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New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
07-21-2018, 12:21 AM (This post was last modified: 07-21-2018 12:30 AM by JDW.)
Post: #21
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
I'm actually not physically in CA at my mailing address at the moment and will have my 2 calculators forwarded to my primary residence in Japan. You say I will be able to see if they are the now versions, but how? Can you please shoot me a photo of the new packaging and point out where, specifically, you look on the packaging to confirm that it is indeed the new 2AP18AA version?

By the way, it's not just Walmart, but other major calculator sellers still say the "latest version" is G8X92AA:

https://www.bachcompany.com/product.aspx?ProductID=546
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07-21-2018, 02:02 AM
Post: #22
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
I wonder: will not it be that the Prime G2 has a new processor because of the problem that was discovered a few months ago of the Meltdown and Specter faults? Will the new processor be to remedy possible failures?

https://www.xataka.com/seguridad/meltdow...-amd-y-arm
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07-21-2018, 05:16 AM
Post: #23
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
Since the G2 is being advertised all over the internet, and the existence of the new model is no longer a secret, it would probably be helpful at this point to have a "non-official" post to avoid further speculation!

Spec differences and packaging identification would be useful..
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07-21-2018, 08:16 AM
Post: #24
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-21-2018 02:02 AM)math7 Wrote:  I wonder: will not it be that the Prime G2 has a new processor because of the problem that was discovered a few months ago of the Meltdown and Specter faults? Will the new processor be to remedy possible failures?

It's more likely due to the old processor being no longer manufactured since 2014/2015.

— Ian Abbott
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07-21-2018, 09:22 AM
Post: #25
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-21-2018 02:02 AM)math7 Wrote:  I wonder: will not it be that the Prime G2 has a new processor because of the problem that was discovered a few months ago of the Meltdown and Specter faults? Will the new processor be to remedy possible failures?

Also, the HP Prime security model is non-existant. As in, there's nothing stopping you from running third-party code on it. We've run Linux, homebrew firmwares and the NumWorks platform on it merely by flashing a custom PRIME_OS.ROM file. Vulnerabilities to Spectre/Meltdown are simply moot.

It doesn't necessarily mean the G2 will be the same though.
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07-21-2018, 09:26 AM
Post: #26
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-21-2018 12:21 AM)JDW Wrote:  You say I will be able to see if they are the now versions, but how? Can you please shoot me a photo of the new packaging and point out where, specifically, you look on the packaging to confirm that it is indeed the new 2AP18AA version?

   
The picture from internet.
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07-21-2018, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 07-21-2018 10:03 PM by JDW.)
Post: #27
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
Voldemar, thank you for the photo. It's the same 2016 copyrighted package I've seen elsewhere. No surprise, as I would expect any new version to have a 2018 copyright date on back, not 2016. Logical, right?

So whoever out there reading this has one of the 2AP18AA versions, please shoot us a photo of the back of the packaging, especially the bottom right area around the bar code. Thanks.

UPDATE: I confirmed the number on the package back (lower right, above bar code) of the 2 Primes I ordered from Walmart this month. They both say:

G8X92AA#ABA

That is also the same exact model that Best Buy still advertises:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-prime-po...Id=4222301
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07-23-2018, 10:48 AM
Post: #28
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-20-2018 03:02 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  I actually ordered a Prime from Amazon today, listed as model number G8X92AA#B1S (i.e. a Rev C). I'll wait and see which model I actually receive!

My new HP Prime turned up today, It wasn't the G2; it was the Rev C that I ordered (just before I found out about the G2).

The G2 is still a bit of an unknown quantity at present. Has anyone received one yet?

— Ian Abbott
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07-23-2018, 05:55 PM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2018 05:56 PM by StephenG1CMZ.)
Post: #29
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
I was wondering if I had missed an announcement about the G2 that everyone is talking about... But the forum needs at least 3 characters to search Sad

Stephen Lewkowicz (G1CMZ)
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07-23-2018, 06:08 PM
Post: #30
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-23-2018 05:55 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  I was wondering if I had missed an announcement about the G2 that everyone is talking about... But the forum needs at least 3 characters to search Sad

I think we all are waiting expectantly...
There has been a (clearly unofficial) announcement on tiplanet regarding the G2 however:
https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php...ead#unread

So theres that...
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07-24-2018, 12:02 AM (This post was last modified: 07-24-2018 12:05 AM by ijabbott.)
Post: #31
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-23-2018 06:08 PM)Stevetuc Wrote:  
(07-23-2018 05:55 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  I was wondering if I had missed an announcement about the G2 that everyone is talking about... But the forum needs at least 3 characters to search Sad

I think we all are waiting expectantly...
There has been a (clearly unofficial) announcement on tiplanet regarding the G2 however:
https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php...ead#unread

So theres that...

What we know so far is that the CPU appears to be an NXP MCIMX6Y2 i.MX 6ULL which has an Arm Cortex-A7 core. (The "MCIMX6Y2" string is present in the firmware image in various FreeRTOS kernel source pathnames. I guess support for that CPU in FreeRTOS is fairly new as I can't find it mentioned on the FreeRTOS or NXP web-sites.)

The MCIMX6Y2 is available in two commercial speed grades (core frequencies of 528 MHz or 900 MHz) and in two industrial speed grades (528 MHz or 792 MHz). Assuming the HP Prime G2 uses 528 MHz, and given the other speed advantages of the Cortex-A7 regarding cache usage, it should run a bit faster than the Prime G1's 400 MHz ARM9 processor.

— Ian Abbott
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07-24-2018, 07:51 AM
Post: #32
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-24-2018 12:02 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  Assuming the HP Prime G2 uses 528 MHz, and given the other speed advantages of the Cortex-A7 regarding cache usage, it should run a bit faster than the Prime G1's 400 MHz ARM9 processor.

With the Prime using a built-in Lithium rechargeable battery, power usage is less of a concern than if it were using disposable alkaline batteries, so there is the possibility that it'll run at 792MHz anyway (perhaps switchable by an HP-PPL command).

A prime running at almost twice the speed of its predecessor and with an improved CPU architecture is something I would like to see!

The biggest problem is a total absence of bricks & mortar stores selling the Prime, so you can't go and look at what you're buying. You have to rely on online stores actually knowing in the first place and providing accurate information on their websites for you to make an informed choice whether or not to hit that "buy" button.

I already have two Rev. C Primes but will happily go out and buy a G2 when it becomes available.
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07-24-2018, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 07-24-2018 10:57 AM by ijabbott.)
Post: #33
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-24-2018 07:51 AM)grsbanks Wrote:  
(07-24-2018 12:02 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  Assuming the HP Prime G2 uses 528 MHz, and given the other speed advantages of the Cortex-A7 regarding cache usage, it should run a bit faster than the Prime G1's 400 MHz ARM9 processor.

With the Prime using a built-in Lithium rechargeable battery, power usage is less of a concern than if it were using disposable alkaline batteries, so there is the possibility that it'll run at 792MHz anyway (perhaps switchable by an HP-PPL command).

If the G2 is using the consumer grade processor (which I mistakenly referred to as "commercial grade" in my previous post), the next step up from 528 MHz is 900 MHz for this CPU. The CPU supports frequency and voltage scaling, so it would only need to run at top speed during a processor-intensive activity. There are thermal considerations too - if it's running at a higher speed, it's going to get hotter.

Quote:A prime running at almost twice the speed of its predecessor and with an improved CPU architecture is something I would like to see!

As long as it doesn't run at top speed while it is merely waiting for key input!

Quote:The biggest problem is a total absence of bricks & mortar stores selling the Prime, so you can't go and look at what you're buying. You have to rely on online stores actually knowing in the first place and providing accurate information on their websites for you to make an informed choice whether or not to hit that "buy" button.

That's certainly a problem in the UK market. They could compete with the Casio fx-CG50 and fx-CP400 / fx-CG500 if they made the effort. HP UK's educational marketing department seems to be mostly pushing their line of tablet-style notebook PCs. If they could persuade UK shops such as Argos, WH Smith and Ryman to stock the HP Prime, that would be a start! (Ryman already sell the HP 39gII, possibly only online but you can collect them from their stores.)

Quote:I already have two Rev. C Primes but will happily go out and buy a G2 when it becomes available.

I think I'll just stick with the one for now.

— Ian Abbott
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07-24-2018, 10:55 AM
Post: #34
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
Perhaps this thread (which admittedly has drifted a bit with speculation about the G2 model) should include an "(Unofficial)" tag to avoid confusion with Tim's thread about the software update, and include a link to Tim's thread in the first post.

— Ian Abbott
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07-24-2018, 12:54 PM
Post: #35
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-24-2018 10:55 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  Perhaps this thread (which admittedly has drifted a bit with speculation about the G2 model) should include an "(Unofficial)" tag to avoid confusion with Tim's thread about the software update, and include a link to Tim's thread in the first post.

Yes. It was poor form for the OP to label this thread as if it were an official release of the firmware.

smp
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07-24-2018, 02:28 PM
Post: #36
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-24-2018 12:54 PM)smp Wrote:  
(07-24-2018 10:55 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  Perhaps this thread (which admittedly has drifted a bit with speculation about the G2 model) should include an "(Unofficial)" tag to avoid confusion with Tim's thread about the software update, and include a link to Tim's thread in the first post.

Yes. It was poor form for the OP to label this thread as if it were an official release of the firmware.

I'd put it down to being a newbie on the forum who might not have realized that it's generally the HP calculator group employees who have the job of announcing new firmware updates.

— Ian Abbott
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07-25-2018, 05:40 AM
Post: #37
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
Hello

"The CPU supports frequency and voltage scaling, so it would only need to run at top speed during a processor-intensive activity. There are thermal considerations too - if it's running at a higher speed, it's going to get hotter"

Speed scaling is "hard"...
Windows type OS do it by monitoring workload accross multiple CPU and threads. Mostly, they look at the amount of time spent doing nothing (Idle)...

However, a calculator is different (I implemented frequency scaling in the 20b series among others)...

It is different because it is either doing nothing, or doing something.

The problem is in knowing when the 'something' needs a speed boost.
Handling the '+' key? Easy? no boost? Unless the end result is the display of a very large list/matrix that will require a lot of computation from the 2D display..

When doing things like this, you also want to have the scaling done, as much as possible, at the OS level, so that you do not have to put scaling calls everywhere in the software...

On the 20B, it worked like so:
- CPU in low speed, Idle mode.
- User presses key, CPU goes to medium speed
- if key handling is longer than 1/10th of a second, CPU goes to high speed (as it was obviously a long operation)
- if the key handling is longer than 2s (number might be incorrect), CPU gets throttled down as high speed CPU draws too much power on the battery. Battery is OK with a "peek" power, but only for a short period of time.
- handling completes and we return to low speed, Idle mode.

There is also some "black" magic involved in selecting the CPU speed. You want to pick speeds that have correspond to inflextions in the Power/Watt curve (which is non linear).

Also, pay attention to memory wait state. On the 20b, going from 20 to 21Mhz meant that the flash had to change from 0 to 1 wait state. The net result was a slow down of the system!

Some CPU also take "time" to switch from one frequency to the next. Time during which you need to stop everything. On some CPU, it can be a couple of ms!
Some CPU have all the periferials driven out of the same clock. So, changing the CPU speed means reconfiguration of ALL periferials. Meaning that they have to be shut down and restarted! This can also be complicated!

Cyrille

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own. I do not speak for HP.
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07-25-2018, 07:15 AM (This post was last modified: 07-25-2018 07:17 AM by Stevetuc.)
Post: #38
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
(07-25-2018 05:40 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  Hello

"The CPU supports frequency and voltage scaling, so it would only need to run at top speed during a processor-intensive activity. There are thermal considerations too - if it's running at a higher speed, it's going to get hotter"

Speed scaling is "hard".... [.....]

Cyrille, Thanks for the interesting detail about speed scaling. Can we infer from this that the G2 currently runs at a constant speed?
Could you tell us what this speed is? I guess this will be public soon anyway if it differs from the old 400MHz to avoid misleading advertising all over the internet.
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07-26-2018, 01:51 PM
Post: #39
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
Hello,

One of the solutions is to set a complexity flag using a value from 0 to 5 (depends on the available scaling steps) for all the internal math functions (they are not unlimited) and after each calculation request, quickly evaluate the functions going to be called and set the speed scaling to the highest flag. The downside is to have to go through all the functions and evaluate the complexity and the need for the power. Good idea is to set them by family, I don't know how the source code is structured and how it handles the call to the different functions (are they grouped by type, family) in this case it should be easier to implement.

I would also use highest speed when running programs and apps (usually a program is made to do complex and repetitive operations or even games) so this may be set by default to high. Same goes for Matrix calculations and known to be demanding preinstalled applications

This was just my two cents contribution
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07-27-2018, 04:21 PM
Post: #40
RE: New Version: 2018.07.06 2.0.0.13865
solve((x^2-2*x+1)/(x^2+9*x-10)≥0,x)。return{x<-10,x≥1}。but x=1 is not allowed
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