Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
08-02-2018, 08:30 PM
Post: #1
 math7 Member Posts: 183 Joined: Feb 2017
Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
Hello, I think the HP 35s is a good calculator, programmable with good 30KB memory, elegant and easy to use. But I'm doing some programs and I found the programs that can be called with a label, and that you can only use labels from A to Z and only one character for what I understood in the manual. So, how can you do it if you have more than 30 programs stored in the HP 35 for different things, if you can only use 26 labels, one for each program? I think this is a major limitation in the programming of this calculator and similar HP ones! Although you have enough memory, you can limit yourself to only 26 programs or less, and you can not repeat the label because you have a duplication error, and if you can use a program with several subroutines each one has to carry your label too, then how to program more? Should other programs be deleted then?
Is there a trick to be able to program beyond 26 programs?
08-02-2018, 10:12 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2018 10:13 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #2
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
(08-02-2018 08:30 PM)math7 Wrote:  Hello, I think the HP 35s is a good calculator, programmable with good 30KB memory, elegant and easy to use. But I'm doing some programs and I found the programs that can be called with a label, and that you can only use labels from A to Z and only one character for what I understood in the manual. So, how can you do it if you have more than 30 programs stored in the HP 35 for different things, if you can only use 26 labels, one for each program?

26 different programs is quite a lot for such a calculator. Earlier HPs (and calculators from other manufacturers) had 5 or 10 label keys, sometimes even less, or they were limited to 10 routines that could be called by GSB 0...GSB 9. Others even had no labels at all.

The 35s can use 26 different alpha labels. But you can have as many starting points within these programs as you like. Remember: [XEQ] A [ENTER] is just a shortcut for XEQ A001, i.e. start program A at its line 001. But you can just as well start a program with XEQ A010 or XEQ A222. This way you could for instance have a program with five different functions that are called via XEQ A001, XEQ A002, ... XEQ A005:

Code:
A001 GTO A170 // jump to where the first function starts A002 GTO A093 // jump to where the second function starts A003 GTO A123 // jump to where the third function starts A004 GTO A030 // jump to where the fourth function starts A005 ... // fifth function starts here ... A029 RTN // fifth function ends here A030 ... // fourth function starts here ... A092 RTN // fourth function ends here A093 ... // second function starts here ... etc.

(08-02-2018 08:30 PM)math7 Wrote:  I think this is a major limitation in the programming of this calculator and similar HP ones!

If you really think so, get an HP-41C/CV/CX or an HP-42s. Or a DM-42. Here you can have named labels with up to six or seven characters.

(08-02-2018 08:30 PM)math7 Wrote:  Although you have enough memory, you can limit yourself to only 26 programs or less,

Memory is not only intended for programs, but for data as well. Imagine what size of a matrix you can invert on the 35s, even compared to a 41CV.

(08-02-2018 08:30 PM)math7 Wrote:  ...and if you can use a program with several subroutines each one has to carry your label too, then how to program more?

I don't understand what you mean here. Please explain in detail.

Generally speaking, subroutines within a program do not need additional labels. If your program starts with LBL C then its subroutines can be called with XEQ C050, XEQ C123 etc.

Dieter
08-02-2018, 11:59 PM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2018 12:01 AM by John Keith.)
Post: #3
 John Keith Senior Member Posts: 721 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
Additionally, there is no way of saving programs or data on the 35s, and no way of getting data into the calculator except the keyboard. Probably not the best calculator for those who want to store lots of programs etc. on the calc.

The HP41, 71, 48/50 series, and the Prime are able to transfer programs to and from external storage.
08-03-2018, 06:37 AM
Post: #4
 math7 Member Posts: 183 Joined: Feb 2017
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
(08-02-2018 11:59 PM)John Keith Wrote:  Additionally, there is no way of saving programs or data on the 35s, and no way of getting data into the calculator except the keyboard. Probably not the best calculator for those who want to store lots of programs etc. on the calc.

The HP41, 71, 48/50 series, and the Prime are able to transfer programs to and from external storage.

Yes that is true John Keith, however this calculator is quite good and efficient, so I was interested to know how it could be done if equipped with several math or physics programs that are more than what labels allow, but yes, maybe an HP 50g or the Prime that I also have it are more sophisticated, only for simpler things I prefer to use the HP 35s.
08-03-2018, 06:47 AM
Post: #5
 math7 Member Posts: 183 Joined: Feb 2017
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
Thank you very much Dieter,

you just clarified the doubts I had, now if I understand how to do when the limit of the labels is reached, using the XEQ instruction and the line number where the program we want to nest inside a bigger one begins, it is a great idea. In this way there would be no problem with the top of 26 labels! Thanks for clarifying ...

And yes, I hope to be able to buy a DM42 soon, I just have to adjust the money a bit and send it to bring ... And of course, you can also save many equations in the 35s apart from the programs, it's a shame that you do not have a multiple Solver to solve multiple equations like Prime, 50g and 17bii +.
08-03-2018, 05:46 PM
Post: #6
 Dave Britten Senior Member Posts: 1,928 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
The 35S would have benefited from - among many other things that have been repeated over the years - local labels instead of the line number silliness. Treat the alpha labels as global, and two-digit numeric labels (entered by pressing shift first) as a local label within that program/alpha label. It would have been a nice middle-ground between the 32S and 41C.
08-03-2018, 08:12 PM
Post: #7
 math7 Member Posts: 183 Joined: Feb 2017
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
one more thing, What is the difference between program lines and registers in the calculator? According to the manual, 801 indirect records can be used, but how are they assigned a name to call them?
08-03-2018, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2018 09:30 PM by Rogier.)
Post: #8
 Rogier Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
The 35s is relatively new to me, but I understand you can approach registers A trough Z directly from the keyboard or indirectly by using (i) or (j) with a negative number (-1 trough -26).

The other registers can be used indirectly only. This is done by using one of your indirect registers (i) or (j) with a positive number (0-800).

There is a training aid on this subject (hp 35s Using the indirect registers) that is worth reading. You can find the training aids here: http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/download...g_aids.pdf
08-03-2018, 10:20 PM
Post: #9
 Matt Agajanian Senior Member Posts: 542 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
(08-03-2018 09:21 PM)Rogier Wrote:  The 35s is relatively new to me, but I understand you can approach registers A trough Z directly from the keyboard or indirectly by using (i) or (j) with a negative number (-1 trough -26).

The other registers can be used indirectly only. This is done by using one of your indirect registers (i) or (j) with a positive number (0-800).

There is a training aid on this subject (hp 35s Using the indirect registers) that is worth reading. You can find the training aids here: http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/download...g_aids.pdf

This is helpful for a single Training Aid. What’s the URL For the list of all the Training Aids?

Thank you
08-03-2018, 10:27 PM
Post: #10
 Gene Moderator Posts: 1,198 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
If you try to find these on the HP site, you'll get a 404 Not found error, which is not a surprise. :-(

I found them all here in one PDF.

HP-35S learning modules
08-03-2018, 10:31 PM
Post: #11
 Matt Agajanian Senior Member Posts: 542 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
(08-03-2018 10:27 PM)Gene Wrote:  If you try to find these on the HP site, you'll get a 404 Not found error, which is not a surprise. :-(

I found them all here in one PDF.

HP-35S learning modules

Wow! The whole kit & kaboodle! Thanks!
08-03-2018, 10:35 PM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2018 10:37 PM by Gene.)
Post: #12
 Gene Moderator Posts: 1,198 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
Learning modules were written for all the HP's made in the 2000-2012 (?) date range. They exist for the...

HP-9S
HP-9G
HP-30S
HP-10s
HP-8s
HP-20b
HP-30b
HP-10bII
HP-10bII+
HP-12C
HP-12CP
HP-17BII+
HP-33S
HP-35S
HP-39G
HP-39G+
HP-40G
HP-48gII
HP-49G+
HP-50G+

and probably a few more that don't come to mind right now. All of these have at one time or another been on the HHC provided thumb drives.
08-03-2018, 11:13 PM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2018 11:18 PM by Matt Agajanian.)
Post: #13
 Matt Agajanian Senior Member Posts: 542 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Problem when programming in HP 35s and other calculators
Double wow! That would make quite for quite an impressive reference & training library, and resource kit! I’m impressed.
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