Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
09-20-2017, 10:42 AM
Post: #1
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
I believe this is the main forum on the web for the prime, and this is an absolutely essential resource, and is very helpful. I've found everyone here so helpful that this is a great resource.
However, what is also needed is a central site where people can post helpful articles, tutorials, short programs/utilities (not apps...there is already a place for those). E.g. People can post how they are using their calculators to do research, short articles on how to create menus or forms, short articles on some of the undocumented commands (there are a couple buried in the cas), maybe an example on how to create a slider in your app, etc, etc...
I realize there are articles like these scattered all over the web. It would be nice if there was a single centralized location (like this forum) where everyone could go. It would also help reduce duplicate questions that come up again and again.
Info like these links could also be placed there (this kind of stuff is scattered all over the web):
http://holyjoe.org/hp/PrimeVars.htm
http://www.hp-prime.de/files/composite_f...ages_m.pdf
https://en.hpprime.club/articles/
...or for those we could just have a description line and a link to the site.
This forum isn't really the place for this. I have a bunch of links in my bookmarks to posts in this forum that do have technical info not available elsewhere....this "tutorial" place would be the better place for these.

HP did have their own "online magazine" called Solve I think, but it's discontinued and we couldn't just add articles.

....just thinking aloud :-)

Thanks for listening.
-Donald
09-20-2017, 10:54 AM
Post: #2
 AlexFekken Member Posts: 151 Joined: May 2016
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
09-20-2017, 12:47 PM (This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 01:06 PM by Thomas_Sch.)
Post: #3
 Thomas_Sch Senior Member Posts: 305 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
(09-20-2017 10:42 AM)webmasterpdx Wrote:  .. However, what is also needed is a central site where people can post helpful articles, tutorials, short programs/utilities (not apps...there is already a place for those). ...
09-20-2017, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 03:25 PM by webmasterpdx.)
Post: #4
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
Is that page updated? Is there a search engine directed to just those links (something that could be done and would be far more useful than a WAN search using google).
Also, all those are threads within this forum. These should be converted into articles or tutorials....ideally.

Here is the sort of thing I'm thinking of. It would be the main resource page for the Prime.

First, it would have a link to this forum.

Next, it would have a link to a list of links. Here people could add new links as they are created/discovered. We could have a search feature that only searches these links. This would be far more useful than a WAN search using google. e.g. You could enter "integration by parts" and you'd only get HP Prime relevant material. There would be a single line describing each link (shorter than a tweet). The page could run a script when submitting new links to check for duplicates, and if a duplicate, the new description line could be added. Then, maybe once in a while the maintainer of the site could combine these descriptions into one line.

Next, it would have a link to articles, where people can add small useful utilities they might add or a tutorial on a subject. e.g. take this forum link http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-445...hlight=fft
It is a discussion on spectrum analysis using the prime with a useful example. This could be converted into a very useful article. Initially, someone could just grab the discussion and put it all together into a single post, and then later, that person could tidy it up a bit....so it would evolve. HP themselves could add useful extensions and errata to the help materials. I see lots of uses for this kind of a page.

Finally, I was thinking a link to a page where we could add articles that might be a bit longer about how the calculator is used in specific problem solving. e.g. I had a project I was working on where I needed to come up with a very fast and small (had to fit on a pic microcontroller with only 64 bytes of RAM) to filter sampled audio into 3 frequency bands (low, mid and high pass). I invented a new variation on a state variable filter based on a FIR filter. At the time I did this all using a TI86 calculator. (Note that the HP prime is so much better for algorithm emulation as we can specify that variables are 8-bit integers for example, whereas the TI86 assumed everything was a real number, and you can get slightly different results when doing that, so writing an algorithm that will run the same on the actual microcontroller is possible using the prime). To test my algorithm I created 3 sine waves each in the middle of the 3 frequency bands. I added these functions together and turned it into a sample array to use my algorithm on. I then took the output and could plot it for the different filter outputs (so the input would look like a noisy signal when plotted in the time domain, and the output should ideally be 3 sine waves). The prime is far more powerful so I could do an FFT and look at the frequency domain to see the output or even using CAS to get the outputs in terms of trig functions (fourier series). All this would include useful functions to turn the test functions into data streams, plotting outputs in both time domain and frequency domain, etc, etc...lots of useful utilities. More importantly, the result could be a useful and interesting article with real world examples of how to use the calculator that could help others in their work and perhaps inspire others to use the prime more than falling back on apps like matlab or octave, etc, etc..

This final part would also provide HP with better feedback for how professionals want to use the calculator. I also think that a lot of people do not realize how nice it is to do this kind of research and development using a calculator rather than some high priced, hugely complicated math applications, where you need a full PC to use it rather than being able to just lay back on your couch with just the calculator and a pen and paper. Makes this kind of work much more enjoyable and is much more efficient IMO. e.g. If I'm working on such a problem, and I think of a variation to try out, if using Octave, I have to turn on my laptop, boot it up, start the package, etc, etc...alternatively, I can just reach for my calculator and after pressing a few keys, I'm in business without ever getting up from my couch! This also isn't just for professionals, excluding students, as they could add how they are able to accomplish their assignments faster and easier using the prime, the idea being that people in similar fields and with similar problems can get ideas and solutions to their needs.

I know this would require a little bit of work by HP to set this up, but once set up, it would be mostly maintained and contributed to by the users.

So, for HP, I see that while they would have to invest a little to set this up, they would get the following in return.
1. There isn't currently any centralized way for people to share anything on the prime other than this forum. This would provide this.
2. This would create a far more cooperative user base, with greater user participation (currently there is nothing to participate in).
3. It would create a much better source of resources, and I believe it could grow with user participation, into a great source of utilities, tutorials, etc., to bring people up to speed with the calculator's more advanced functionality, which is what you really want to do to make the prime stand out against it's competitors.
4. With the 3rd link I mentioned (with the professional examples), it could serve as a vehicle to draw people back to using calculators again. Many people have left calculators behind to use the high end math packages, not realizing the actual advantages that the calculator can provide, mainly, both the comfort/convenience of use, plus when used this way, people become very familiar with the advanced features of the calculator....much more so than they would with all the features of a package like matlab. Also, many researchers don't realize how easy it is to whip out quick programs to test their algorithms this way.
5. New uses for calculators will be discovered this way. e.g. Just reading this, some people will realize that you can test algorithms that might be targeted for embedded microcontrollers, and this might not have occurred to them before. This site would both encourage and help people expand these uses.
6. This could help the prime become a hobby for many people. e.g. the way the raspberry pi or arduino have become huge hobby based items for the nerdier amongst us, I can see this happening for solving math problems or developing new algorithms, programming games, etc, etc... (Imagine one of the larger articles discussing game techniques, like using sprites for animation etc, etc.. could be a huge boost to people who like programming games for fun).
7. It would provide an invaluable source of feedback for future HP product production. Not just calculators, but possibly software and other products.
8. With a central source for information, I could see this helping the hacking community. I don't mean people trying to break the calculator, but possibly someone could come out with a USB stick with a piezo speaker and possibly the ability to connect via wifi to other i/o sensors (like HP's streaming product, but that is so closed, that I'm betting they don't sell too many of those). I'm thinking more the arduino type sensors like here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Geekcreit-37-In-...SwIZBZvOql
Applying advanced math to various sensor data can be very useful. e.g. One project I worked with in the past involved getting real data from roller blades. I was coming up with a way to determine velocity of roller blades (was a real request for proposal for a product). One idea I was exploring was to record vibration using a piezo sensor. The idea was that a rear wheel will go over the same bumps as a front wheel (to some degree), so by recording this data and doing an auto-correlation, if I know the distance between the wheels I can figure out the velocity. So this is algorithm research, but I needed real data. I recorded the audio from a real roller blade boot using a tiny tape recorder. Then I played the tape into the mic on my pc, and extracted a sample stream. This would have been much easier if I could have grabbed it from a real sensor. This was another algorithm I researched using a TI86.

The bottom line here is that if such a site appeared, once people warmed up to it and became aware of it's existence, it could become one of the better support pages for any calculator to date. In addition it could promote a renaissance of people going back to using calculators for research instead of the big PC packages. Ultimately, it could help the Prime beat it's competitors in public opinion, and basically, sell more calculators for HP.
That's the advantage for HP, but for us, the users, it's a great support vehicle.

The basis for this is to get the thing in place and it should be mostly self running from that point on....

I know, it's unlikely to happen, but I figure while throwing around ideas, why not dream well :-)

OK I'll get off my soapbox now LOL :-)
-Donald
09-20-2017, 03:13 PM
Post: #5
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,016 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
I did not read all but I share your idea in the first post. I normally think wikis are the best (see my singnature)

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
09-20-2017, 03:40 PM
Post: #6
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
That's a new one for my bookmarks. I didn't know of your wiki. Cool one :-)
...but that's kind of making my point for me. It's yet another good site that nobody knows about... I think we could start with links and maybe we could get it to gradually evolve into "the ultimate"... :-)
09-20-2017, 07:34 PM (This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 07:36 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #7
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,016 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
(09-20-2017 03:40 PM)webmasterpdx Wrote:  That's a new one for my bookmarks. I didn't know of your wiki. Cool one :-)
...but that's kind of making my point for me. It's yet another good site that nobody knows about... I think we could start with links and maybe we could get it to gradually evolve into "the ultimate"... :-)

Is not mine, it is from Bruce Bergman.

And yes it is "another site". The point is that many sites can be edited by few, the wiki is open to many more so if there is the will, it can quickly be a central source, at least of links (that are already a good step).

Jebem is doing a great work with his sticky post, but what happens when he has some other project to do and the topic is not updated anymore? The wiki is - for me - the best answer. Everyone can fix it.

One point. A wiki does not get "ultimate" in one day. It is a constant work. One fix after another and after a while it gets attractive.

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
09-21-2017, 03:46 AM
Post: #8
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
Good point about the Wiki. I forgot there is a mechanism already for editing the pages. That would work just fine. Also, I didn't think it would happen overnight. I'd expect it to evolve. It's a good start though.
10-04-2017, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 09:06 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #9
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,016 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
I saw your changes on http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=prime:start

what a work! Very dedicated! I am happy that slowly the wiki gets some information.

Tip: Try to take it slowly. Even if you add one resource per day/week, after a while it gets very useful while you keep being motivated, otherwise you burn your willpower quickly.

Nice work nevertheless.

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
10-05-2017, 06:13 AM
Post: #10
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
Thanks. I just took all my Prime related bookmarks from my web browser and put them into relevant groups. I also put a new thread here (just to inform people that the wiki is "up" and to contribute).
If we can get everyone to use this wiki, it'd be the best way to manage resources.
-Donald
10-05-2017, 06:17 AM
Post: #11
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,016 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
(10-05-2017 06:13 AM)webmasterpdx Wrote:  If we can get everyone to use this wiki, it'd be the best way to manage resources.
-Donald

Yes but remember the 90-9-1 rule and the fact that thinks get used when they get more and more quality. So eventually it will happen. Keep it up because what you did is very nice. I will try to use it as well as I still have to learn a lot on the prime.

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
10-05-2017, 10:03 AM
Post: #12
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
Me too :-)
The way I'd like to see things evolve is this...
This would be the standard wiki: http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=prime:start
Small Programs and Utilities would go here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/forum-15.html
Sophisticated Programs and Apps go here: http://www.hpcalc.org/
10-06-2017, 06:18 PM
Post: #13
 Eric Rechlin Member Posts: 215 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
(10-05-2017 10:03 AM)webmasterpdx Wrote:  Me too :-)
The way I'd like to see things evolve is this...
This would be the standard wiki: http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=prime:start
Small Programs and Utilities would go here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/forum-15.html
Sophisticated Programs and Apps go here: http://www.hpcalc.org/

Actually all programs should go on hpcalc.org regardless of complexity (and also the forum, if the authors so desire).
10-06-2017, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-06-2017 10:15 PM by webmasterpdx.)
Post: #14
 webmasterpdx Senior Member Posts: 541 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: Is there a single website for tutorials, etc..
Well there are a lot of tiny little program snippets, like to get the battery level from the icon, I use the code below. It's too small to put as an app and wouldn't really fit in the hpcalc format. It needs to be in a different "utility and snippet" site, which is how I envision the software library at MOHPC being....

Code:
 EXPORT BATVAL() // Battery test BEGIN LOCAL x:=315,d:=#D6DEDEh; CASE IF GETPIX_P(x,14)==d THEN RETURN 0; END; IF GETPIX_P(x,11)==d THEN RETURN 25; END; IF GETPIX_P(x,8)==d THEN RETURN 50; END; IF GETPIX_P(x,6)==d THEN RETURN 75; END; DEFAULT RETURN 100; END; // CASE... END; // BEGIN...BATVAL()
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