(08-26-2021 06:28 PM)Neve Wrote:  There he specifies some needed hardware to have, like ERAMCO MLDL, PROTOCODER II, EPROM BOX, etc…
Are these things even still available today? Do I really need them, or are there any more modern ways to save M CODE programs and transfer them to the calculator?

(08-26-2021 07:12 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  These were hardware that implemented 10 bit words either in RAM (MLDL & RAM boxes) and/or in EPROM (MLDL & EPROM boxes).
Today, you can use the 41CL, DM-41X or NoV-64d as MLDL.
For the 41CL, you just need to initialize a 41CL internal RAM page with 0x00 and then map that page to the 41 memory space (page 6 to 15).
Then with the ROM of your choice, fill up that RAM page with nut instructions.
Sylvain

(08-26-2021 07:12 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Edit 1:
Ángel has created an Excel page with special macros to generate his modules.
I had started to do the same but I have never completed mine.
There are several PC nut assembler available that can generate 4K MCODE modules.
Once you have a 4K module, you just need to transfer it to the target (41CL, DM-41X, Clonix-D, NoV-64d, etc) in the device RAM or Flash.

(08-26-2021 07:12 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Edit 2:
Look at my HPCC 2020 presentation on Diego's modules, it should gives you some answers to your questions.

(08-26-2021 08:47 PM)Neve Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 07:12 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  For the 41CL, you just need to initialize a 41CL internal RAM page with 0x00 and then map that page to the 41 memory space (page 6 to 15).

Thanks, I’ll have to look into that…

(08-26-2021 08:47 PM)Neve Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 07:12 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  There are several PC nut assembler available that can generate 4K MCODE modules.

Names of those PC nut assemblers? Where can I find these?

• SDS II, by Hewlett-Packard, runs on MS-DOS
• SDK41, by Warren Furlow, runs on MS-DOS
• asmnut, by Christophe Gottheimer, run Linux & Win32+Cygwin
• NutStudio, by Håkan Thörngren, run on Linux & macOS
• ... you can probably find more if you search the Internet
  

(08-26-2021 08:47 PM)Neve Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 07:12 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Look at my HPCC 2020 presentation on Diego's modules, it should gives you some answers to your questions.

Watching it now. It’ll probably raise even more questions!

(08-28-2021 03:34 AM)derekamos Wrote:  Hi Neve,
None of the 'ways' to create mcode are very easy compared to just programming RPN in the HP41. You had best read about & learn the approaches & choose the one that appeals most to you. If you have done assembly code programming before in other environments, then you at least know how to use a text editor for code input, then compile it into runtime code. Those methods in the 41 environment mean using a method like the SDK, or its latest new addition 'NutStudio'.
Personally I always found having to input the syntax to write code & then compile, a pain & waste of time - so I use DavidASM rom, which auto inputs directly, not even having to type in the text codes.
But other ways also exist like the MLDL assembler hardware route, which has a number of ROMs available for use in inputting code to a 4k RAM, before compiling it to a ROM for use.
The HEPAX rom includes a complete system for assembly/disassembly of mcode, and could be used in an MLDL environment, or using a desktop with an HP41 emulators RAM block.
Desktop emulators that allow RAM pages to be loaded are also a favourite of mine for their ease of use, They make the MLDL concept a bit out of date, & if you look at all the later ideas that came along after the 1980's, they virtually all use a desktop for their input/compile methods.
I hope this helps your choice of which way to go? DA.

(08-28-2021 09:17 PM)mfleming Wrote:  I've used NutStudio to build ROMs with mixed user rpl and assembly. Highly recommended. Hepax is very handy for creating a quick ROM with your own user programs. With the 41cl you can have multiple Hepax ROMs in cl RAM that can be plugged in as needed. In my opinion, Hepax is best for casual on-calculator development and NutStudio for more complex ROMs, particularly bank switched ones. On Windows you'll need the MS Linux support extension.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-15125-post-132732.html

(08-29-2021 01:28 AM)derekamos Wrote:  Hi again Neve,
The previous thread directs to NutStudio, you can see just what users say about using it there.
For other plugin roms like Assembler 3, Assembler 4, DavidASM etc you will need to go to 'That Other Site'/TOS, it has an extensive library of old & new HP41 roms. You will probably need to join & sign-in to do downloads.
DA.

(08-29-2021 02:04 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(08-29-2021 01:28 AM)derekamos Wrote:  Hi again Neve,
The previous thread directs to NutStudio, you can see just what users say about using it there.
For other plugin roms like Assembler 3, Assembler 4, DavidASM etc you will need to go to 'That Other Site'/TOS, it has an extensive library of old & new HP41 roms. You will probably need to join & sign-in to do downloads.
DA.

TOS = ho41.org (replace "o" with "p", which can't be listed here, due to some ancient and uninteresting history)

(08-29-2021 11:25 AM)MeindertKuipers Wrote:  Learning HP41 MCODE is an exiting process, and I had loads of fun (and a bit of frustration) learning and implemention back in the good old days, using DAVID assembler and a real MLDL (which I still have but do not use anymore). I remember a friend reading HEX codes while I typed these in an EPROM programmer, and having to do this a few times because of typing errors (including the wait to erase the EPROM).

Today I would start with the V41 emulator and HEPAX to make the first steps in learning how to program mcode. HEPAX offers great documentation and tools, while V41 offers tracing through your code, so there is less need to recover from lockups when you make a mistake.

(08-29-2021 01:28 AM)derekamos Wrote:  Hi again Neve,
The previous thread directs to NutStudio, you can see just what users say about using it there.
For other plugin roms like Assembler 3, Assembler 4, DavidASM etc you will need to go to 'That Other Site'/TOS, it has an extensive library of old & new HP41 roms. You will probably need to join & sign-in to do downloads.
DA.

(08-29-2021 02:32 PM)Neve Wrote:  The more I read, the more I realize how much I still have to read and learn. The more questions I have….

(08-28-2021 09:39 PM)Neve Wrote:  

(08-28-2021 09:17 PM)mfleming Wrote:  I've used NutStudio to build ROMs with mixed user rpl and assembly. Highly recommended. Hepax is very handy for creating a quick ROM with your own user programs. With the 41cl you can have multiple Hepax ROMs in cl RAM that can be plugged in as needed. In my opinion, Hepax is best for casual on-calculator development and NutStudio for more complex ROMs, particularly bank switched ones. On Windows you'll need the MS Linux support extension.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-15125-post-132732.html

Great! Thanks!
I’ve been looking for it unsuccessfully.
I’m on a MacOS BTW.

(08-29-2021 08:40 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(08-29-2021 02:32 PM)Neve Wrote:  The more I read, the more I realize how much I still have to read and learn. The more questions I have….

For the HP-41, this is the beginning of wisdom.

It's a crucial concept to grasp, to assess the magnitude of the learning curve. Very few ever master it all, (certainly not including me) but those that have are likely hanging out here, so you're in the right place.

But it's a fun journey, welcome!