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[34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
04-19-2014, 03:58 PM
Post: #1
[34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
Hi all,

Meanwhile, those two manuals are almost ready to be published. They will be A5-sized, about 154 full colour pages for WP 31S, about 396 full colour pages for WP 34S (well, actually not all pages are full colour, but printing the labels in their natural colours affects so many pages that I didn't count the remaining b/w ones Wink ). The channels are not decided yet, however, since - AFAIK -
  • Kindle doesn't support colours,
  • CreateSpace (the shop printing the present WP 34S manual) really prints one by one on your individual demand at reasonable cost but definitivly doesn't support spiral binding,
  • other print shops support spiral binding but will de-facto require me to order a certain amount of books at once to avoid prohibitive prices per piece. So I'd sit on an inventory here which I'm not keen on doing when I don't know it will flow away - and this method would load all the end user shipping on me (another task I'm not keen on).
As much as I like spiral bound books, I'd have to ask for fixed orders then since I can't justify taking a risk of several hundred Euros without that. Is spiral binding worth that hassle? In any case I won't get rich by writing and selling manuals (and divided by the numbers of editing hours I'll only get cents per hour anyway) but I must avoid getting poor so I tend to stay with a publisher who may be suboptimal but has proven to work smoothly.

Any comments, advise, remarks etc. in that matter are appreciated.

d:-?
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04-19-2014, 06:16 PM
Post: #2
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
I plan to order one of each.
-Jonathan
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04-19-2014, 06:35 PM (This post was last modified: 04-19-2014 06:36 PM by Hubert Weikert.)
Post: #3
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
Please plan also one of each for me.
Hubert
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04-19-2014, 11:40 PM
Post: #4
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-19-2014 06:35 PM)Hubert Weikert Wrote:  Please plan also one of each for me.
Hubert
Me too, one of each.
Sylvain
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04-20-2014, 01:33 AM
Post: #5
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-19-2014 03:58 PM)walter b Wrote:  [*]Kindle doesn't support colours,

Kindle supports colors, though obviously they won't be seen on B&W devices, but they will be seen on color devices, on the Kindle App on phones and tablets, and in Kindle Cloud Reader.

For images nothing special has to be done. For text, the color has to be set using CSS, for instance, using
Code:
<span class="red">some red text</span>
in the HTML, and
Code:
span.red {color:red;}
in the CSS file.

Since you'd presumably be translating some other format into the HTML/CSS for use in KDP, whether this happens depends on what you use to do the translation.

I'd probably want both printed and ebook formats. Unless the formatting translates well into Kindle or ePub, I'd probably prefer PDF for the ebook.
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04-20-2014, 07:41 AM
Post: #6
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-19-2014 03:58 PM)walter b Wrote:  to avoid prohibitive prices per piece.

Is it very mundane to ask what those prices might be?
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04-20-2014, 01:54 PM
Post: #7
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-20-2014 07:41 AM)anetzer Wrote:  
(04-19-2014 03:58 PM)walter b Wrote:  to avoid prohibitive prices per piece.

Is it very mundane to ask what those prices might be?

No at all. For example, just making one single piece of the WP 31S Manual would be over 70 € spiral bound, while ordering a batch of ten from the same print shop would reduce printing cost per piece to some 16 €. Delivery, handling, etc. not included in either case, but sufficient to get an idea of the ballpark we'd be in.

d:-/
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04-21-2014, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 04-21-2014 03:13 PM by BarryMead.)
Post: #8
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
If you could determine how much more expensive the "Spiral Bound" version of the manual is than the
"Perfect Bound" version, perhaps you could offer both versions of the manual. I would pay extra to
be able to lay the spiral bound book open to the page I was reading while operating the calculator.
With the perfect bound book, it is difficult to hold the book open to the page you are reading while
operating the calculator. Let the "SALES" decide which manual is moving better, then you could
choose which one to buy in bulk. Or maybe you could have a little poll here to see if people would
pay extra for the spiral bound version, or would they prefer a cheaper manual with the perfect binding?

What do you think?
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04-22-2014, 03:29 AM
Post: #9
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-21-2014 03:09 PM)BarryMead Wrote:  What do you think?

Assuming you meant me (did I tell you I 'love' the ambiguities of the English language? Wink ): Your post raises exactly the kind of discussion why I started this thread. Smile BTW, I think "perfect bound" is an euphemism, PB is for "paperback" IMHO.

d:-)
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04-22-2014, 04:32 AM
Post: #10
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
Forgive my use of a technical term. My family is in the publishing business, and the term "perfect bound" is the name the printers use for paperback type book bindings. It has nothing to do with the word "perfect" in any other sense. Do you think a poll would help you to determine how much to invest in each/either type of binding for the new batch of manuals?
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04-22-2014, 04:52 AM
Post: #11
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-22-2014 04:32 AM)BarryMead Wrote:  Do you think a poll would help you to determine how much to invest in each/either type of binding for the new batch of manuals?

Looks like a hen-and-egg problem. To know whether a spiral bound pays the additional cost you need to know the demand. And the demand is certainly depending on the price. Anyway, I'll try to estimate prices later today or tomorrow.

d:-)
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04-23-2014, 08:45 PM (This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 07:58 PM by walter b.)
Post: #12
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
Hmmh, smaller size = easier handling, but more pages = higher cost. I've reduced the number of pages to confine costs for the WP 34S manual (it will contain next to no inter-chapter pictures now). Looks like the following now:
  • Paperback 6" x 9" (152mm x 229mm) edition would be available for 26 US$ (31S Manual) and/or 43 US$ (34S Manual) plus shipping. Would be individual direct ordering and shipping as known so far again.
  • Spiral bound A5 (148mm x 210mm) edition would be available for 29 US$ (31S) and/or 39 US$ (34S) plus shipping IF there were at least 20 (twenty) fixed orders for each. Shipping would be from good ol' Europe then.
  • Don't ask me about the logic behind the printing costs - I don't know it either. The text is written on A5 anyway - the paperback size is only since that printshop doesn't offer A5 (so much about adherence to ISO in that very special country again).
What do you think?

d:-)

Edit about shipping spiral bound manuals from Germany to the USA: Total weight of envelope plus one manual of each kind will be less than 1kg for sure - so padded envelope plus postage will be 8.5 € maximum. If total weight will be less than 0.5kg, total shipping cost will be 5 €. The latter will be the case for the WP 31S Manual. The WP 34S Manual will be tight - I can't predict it without having the real book and the real envelope.
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04-23-2014, 11:18 PM
Post: #13
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)walter b Wrote:  
  • Spiral bound A5 (148mm x 210mm) edition would be available for 29 US$ (31S) and/or 39 US$ (34S) plus shipping IF there were at least 20 (twenty) fixed orders for each. Shipping would be from good ol' Europe then.
What do you think?

The spiral bound ones for me, if possible. If we cannot get 20 orders together, I'll go for the paperback versions of both.

Do you have any idea of the shipping costs from Europe to the USA for the spiral-bound books?

Thanks!

-Jonathan
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04-23-2014, 11:34 PM
Post: #14
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)walter b Wrote:  Hmmh, smaller size = easier handling, but more pages = higher cost. I've reduced the number of pages to confine costs for the WP 34S manual (it will contain next to no inter-chapter pictures now).

What do you think?

d:-)

Walter - Thanks for doing the research for these options; I know from past experience it's a lot of work to be able to put together these simple sounding choices.

I am a bit concerned about the WP-34S (and I suppose the 31S as well since it's based on the 34S) being reduced in size and am curious how well/clearly the pages will reduce.

The recent project done by dizzy to print the originally letter-sized 50g AUR pages to A5 came out quite nicely, but I must admit my eyes are not what they once were, and I find it quite a bit harder to read than the full-sized originals (note: printing job was excellent, it's just a natural result of the PDF reduction).

Could you post a few pages of the reduced-size 34S manual to see the effect of page-size reduction? I picked some pages (from the printed 34S manual) as random samples of different content styles to see how they appear in A5: 31, 38, 122, 148, 190, and 239. Please feel free to pick any pages you think best convey the reduction quality.

All that said, I believe the extra cost for the spiral bound A5 version is well worth it, even if it also adds a bit more (for me) for shipment from Europe, as when I use these manuals I definitely need to lay them flat to work with the machine.

--Bob Prosperi
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04-24-2014, 12:42 AM (This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 12:43 AM by BarryMead.)
Post: #15
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
You can count me in for a Spiral bound copy of the 34S manual. Thanks Walter
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04-24-2014, 03:43 AM
Post: #16
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-23-2014 11:18 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)walter b Wrote:  
  • Spiral bound A5 (148mm x 210mm) edition would be available for 29 US$ (31S) and/or 39 US$ (34S) plus shipping IF there were at least 20 (twenty) fixed orders for each. Shipping would be from good ol' Europe then.
What do you think?

The spiral bound ones for me, if possible. If we cannot get 20 orders together, I'll go for the paperback versions of both.

Do you have any idea of the shipping costs from Europe to the USA for the spiral-bound books?

Thanks!

-Jonathan

Same for me.

Sylvain
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04-24-2014, 03:59 AM
Post: #17
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-23-2014 08:45 PM)walter b Wrote:  What do you think?

Spiral bound 31S manual looks good to me. I already have the printed 34S manual. Thanks Walter!

-- Sanjeev Visvanatha
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04-24-2014, 04:24 AM
Post: #18
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
Bob,

(04-23-2014 11:34 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Thanks for doing the research for these options ...

You are welcome.

Quote:I am a bit concerned about the WP-34S (and I suppose the 31S as well since it's based on the 34S) being reduced in size and am curious how well/clearly the pages will reduce.

Thanks for asking. This is not a simple size reduction by a factor 1.414 (going from A4 to A5) but the text and tables were all dealt with individually. Font size was reduced by just 10% typically. Hence the increased number of pages. Just look at the equivalent of p. 31, for example:

.pdf  Manual_wp_34s_3_3_47f.pdf (Size: 50.93 KB / Downloads: 109)

Are you satisfied?

d:-)
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04-24-2014, 06:19 AM
Post: #19
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
Spiral bound manual for me too.
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04-24-2014, 06:23 AM
Post: #20
RE: [34S v3.3, 31S v1.2] Manuals
(04-24-2014 06:19 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  Spiral bound manual for me too.

Which one??

d:-?
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