Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage?
02-24-2018, 11:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 11:22 AM by pier4r.)
Post: #7
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,108 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage?
(02-19-2018 03:31 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  The HP-71 does what I think you're looking for. Files reside in RAM (not flash or EEPROM), and can be expanded or contracted easily, and it's pretty transparent from the user's perspective.

Yes exactly, thanks for the info.
Anyway some limitations on my side: no 71B (and no budget for it), the ram in the 50g is already of the same size, and no "modern" connection with a computer as far as I know.
Anyway the concept is exactly that, more or less.

(02-23-2018 10:09 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  I think you want some kind of virtual memory management. With VMM you CAN have the whole thing in RAM, or at least you think you do, while the operating system swaps data to disk in/out as you use your data.
Yes, thanks for finding the technical term. Also thanks for your post in general.

Quote:You should probably start thinking of your "paging" solution before you run out of space.

Yes for the info that I got so far, yes. In my case performance is not that of an hassle . As long as I can store the data in the object within 30 seconds. I am willing to wait 30seconds, other people maybe not.

If I understood correctly newRPL has a sort of virtual memory management, or anyway I can work on the data that is directly stored on the SD card without being completely recalled in ram, right?

And sure also the format is important, as in every case the solution has to fit the available resources (deadline, time, skill, willpower, hardware, etc.).
I guess I will slowly refactor from using a directory of list on the RAM, to a directory of incremental lists on the SD card, with the last increment in ram. Similar to what Claudio suggested.

String & co would be maybe better (see space optimization) but then the helper routines may grow larger and I am not sure whether I will have the time to maintain them every time I find a bug.

For example my data collection started in June 2017 (I mentioned it sometimes in other topics) and the directory was like 2-3kb. I predicted 80-100 bytes more every day, but my prediction is not really holding, or better it is more complicated.
For the moment I collected in every category about 250 points. The directory (included backup routines, that changed over time as I fixed them) is 22 kilobytes.
The average is 88 bytes added per day but actually the data added recently is bigger than before because I added some new categories.
The helper routines for the moment require at least 2 times the space free to be sure that no conflicts arise (because the code is not extra refined). So I need in total 66kb.

So trying to overestimate (but not too much), with 250 bytes added per day, I will have 113 kb at the end of the year and then game over, since I have around 200 kb of ram free for this task. Therefore I asked about calculators with this sort of "transparent" storage.
If I use an optimized format like strings, I may delay the problem but then it will happen eventually.
I guess I need to start to do the paging solution, to keep the data in ram under 30kb.

I also thought to just save the data on the pc every now and then and reset the counters on the 50g, but in theory I'd like to analyze the data on the 50g itself too, so while I backup it on the pc, I don't want to move it from the calculator.

Another thing I discovered is that the backup on the SD card, in form of HPDIR, is not easy to read on the pc. So I need to convert all the full backups of the directory (one for every day, so I have 250 of them) in string format to be able to read them easily on the pc.

the data is like the following (yes somewhere I stored integers instead of reals, I was in the wrong mode). I'll convert them eventually

(code makes the panel too long on the horizontal axis :/ )
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{ 0. 0. 0. 0. 2. 2. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 4. 4. 1. 2. 2. 2. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 4. 2. 4. 4. 2. 0. 4. 4. 4. 4. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 3. 4. 4. 0. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 4. 2. 2. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 2. 3. 1. 2. 1. 4. 3. 2. 2. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 2. 4. 2. 2. 0. 2. 0. 3. 2. 4. 3. 0. 2. 3. 3. 2. 3. 4. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 0. 3. 3. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 3. 2. 3. 1. 3. 3. 0. 0. 0. 3. 3. 0. 0. 0. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 3. 2. 3. 2. 3. 2. 3. 3. 2. 3. 4. 3. 3. 4. 2. 2. 3. 2. 1. 2. 2. 3. 2. 4. 3. 2. 2. 2. 3. 4. 2. 1. 2. 1. 2. 0. 0. 1. 2. 3. 1. 2. 3. 2. 2. 3. 1. 2. 0. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 3. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. }
{ 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 4. 3. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 4. 3. 3. 0. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 4. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 4. 3. 3. 4. 2. 2. 2. 4. 2. 3. 4. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 4. 2. 2. 4. 4. 2. 2. 3. 2. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 2. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 2. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 3. 2. 3. 2. 4. 4. 3. 2. 2. 0. 2. 1. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 3. 4. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 4. 3. 3. 2. 3. 2. 2. 3. 2. 1. 2. 0. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. }
{ 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 2. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 2. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 4. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 2. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 4. 2. 4. 2. 3. 2. 2. 3. 4. 3. 4. 3. 2. 2. 4. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 3. 4. 2. 4. 3. 4. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 0. 0. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 2. 0. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 0. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. }
{ 4. 2. 2. 4. 2. 2. 3. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 4. 2. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 4. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 2. 1. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 2. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 0. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 1. 4. 4. 4. 3. 1. 1. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 0. 4. 4. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 1. 4. 4. 1. 1. 1. 4. 4. 4. 1. 1. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 1. 1. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 3. 3. 4. }
{ 2. 3. 3. 3. 4. 3. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 3. 2. 1. 3. 4. 2. 1. 2. 2. 1. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 2. 4. 3. 4. 4. 2. 2. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 1. 2. 2. 2. 2. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 0. 0. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 2. 3. 3. 2. 1. 1. 1. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 1. 1. 3. 2. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 2. 2. 3. }
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{ 60. 180. 180. 30. 240. 120. 150. 90. 0. 60. 90. 240. 360. 420. 420. 420. 90. 120. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 180. 420. 420. 480. 420. 420. 420. 180. 180. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 240. 0. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 240. 240. 420. 240. 360. 240. 360. 360. 420. 360. 420. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 420. 360. 480. 420. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 360. 360. 420. 360. 420. 420. 420. 360. 420. 420. 420. 420. 360. 420. 360. 240. 420. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 240. 420. 360. 420. 420. 420. 240. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 270. 360. 420. 420. 420. 360. 360. 480. 420. 360. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 270. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 360. 360. 390. 420. 390. 390. 390. 0. 0. 360. 360. 360. 360. 420. 390. 270. 390. 360. 360. 360. 360. 360. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 480. 390. 420. 480. 480. 480. 360. 420. 420. 420. 360. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 420. 480. 420. 420. 480. 480. 480. 420. 480. 360. 360. 360. 450. 420. 420. 420. 480. 420. 540. 480. 420. 480. 420. 450. 480. 480. 480. 420. 390. 480. 390. 510. 480. 510. 420. 480. 420. 480. 420. 540. 540. 480. 480. 510. 420. 420. 420. 420. 390. 450. 450. 450. 510. 420. 420. 450. }

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
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 Messages In This Thread Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - pier4r - 02-18-2018, 03:00 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - mfleming - 02-18-2018, 04:12 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - DavidM - 02-18-2018, 07:32 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - pier4r - 02-18-2018, 08:40 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - Claudio L. - 02-23-2018, 10:09 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - Garth Wilson - 02-19-2018, 03:31 AM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - pier4r - 02-24-2018 11:15 AM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - DavidM - 02-24-2018, 07:50 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - Garth Wilson - 02-24-2018, 08:21 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - Claudio L. - 02-24-2018, 09:04 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - Carsen - 02-24-2018, 03:54 PM RE: Calculators that allow direct operations on data stored on persistent storage? - DavidM - 03-01-2018, 06:15 PM

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