Casio FX115MS bug

10312018, 07:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 11162019 10:45 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #1




Casio FX115MS bug
Tried solving a cubic using Casio FX115MS:
1295/24 X³  1295/12 X²  37/2 X + 0.248048 = 0 The calculator just crashed, with weird blinking random pixels ... Same cubic, but scaled, avoided the crash: f(X) = 1295 X³  2590 X²  444 X + 5.953152 = 0 > 3 roots = 2.157897584, 0.170399539, 0.012501955 Update: for accurate cubic roots, see my Kahan cubic solver post 

11012018, 11:14 AM
Post: #2




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Post this problem on forum dedicated to casio
https://community.casiocalc.org 

11012018, 08:16 PM
Post: #3




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
(10312018 07:02 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: Tried solving a cubic using Casio FX115MS: I got the same thing the first time I tried it. For the second time I tried it, it just blanked the screen for a couple of seconds, gave up, and went back to displaying the "a?" prompt! — Ian Abbott 

11022018, 09:14 PM
Post: #4




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Interestingly, On a Casio FX115ES Plus, the correct roots are obtained whether the coefficients are scaled or not


11032018, 02:41 PM
Post: #5




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
The bug only shows if coefficient(s) were entered as an expression.
It were the excess precision internal digits that tripped the solver. My guess is the algorithm assumed user entered a,b,c,d as numbers. Even if user entered more digits than calculator can handle, it only keep (truncated) 10 sig. digits. Example: 123.456789999 [=] [Ans]  123, we only get back 0.4567899 

11052018, 08:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 11052018 09:19 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #6




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Crashing Casio FX115MS with only a 7
X³/7 + X²/7  7X + 7 = 0 Also can crash with other number instead of 7: 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22 ... 

11072018, 08:15 PM
(This post was last modified: 09022019 07:42 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #7




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Even if no crashing, the results are not very good.
if X = 100, X³ + X = 1000100 Solve X³ + X  1000100 = 0 for X, should get back 100 Cubic solver gives back 100.0033332 ? I thought maybe it is due to rounding errors, trying to deflate cubic to quadratic. But, no. X = 100 is the only real root, the rest are complex: 50 ± √(7501) i The equation were *already* a depressed cubic, with r = 1/3, s = 1000100/2 From Thomas Klemm cubic formula thread, using the same calculator (to be fair): X = 2 √(r) sinh(1/3 * asinh(s/r^1.5)) = 100 Do this another way, with X = u  r/u, where u³ = (s + sign(s) √(s² + r³)) With r this small, and s negative, u³ ~ 2s = 1000100 u ~ 100.0033332 X = u  r/u = 100 Edit: if discriminant s² + r³ < 0, X = u  r/u imaginary part cancelled out: θ = acos(s/(r)^1.5) / 3 k = 2√(r) X = k*cos(θ), k*cos(θ + 120°), k*cos(θ + 240°), all real roots 

11072018, 08:33 PM
Post: #8




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
I have 2 questions
1. Why do you expect the exact result? Generally the solving doesn't provide the exact result. 2. Why the result 100.0033332 isn't good? The difference is 0,003 (0,003%) only, according to me it is perfect result. Generally the deviation 3  5 % is a good results. At least for engineers. 

11072018, 10:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 11212018 01:04 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #9




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Hi, klesl
I don't expect exact result. But the result seems not due to rounding errors. Relative errors of 0.003% is not the upper bound. Try this: X³ + 11 X  1000100 = 0 Cubic Solver still returned real root of 100.0033332 For above cubic, u is still about 100.0033332, but r is now 11/3 X = u  r/u = 99.96666778, so Solver result only have 3 good digits. If it is a generalized solver, maybe 3 or 4 good digits is enough. But, this is a specialized Cubic Solver, with known formula for it. Even worse case may be possible (example, by adding X² term) Update: Let Y = X  100, hoping for better luck: Y³ + 300 Y² + 30011 Y + 1000 = 0 Expecting Y correction of 0.03333222. Instead, I got +0.003333223 Cubic Solver get the sign wrong ! (Relative error of 110% !) 

11082018, 02:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 11082018 04:49 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #10




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Solving roots reciprocal, with coefficients in reversed order :
X³ + 11 X  1000100 = 0 Let x = 100/X, above turns to 1.0001 x³ + 0.0011 x² + 1 = 0 Cubic Solver get x = 1.000333299, X = 100/x = 99.96668121 Doing the same for Y=X100, y=1/Y, solved X is even better: Y³ + 300 Y² + 30011 Y + 1000 = 0 => 1000 y³ + 30011 y² + 300 y + 1 = 0 Cubic Solver get y = 30.00100144, X = 100 + 1/y = 99.96666778 Of course, since Y ~ 0, we could just iterate Y = (Y³ + 300 Y² + 1000) ÷ 30011 We have Y = 0 > 0.033321115 > 0.033332213 > 0.03333222 (converged) X = 100 + Y = 99.96666778 

11082018, 04:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 09022019 07:45 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #11




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
(11072018 08:15 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: The equation were *already* a depressed cubic, with r = 1/3, s = 1000100/2 ... I think I figured out the reason for loss of precision. Instead of using above formula, it uses this: X³ + (3r)X + (2s) = 0 X = ³√(s + √(s² + r³)) + ³√(s  √(s² + r³)) Above example, subtraction cancellation dropped the last term, we get X ~ u + 0 = u Comment on previous posts: Post #9: Y = X100 had no effect, because Cubic Solver revert it back to depressed cubic. Post #10: root reciprocal suffer less rounding errors because dropped term are smaller. x = 0.00036663 (shift to depress cubic) + 0.9999666689 + 0.0000001344 (dropped) = 1.000333299 

11242018, 07:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 10302019 11:34 PM by Albert Chan.)
Post: #12




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Solving cubic with hyperbolic sine formula, discovered Casio FX115MS asinh bug
(asinh bug also hit my Casio FX3650P ...) Solve X³ + 11 X  1000100 = 0 for X, using formula X = 2 √(r) sinh(1/3 * asinh(s/r^1.5)) asinh(s/r^1.5)) = asinh(500050/(11/3)^1.5) = asinh(71220.70789) = 11.86817286 ??? Even my pocket Casio FX260Solar get this right, asinh(71220.70789) = 11.86668608 My guess the problem is the Quadratic Solver subtraction cancellation. Solving sinh(x) = (exp(x)  1/exp(x))/2 = 71220.70789, solver gives exp(x) = 7.01e6 x = ln(7.01e6) = 11.86817286 (same as the produced bug) As a temporary fix, force asinh to use big root: asinh(x) = ln(√(x²+1) + x) =  ln(√(x²+1)  x) =  asinh(x) asinh(x) = sign(x) * asinh(x) asinh(71220.70789) = 1 * asinh(+71220.70789) = 11.86668608 

11242018, 08:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 11242018 08:31 PM by ijabbott.)
Post: #13




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
(11242018 07:25 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: Solving cubic with hyperbolic sine formula, discovered Casio FX115MS asinh bug Even the TI35X and TI36X SOLAR manage to get this one correct, although this parameter is too large to be affected by the Texas Instruments Logarithm Bug. (They are nice calculators, especially the versions with the rubber keys, but it's a shame about this bug.) — Ian Abbott 

11282018, 01:01 AM
Post: #14




RE: Casio FX115MS bug
Both my 9750G+ and GII gets it "right", but the two FX82s (TL/MS) don't. Interestingly, the Canon F804P gets it right. I'm puzzled as to why the two calculators dating to 2000ish are getting it wrong.
(Post 319) Regards, BrickViking HP50g Casio fx9750G+ Casio fx9750GII (SH4a) 

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