MANPIP
04-12-2014, 04:58 AM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2014 04:59 AM by Thomas Klemm.)
Post: #21
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,804 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
(04-09-2014 02:28 PM)Jerussi Wrote:  For example: I would enter N=0.013, Q=12 (CFS), D= no input, S=.01 (for 1%), Y= no input and it would calculate the size pipe in diameter (inches) required to flow 12 CFS at 1% in a concrete pipe with a N=0.013.
.013 [STO] [N]
12 [STO] [Q]
.01 [STO] [S]
[D]
D=1.5768
[R/S]
V=6.1451

Quote:or I could enter N=0.013, Q= no input, D=15 (inches), S=.01, Y= no input and it would calculate the flow "Q" in CFS that a 15 inch concrete pipe can carry at 1%.
Since N=0.013 and S=.01 are the same you don't have to enter them again.
15 [ENTER] 12 / [STO] [D] [STO] [Y]
[Q]
Q=6.4594
[R/S]
V=5.2636

Cheers
Thomas
04-12-2014, 05:01 AM
Post: #22
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,804 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
(04-10-2014 12:28 PM)Jerussi Wrote:  Also, this event has had me get reacquainted with my 41's.
That's the best.
04-12-2014, 10:54 AM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2014 10:56 AM by Thomas Klemm.)
Post: #23
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,804 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
(04-12-2014 04:29 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:
Code:
;...............; calculate initial guess (...) /               ; max_t*acos(1-2*sqrt(q/max_q))/pi

For those curious about this formula here's the comparison of the function $$f(t)$$ and its approximation $$g(t)$$:
$f(t)=\frac{1}{q_{max}}\sqrt[3]{\frac{(t-\sin(t))^5}{t^2}}$
$g(t)=\frac{1}{4}(1-\cos(\frac{\pi t}{t_{max}}))^2$

The approximation $$g(t)$$ can be inverted algebraically.

Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)

04-12-2014, 07:07 PM
Post: #24
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
I am working today. Took a break and uploaded via wand and works like you describe it. I am getting good with the wand again. Entered all 24 rows without a single checksum error!

Now it is needed to solve for D sometimes. We'll know Q, the S we have and of course the N. We then need to solve for D. I think the old MANPIP program would solve for the exact diameter required (full flow) and provide that diameter (i.e. 14.2"), then I would use a 15 inch conc. pipe.

I have come accross two programs that might have some good code in them. One is the HP Pipe Slide Rule program from the Fluid Dynamics Solutions book. The other is a program I found at the HP Museum site titled Flow Comps. That program does rectangular, triangular, trapezoidal, circular, and parabolic channels. It is very large and has over 500 lines. I am attaching them. In several posts. Maybe there are some good routines that can be incorporated easily by someone with your abilities.

Again, thank you very much for taking the time you have working on this. So far I have been amazed.

Attached File(s)
04-12-2014, 07:21 PM
Post: #25
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
The PDF documentation for PSR

Attached File(s)
04-12-2014, 07:40 PM
Post: #26
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
Flow Computations program documentation is 2.4MB. I do not have bar code. I did locate a raw file, but cannot upload to this site. I also cannot load the documentation as they indicate I reached my 3MB limit. I can e-mail if you send an address if that is allowed. Or an FTP site???
04-12-2014, 08:26 PM
Post: #27
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,804 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
(04-12-2014 07:07 PM)Jerussi Wrote:  Now it is needed to solve for D sometimes. We'll know Q, the S we have and of course the N. We then need to solve for D. I think the old MANPIP program would solve for the exact diameter required (full flow) and provide that diameter (i.e. 14.2"), then I would use a 15 inch conc. pipe.
This can already be done with the program: just enter Q, S and n and then solve for d. You could then enter d = 15/12 and solve for y. However you can't specify Q, S, n and y and then solve for d. Is that a use-case as well?

Cheers
Thomas
04-12-2014, 08:31 PM
Post: #28
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
You are right - It works nicely. I will run some calcs with it on Monday as I have some real world comps that need to be QA/QC'd. Hope you are having as good weather as we are here in Northern Virginia!
04-22-2014, 05:18 PM
Post: #29
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
I have attached the partial listing (80%) of the program "MANPIPE" retrieved from old magnetic cards.

I tested the program and here is what I found:

1. The USER key must be set manually
2. QF works
3. DI runs but gives strange results. With Q= 10 CFS @ S=.01 ft/ft, (N=.013) the result is “DI= 13E-2 IN”
4. Y doesn’t work. Does not run
5. S works
6. QP works

Cards that loaded fine: 1 of 5, 3 of 5, 4 of 5, and 5 of 5
Card that had error was 2 of 5

From looking at the printout I see LBL’s for A, C, D, and E but not one for B. That must have been on card 2 of 5.

Lines 212, 223, 228, 233, and 228 should show the flying goose symbol before the text. I believe it is “ALPHA shift K”

Attached File(s)
04-24-2014, 04:01 PM
Post: #30
 SlideRule Senior Member Posts: 1,325 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
Quote:... documentation is 2.4MB ... I did locate a raw file... I can e-mail

I'm interested in the raw file. Is the URL taboo?

SlideRule
04-24-2014, 04:15 PM
Post: #31
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
Send me your e-mail address to mjerussi@pennoni.com and I will e-mail you the .raw file. for the Flow Computations program. It is not the Manpipe program.
04-27-2014, 06:58 AM
Post: #32
 Ángel Martin Senior Member Posts: 1,370 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
Is this the same program as "CONDUIT FLOW" , included in the Fluid Dynamics Solutions Book?

There's also another more comprehensive program written by Martin J. Hanson, available at TOS, "Flow Computations for Various Open Channel Configurations" . See attached.

if you use V41 or have Clonix/NoVRAM you may want to try the Fluid Dynamics module I put together, which has both programs already loaded.

Cheers,
'AM

Attached File(s)
04-27-2014, 12:05 PM
Post: #33
 SlideRule Senior Member Posts: 1,325 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
(04-07-2014 06:00 PM)Jerussi Wrote:  I just recently lost a program titled "MANPIP" ... the program was an open channel flow calculator for circular pipe using Manning's equation.

Jerussi

Any hints for the origin or source of "MANPIP": magazine article, User Library, book..?

SlideRule
04-28-2014, 02:35 PM
Post: #34
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
I do not believe it is the same as the Conduit Flow program.
04-28-2014, 02:42 PM
Post: #35
 Jerussi Junior Member Posts: 20 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: MANPIP
The origin of "MANPIP" is unknown to me. An old boss of mine ordered it back in the 80's. He received the barcode for the program and we entered it into our 41's. He has since passed so the original sheets with the barcode have been lost. I managed to retrieve 80% of the program from magnetic cards. One of the 5 cards was damaged (the second one). I am trying to recreate the missing code.
04-28-2014, 08:54 PM
Post: #36
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,804 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: MANPIP
(04-27-2014 06:58 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote:  There's also another more comprehensive program written by Martin J. Hanson, available at TOS, "Flow Computations for Various Open Channel Configurations" . See attached.

For those interested:
On page 12 is a sample problem for a circular culvert. At step 11 there's a prompt for DEPTH = ?. If you don't input a value for Normal Depth (i.e. just press R/S instead) you are asked to input a value for flow. From this the Normal Depth is calculated.

What's missing is to calculate D when n, S, y and Q are given.

Cheers
Thomas
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