, x^3, and logxy. ((Hey Dave, why doesn't formatting work as before?))

Try:

BTW, pressing [LOG] will display a menu allowing immediate access to $$\ln , e^{x}, \lg, 10^{x}, x^{3}, and \log_{x}y$$.

Mark Hardman

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
12-17-2013, 01:29 AM
Post: #14
 Jonathan Cameron Member Posts: 204 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 09:28 PM)walter b Wrote:  IIRC, there's recommended in the WP 34S manual to read a chapter in another manual in this matter. May I repeat that recommendation? I'd like to promote the museum CD if you don't mind
Thanks. I should have read the documentation for SLV a little closer! I'll investigate...

(12-16-2013 07:06 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:  So I here is my question: What type of solver do you expect to implement in the 43s (in terms of the user interface)? More like 15c, more like 42s, or more like 50g?
(12-16-2013 09:28 PM)walter b Wrote:  More like 42S. ...
Sounds good!

-Jonathan
12-17-2013, 03:05 AM
Post: #15
 Sanjeev Visvanatha Member Posts: 255 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 06:30 PM)walter b Wrote:  Yes, they can. Alternatively, press e.g. [TRIG] once and you'll have immediate (unshifted) access to SIN ARCSIN COS ARCCOS TAN ARCTAN. Or fill "MyMenu" with up to 18 functions appearing on screen as soon as your WP 43S starts working. BTW, each menu will stay assigned to the softkeys until it is explicitly EXITed or another menu is called.

Thank you. I found the UI guide [1], which goes a long way to describing WP 43S philosophy.

[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/wp43s/files/doc/

-- Sanjeev Visvanatha
12-18-2013, 07:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2013 08:00 PM by Jeff O..)
Post: #16
 Jeff O. Member Posts: 182 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-16-2013 06:30 PM)walter b Wrote:
(12-16-2013 04:41 PM)Sanjeev Visvanatha Wrote:  Suggestion: place the (i) key to the left of [f], place the Roll Down key to the right of RCL, and place the x<>y key to the right of ENTER. This places Roll and x<>y in familiar placements used in 42s, for instance.
Know that, been there - until end of October. May change again until it materializes.

Well, if layout changes may be entertained, I'll go ahead and throw out my thoughts based on your layout above.

Move the "i" key to the location to the right of the "." (the current location of the "R/S" key). That would place all keys needed to enter any value (0 through 9, "." and "i") in a nice 4 by 3 grid of keys. Just swapping the "i" and "R/S" keys would look like this:

If the “R/S” key looks out of place in the above, swapping the back-arrow and “R/S” keys would put “R/S” above XEQ, grouping the five program manipulation keys in a nice vertical column. The back-arrow would be closer to the other data entry and manipulation keys. This re-arrangement would look like this:

Of course the above would move the back-arrow key from its traditional right-end-of-the-enter-key-row location and would also necessitate that the alpha L skip over the second-from-right key. If that is too radical, my first proposal could still be considered.

Respectfully submitted, to be considered and acted upon as you see fit.

Dave - My mind is going - I can feel it.
12-18-2013, 09:30 PM
Post: #17
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
Jeff,

Thanks for sharing your ideas. What you suggest can be done, for sure. Just a quick remark, since you wrote:
Quote:Move the "i" key to the location to the right of the "." (the current location of the "R/S" key). That would place all keys needed to enter any value (0 through 9, "." and "i") in a nice 4 by 3 grid of keys.
IMHO, "all keys needed to enter any value" are also +/- and EEX, aren't they? ;-> For (semi-) finally assessing your suggestions, however, I'd like to wait some hours. Thanks for your patience.

d|-O
12-19-2013, 04:38 AM
Post: #18
 htom trites Junior Member Posts: 33 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
With the coming of 3-D printing, is it (soon) going to be practical for each user to have their own set of keytops and a faceplate manufactured? The programming would not automagicly change with the installed keytops and faceplate ... at least initially!
12-19-2013, 01:18 PM
Post: #19
 Jeff O. Member Posts: 182 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
(12-18-2013 09:30 PM)walter b Wrote:  IMHO, "all keys needed to enter any value" are also +/- and EEX, aren't they? ;-> For (semi-) finally assessing your suggestions, however, I'd like to wait some hours. Thanks for your patience.

Yes, of course. I actually thought of that after I posted, but left it stand as posted to see if it would be pointed out. I guess I meant that "i" is or should be considered on equal footing with 0 through 9, so those keys plus the radix are all you need to enter the numeric portion of any real or complex value.

Take as long as you like for final assessment.

Dave - My mind is going - I can feel it.
12-19-2013, 03:33 PM
Post: #20
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [43S] Just to have it on the new forum, too
Jeff,

Please allow me to skip your second layout proposal: as you guessed already, it would cause more than one strange feeling. So let's turn to the first. What would happen if we make it this way?
• Complex unit would move from J to Z.
• Since COMPLX should travel with [i], it would separate TEST and FLAGS from the other programming operations - please see the yellow frame in the picture of my OP. To repair that, TEST and FLAGS must be moved, too. Also PARTS would stand a bit isolated so it should move elsewhere as well. Please try to setup a new 'program operations center' next to [R/S] - I frankly admit lacking motivation.
Looking at the last consistent series of RPN calculator models HP made (Pioneers), we find [R/S] bottom right and [<-] at the right end of center row, followed by [E] and [+/-] going left. I like that :-)

Summing up, I'd stay with the layout of the OP until you return (or somebody else appears) with a better offer. Thanks for your understanding. Else feel free to convince me that my choice is wrong.

d:-)
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