HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
03-25-2017, 09:11 PM
Post: #1
 Adalin Junior Member Posts: 17 Joined: Dec 2015
HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
Hello

for some time I have randomly collected various old HPIB equipment that was thrown out in various locations that I would like to connect to my HP71b.

I do have a HP-IL/HP-IB interface 82169A connected to my HP71b

But I cant seem to get it to work

I have a Thinkjet 2225A HPIB printer and a HP9122S HPIB disk drive

I never worked with HPIB so I am not familiar with how it works, I do know that I need to set the address jumpers on the back and I set "1" on both units, I only connect one at the time to the 82169A for the moment.

I have tried to read both the HPIL manual and the 82169A manual but I cant understand how to interface them with each other.

If I do

RESTORE IO
it passes so communication with 82169A is good

but If I do

PRINTER IS :PRINTER
I get:

But as I understand it this command is for the HPIL printer and not the HPIB

I think I need to initialize the printer in some way so that the 82169A knows what address the printer is on but I cant seem to find how to

the same with the HP9122S no luck at all

I might be missing some information how to do this, I have tried to read all manuals I could find about the subject but as I said, I have never worked with HPIB or HPIL

It would be nice to be able to save data from my HP71b on a diskette and to be able to print stuff and perhaps connect it to my oscilloscope and multimeter and various instruments.

I do actually have two HP71b with HPIL interfaces, is it possible to transfer data between these units with the HPIL interface?

10C,11C,12C,15C,16C,21,25,25C,34C,35,45,41CV,41CX,71B,97,32S,35S,42S
03-25-2017, 09:56 PM
Post: #2
 Sylvain Cote Senior Member Posts: 1,274 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
Hello,

Assuming you only have the HP-82169A on the HP-IL loop
and the HP-2225A on the HP-IB interface.

HP-82169A dip switch setting should be (from left to right) "0 0 0 0 0 1"
Leftmost digit: 0 = Translator / 1 = Mailbox -> here 0
Next 5 digits: address (0..31) -> here 00001 = 1

HP-2225A -> Dip switch 0..7 should be (from left to right) "1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0"
Pos 0 : SRQ Enable -> 1 = ON
Pos 1 : Listen Always -> 0 = OFF
Pos 2..7 : address (0..31) -> here 00010 = 2

Power up everything, on the HP-71B
RESET HPIL (optional)
RESTORE IO
PRINTER IS :2
At that point the printer should be ready, use PRINT or PLIST to test it.

Sylvain
03-26-2017, 12:40 AM
Post: #3
 Adalin Junior Member Posts: 17 Joined: Dec 2015
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
Yes it works!

PRINT works now, but Im missing a few lines in the text, a check and cleaning of the printer head shows some corrosion unfortunately.
Well I might repair it if I get the time, or I can try to get some pens for my HP7470A.

I still need to get my HP9122S to work

MASSMEM IS :2 does not work, neither does INITIALIZE DISK:MASSMEM

10C,11C,12C,15C,16C,21,25,25C,34C,35,45,41CV,41CX,71B,97,32S,35S,42S
03-26-2017, 01:06 AM
Post: #4
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,036 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
(03-26-2017 12:40 AM)Adalin Wrote:  I still need to get my HP9122S to work

MASSMEM IS :2 does not work, neither does INITIALIZE DISK:MASSMEM

The 9122S drive uses the SS/80 command protocol, which is not supported by the '71 HP-IL, and likely no other HP-IL controllers, including the HP-110 and HP-110+, which use the Amigo (and Filbert) protocols. The 9121 drive uses Amigo, so it's possible that could work if you have one.

--Bob Prosperi
03-26-2017, 01:16 AM
Post: #5
 Sylvain Cote Senior Member Posts: 1,274 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
(03-26-2017 12:40 AM)Adalin Wrote:  Well I might repair it if I get the time, or I can try to get some pens for my HP7470A.
I can confirm that the HP-7470A HP-IB version also work.
Be aware that the plotter only understand HP-GL commands and that you will need to write BASIC programs in order to use it with the HP-71B.

(03-26-2017 12:40 AM)Adalin Wrote:  I still need to get my HP9122S to work
MASSMEM IS :2 does not work, neither does INITIALIZE DISK:MASSMEM
The HP-41/71/75 only support Filbert protocol.
The HP-9122S only support SS/80 protocol.
The HP-9114A/B support both SS/80 and Filbert protocols.

Subset/80 (SS/80) Protocol Document

Sylvain
03-26-2017, 02:08 AM
Post: #6
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,036 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
(03-26-2017 01:16 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  The HP-9114A/B support both SS/80 and Filbert protocols.

9114 Supports SS/80? Are you sure? I thought it only supported Filbert and Amigo. Where did you find docs that SS/80 is supported?

--Bob Prosperi
03-26-2017, 03:21 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2017 03:27 AM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #7
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,747 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
(03-26-2017 01:06 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(03-26-2017 12:40 AM)Adalin Wrote:  I still need to get my HP9122S to work

MASSMEM IS :2 does not work, neither does INITIALIZE DISK:MASSMEM

The 9122S drive uses the SS/80 command protocol, which is not supported by the '71 HP-IL, and likely no other HP-IL controllers, including the HP-110 and HP-110+, which use the Amigo (and Filbert) protocols. The 9121 drive uses Amigo, so it's possible that could work if you have one.
From the 9114A CE Handbook:
The HP 9114A Drive supports both the SUBSET/80 and the FILBERT
command set. FILBERT is the command set used by the 82161A
Cassette Tape Drive.

The 110, 110+, and 9114 all support SS/80.
https://groups.io/g/hpseries80/wiki/HP-8...ory-layout
Code:
Controller                         Amigo      Filbert    SS/80, CS/80 ------------------------------------------------------------------- HP 110, 110+                       -          Filbert    SS/80 HP 110, 110+, AMIGO.SYS            Amigo      Filbert    SS/80 HP-41, HP-IL module                -          Filbert    - HP-71B, HP-IL module               -          Filbert    - HP-75C/D                           -          Filbert    - Series-80, HP-IB I/F, MS-ROM       Amigo      -          - Series-80, HP-IB I/F, MS+EMS-ROM   Amigo      -          SS/80  Series-80, HP-IL I/F               -          -          -  HP Integral PC, HP-IB I/F          -          -          SS/80                                 Peripheral                         Amigo      Filbert    SS/80, CS/80 ------------------------------------------------------------------- 9114A/B                            -          Filbert    SS/80 82161A Cassette Drive              -          Filbert    - most HP-IB Drives (e.g. 9133D)     -          -          SS/80 some HP-IB Drives (e.g. 9133XV)    Amigo      -          - ILPer/pyILPER Emulators            -          Filbert    -
03-26-2017, 09:00 AM
Post: #8
 J-F Garnier Senior Member Posts: 391 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
(03-26-2017 02:08 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(03-26-2017 01:16 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  The HP-9114A/B support both SS/80 and Filbert protocols.
9114 Supports SS/80? Are you sure? I thought it only supported Filbert and Amigo. Where did you find docs that SS/80 is supported?

You can look at this document: mass storage for the HP Portable.
Amigo is supported too by manually adding the right device in CONFIG.SYS.

J-F
03-26-2017, 03:39 PM
Post: #9
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,036 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
Wow, refuted in stereo!

(03-26-2017 03:21 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  The 110, 110+, and 9114 all support SS/80.

(03-26-2017 09:00 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  You can look at this document: mass storage for the HP Portable.
Amigo is supported too by manually adding the right device in CONFIG.SYS.

So, while 9114 and 110/110+ do apparently support SS/80 (SS stands for Sub Set, meaning not the full CS/80 protocol; SS was used on low-end HP drives), I don't think this changes the core answer that a 9122 cannot be accessed from a '71 via HP-IL/HP-IB adapter, at least out of the box.

Should have stuck with the answer and not generalized...

Note however that it appears SS/80 can be emulated using low-level HP-IL commands as I have an HP-75 program listing "CS80 driver for HP-75 <=>HP-IB<=>HP9121 drives" which almost surely has a typo since the 9121 drives use Amigo. Most likely the drive model listed should be 9122.

--Bob Prosperi
03-26-2017, 04:00 PM
Post: #10
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,747 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
Due to the different protocols, not all controllers can connect to all devices. For example, the Series 80 needs a Mass Storage ROM to access Amigo drives and the Extended Mass Storage ROM to access SS/80 drives and even with the HP-IL module, the Series 80 can't access a 9114. The 71 and 9121 are one of those combinations that weren't intended to work together.

You can run the built-in diagnostics if you want to test the drive.
03-26-2017, 05:19 PM
Post: #11
 Adalin Junior Member Posts: 17 Joined: Dec 2015
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
aw damn, well I guess I can use it for saving data from something sometime in the future..

Now to the last subject, Is it possible to communicate HP71b - HP71b with HPIL?

Can I use one device as the display from the other unit?
Or can I transfer data from one unit to the other one?

10C,11C,12C,15C,16C,21,25,25C,34C,35,45,41CV,41CX,71B,97,32S,35S,42S
03-26-2017, 07:00 PM
Post: #12
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,036 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
(03-26-2017 05:19 PM)Adalin Wrote:  Now to the last subject, Is it possible to communicate HP71b - HP71b with HPIL?

Yes, it's described in the HP-IL Adapter manual; I captured that in this program, long ago:

10 ! PROG TO TAKE A FILE FROM ANOTHER HP-71
20 ! ROBERT PROSPERI 5 MAY 1984
30 ON ERROR GOTO 140
40 INPUT "Source file name? ";S$50 INPUT "Target file name? ",S$;D$55 IF D$="" THEN D$=S$
60 CONTROL ON
70 REMOTE :HP71
80 OUTPUT :HP71 ;"CONTROL OFF"
90 OUTPUT :HP71 ;"COPY "&S$&" TO :LOOP" 100 COPY :HP71 TO D$
110 LOCAL
120 DISP "File transferred successfully!"
130 STOP
140 E=ERRN @ E$=ERRM$ @ L=ERRL
150 DISP "Error ";E;" occurred at line ";L
160 DISP E\$
170 STOP
180 END

The program is run on '71 A, used to 'take' a file from '71 B.

Steps:

0. Connect machines via HP-IL (other devices can be on the loop)
1. Turn on B
2. Turn on A
3. On B, do RESTORE IO
4. On A, do RESTORE IO
5. On A, RUN FILECOPY
7. Enjoy

The error handler originally did more, but I removed most of it when it was simplified; now it looks a bit silly, but it works.

The source file can be reasonably complex (FILE1, FILE2:PORT(3), FILE4:MAIN, etc.) but it's possible you could ask for something that chokes it...

--Bob Prosperi
03-29-2017, 06:23 PM
Post: #13
 Adalin Junior Member Posts: 17 Joined: Dec 2015
RE: HP71b HPIL/HPIB devices
Hello

sorry for late answer I have been away on work related travels

But the program works perfectly!

10C,11C,12C,15C,16C,21,25,25C,34C,35,45,41CV,41CX,71B,97,32S,35S,42S
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