Most underrated programmables
01-29-2015, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 01-30-2015 04:15 AM by walter b.)
Post: #21
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-29-2015 03:14 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:
(01-29-2015 02:22 PM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  Main drawback is its battleship (Walter B) or perhaps aircraft carrier size, not pocketable. Very inconvenient for many venues.

I wonder if a 50g could be made as thin as the Prime now. Agreed that it would still be considered enormous in the other two dimensions, as compared to the 20b/30b/34S form factor.

I concur with Dwight, it's simply not pocketable.

d:-/

P.S.: Reducing thickness would kill the space for AAA batteries which I'd dislike.
01-30-2015, 02:20 PM
Post: #22
 Jake Schwartz Member Posts: 261 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-29-2015 06:11 PM)walter b Wrote:
(01-29-2015 03:14 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  I wonder if a 50g could be made as thin as the Prime now. Agreed that it would still be considered enormous in the other two dimensions, as compared to the 20b/30b/34S form factor.

I concur with Dwight, it's simply not pocketable.

d

P.S.: Reducing thickness would kill the space for AAA batteries which I'd dislike.

Yeah, well I was envisioning a project they ported the 50g to the thinner Prime hardware platform, with upgraded processor, memory, screen, etc., including flat rechargeable battery. If they miraculously saw value in such a project, it would be a nice step forward IMHO.

Jake
01-30-2015, 02:47 PM
Post: #23
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-30-2015 02:20 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  ... I was envisioning a project they ported the 50g to the thinner Prime hardware platform, with upgraded processor, memory, screen, etc., including flat rechargeable battery. If they miraculously saw value in such a project, it would be a nice step forward IMHO.

So instead of a huge 50g running from 4 AAA batteries you would have a (thin but nevertheless) huge 50g' running from a rechargeable battery. Is that progress? Why?

d:-I

CETERVM CENSEO: Priority one is getting 43S prototypes for firmware development.
01-30-2015, 07:32 PM
Post: #24
 Jake Schwartz Member Posts: 261 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-30-2015 02:47 PM)walter b Wrote:
(01-30-2015 02:20 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  ... I was envisioning a project they ported the 50g to the thinner Prime hardware platform, with upgraded processor, memory, screen, etc., including flat rechargeable battery. If they miraculously saw value in such a project, it would be a nice step forward IMHO.

So instead of a huge 50g running from 4 AAA batteries you would have a (thin but nevertheless) huge 50g' running from a rechargeable battery. Is that progress? Why?

d:-I

Well, for one, it eliminates a decade-old hardware platform for HP, like they have done other times with other models (like the 12C). In addition, a thinner 50g with color LCD, touchscreen, more memory, etc. would represent progress to me.
01-30-2015, 09:11 PM
Post: #25
 anetzer Member Posts: 158 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-30-2015 07:32 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  would represent progress to me.

Are you earnestly trying to lure Walter out of one of his favourite pièces de résistance?

Some people have their calculators on desks or in attaché cases. Others need them to fit in shirt pockets.

I will not be unhappy if the WP 43S comes out in the size of a smartphone, but I can see the sturdy, well even "tractorial" haptic grace of an HP-97, even more so after all the years that have passed: Those keys...

,-)

a.n.
01-31-2015, 01:56 AM
Post: #26
 Bit Member Posts: 265 Joined: Jan 2014
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-30-2015 07:32 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  Well, for one, it eliminates a decade-old hardware platform for HP, like they have done other times with other models (like the 12C). In addition, a thinner 50g with color LCD, touchscreen, more memory, etc. would represent progress to me.

I wouldn't call color LCD 'progress'. It's a step sideways, not forward: In some respects it's better, it's able to display more information, and it can convey certain kinds of information better. But in other respects it's worse, for example, it's much less readable in bright light.
Post: #27
 BarryMead Senior Member Posts: 416 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-31-2015 01:56 AM)Bit Wrote:  I wouldn't call color LCD 'progress'. It's a step sideways, not forward: In some respects it's better, it's able to display more information, and it can convey certain kinds of information better. But in other respects it's worse, for example, it's much less readable in bright light.
And color LCD displays typically draw considerably more current lowering batter life. I admit that battery life is always an issue with large graphics displays anyway, but color seems to compound the problem. As a case in point compare the battery
life of the Kindle (Months of reading time - monochrome) with the Kindle Fire (6-8 hours max reading time - color).
01-31-2015, 08:55 PM
Post: #28
 Claudio L. Senior Member Posts: 1,696 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(01-29-2015 03:14 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:
(01-29-2015 02:22 PM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  Main drawback is its battleship (Walter B) or perhaps aircraft carrier size, not pocketable. Very inconvenient for many venues.

I wonder if a 50g could be made as thin as the Prime now. Agreed that it would still be considered enormous in the other two dimensions, as compared to the 20b/30b/34S form factor.

Jake

Here's an idea to do the opposite:
Odroid-C1 w/3.2" color touchscreen (US $64, similar to a Raspberry Pi but faster) + an HP 50g w/special firmware that all it does is read the keyboard and send keystrokes via serial port to the Odroid-C1. (alternatively, just tear the 50g apart and connect the keyboard matrix to GPIO on the main board). Or if you like any other keyboard, simply choose your favorite HP and hook up the key matrix. The width is about the same as the 50g, thickness is a lot more. It will be bigger, thicker, heavier, will require external power or a huge battery, but it can be an excellent boat-size calculator with great connectivity (even Ethernet) and an HP-original keyboard. Still, it will be only slightly more expensive than a Prime but much more powerful (assuming a new 50g is used for keyboard, could be cheaper with other keyboards). Smaller calcs would compete with the WP34S, so it has to be big and bulky to have its own market, more or less like this device... (this article will bring memories to some people in this forum...) 02-02-2015, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 04:20 AM by Joseph_21sv.) Post: #29  Joseph_21sv Member Posts: 89 Joined: Aug 2014 RE: Most underrated programmables (01-28-2015 06:13 PM)Hlib Wrote: I am sure that the price shan't be the main factor upon purchase of the calculator. For HP-39gii I paid$150, but without regret threw out it in garbage, because it is difficult to call it the CALCULATOR. The HP-48gii like ugly duckling from Anderson's fairy tale appeared in my hands as precious treasure in 2013. He is alive still! In 2000 I bought 2 CASIO FX-2.0 at the price $170 for one device, and they are still absolutely operational. In 15 years there was no one failure in functioning with FX-2.0. SRP-325G (HP-9G) which I bought for$60, works smoothly 9 years already. We don't need "calculators for beggars". I prefer to work at the android with MATHSTUDIO, instead of purchasing new toys from HP. BTW, at this forum nobody recalls about inexpensive qualitative HP-9G. HP is a religion nowadays. IMO, CASIO (TI, HP) nothing of the best didn't make anything since AFX-2.0 plus (TI-92plus, HP-50G).

Funny you should mention two calculators which are veiled clones of the Casio fx-6300G, which is mysteriously overrated given the programmable calculator that it actually is—the lowest of the low end of Casio’s graphing calculators (whether it is even a “real” graphing calculator is debatable as its functions are so poorly integrated and graphing appears as an almost self-evident afterthought—the entire graphing display is off to the left side of the liquid crystal and it is very low resolution). In fact, none of the first-generation Casio machines count (IMHO) as “real” graphing calculators even though they mostly look like they should be—with how well graphing is integrated into the operating system, it seems like some pointy-haired boss simply took the fx-4000P and replaced some of its program memory with a graphing capability rather than actually designing a graphing calculator. Therefore, I shall submit to you all that all this fawning over such an uninspiring machine as the Casio fx-6300G (French electronics firm Lexibook has their mark on an entire series of clones of it and its non-programmable twin the fx-6200G) or almost anything not originally by TI or HP gives the lie to the saying that “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”—who sincerely thinks Casio is being flattered by any of this? Frankly, Casio probably isn’t even too proud of either these two calculators anymore—if they ever were all that proud of them anyway.
02-06-2015, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2015 11:05 PM by Hlib.)
Post: #30
 Hlib Member Posts: 171 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-02-2015 01:37 AM)Joseph_21sv Wrote:  Funny you should mention two calculators which are veiled clones of the Casio fx-6300G, which is mysteriously overrated given the programmable calculator that it actually is—the lowest of the low end of Casio’s graphing calculators...
I don't like FX-6300G, though it was my first pseudo-graphic calc. Graphic possibilities are absent here in both models. HP-9G (SRP-325G) aren't its clones (I don't know who told the first this nonsense about a clone). HP-9G has a powerful programming language, the excellent interface, independent memory in STAT-mode for 40 couples (X1Y1, X2Y2, ... XnYn) and many functions.
I would like to call this thread the "Forgotten technologies".
Even pulling out all batteries (first - BACKUP, then - MAIN) from FX-2.0 during computation we won't lose any byte of information. In case of restoration of a BACKUP supply within 2 minutes the FX-2.0 continues computation FROM THE MOMENT OF INTERRUPTION without failures. I several times lost all the programms in 39gii and in its emulator without reasons. New technologies from HP for the admirers?
We are now obliged to study hundreds of pages of manuals and much of bugs to master the "new calculator" from HP to write primitive programms or to execute simple computations. Progress from HP?
Summary.
For 'android' for the last five years it is created much more in maths, than HP did for the last 30 years. I was tired to read beautiful explanations from Tim Wessman at different forums. They earn their money. But I paid MY money and MY time for their defects in the last releases. They forgot the best calculator for the sake of dishonest business.

What is it? I know, but me these riddles were tired of from HP.
02-06-2015, 11:46 PM
Post: #31
 Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 514 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-06-2015 10:45 PM)Hlib Wrote:  I several times lost all the programms in 39gii and in its emulator without reasons. New technologies from HP for the admirers?
We are now obliged to study hundreds of pages of manuals and much of bugs to master the "new calculator" from HP to write primitive programms or to execute simple computations. Progress from HP?

If anyone else out these is as tired as I am with the endless repetition of Hlib's rants against the HP 39gii, I would remind you that the My BB software provides an "Add to Ignore List" feature.

I for one have made my first entry.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
02-07-2015, 01:11 AM
Post: #32
 Hlib Member Posts: 171 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-06-2015 11:46 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  If anyone else out these is as tired as I am with the endless repetition of Hlib's rants against the HP 39gii, I would remind you that the My BB software provides an "Add to Ignore List" feature.

I for one have made my first entry.

I speak about things which are known. And if tens hours of my operation suddenly disappeared from memory in 39gii, it not fairy tales. BTW, nobody tells about 39gii. There can be it "underrated programmables" too?
Mark, take it easy
02-07-2015, 02:36 AM
Post: #33
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,254 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 01:11 AM)Hlib Wrote:  I speak about things which are known. And if tens hours of my operation suddenly disappeared from memory in 39gii, it not fairy tales. BTW, nobody tells about 39gii. There can be it "underrated programmables" too?
Mark, take it easy

No one here doubts that these are known facts. Some shortcomings of the 39gii are fairly well known, and it was clearly not a very succesful model. The point is that we get that you don't like it. You've written it many, many times. The fact that more people don't agree with your posts, imho, is due to the nature of the members here. People come here because they like HP calculator products and they like to talk about them, learn about them, share information about them, etc. Being loudly negative among a group of people that are here to be postive likely means you will not get a lot of support, nor should you expect it.

Constructive criticism is useful and common here, it helps others learn and may even help HP to improve products. Criticism just to complain helps no one. You are of course entitled to your view, just don't be surprised or angry if others here don't support your repetitive rants. My comments are not intended to offend, only to help you understand. I hope they did that.

--Bob Prosperi
02-07-2015, 06:49 AM
Post: #34
 Gerald H Senior Member Posts: 1,448 Joined: May 2014
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 02:36 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(02-07-2015 01:11 AM)Hlib Wrote:  I speak about things which are known. And if tens hours of my operation suddenly disappeared from memory in 39gii, it not fairy tales. BTW, nobody tells about 39gii. There can be it "underrated programmables" too?
Mark, take it easy

No one here doubts that these are known facts. Some shortcomings of the 39gii are fairly well known, and it was clearly not a very succesful model. The point is that we get that you don't like it. You've written it many, many times. The fact that more people don't agree with your posts, imho, is due to the nature of the members here. People come here because they like HP calculator products and they like to talk about them, learn about them, share information about them, etc. Being loudly negative among a group of people that are here to be postive likely means you will not get a lot of support, nor should you expect it.

Constructive criticism is useful and common here, it helps others learn and may even help HP to improve products. Criticism just to complain helps no one. You are of course entitled to your view, just don't be surprised or angry if others here don't support your repetitive rants. My comments are not intended to offend, only to help you understand. I hope they did that.

Postings overly praising various models greatly outweigh negative comments on this forum.

Comments such as "I want to love this calculator" irritate me - surely it's a pleasant experience using the machine or not & you shouldn't ditch your critical faculties.

I find Hlib's comments in line with the title of the thread.

I also agree on the uselessness of the HP 38G & all it's descendents.
02-07-2015, 07:49 AM
Post: #35
 Gerald H Senior Member Posts: 1,448 Joined: May 2014
RE: Most underrated programmables
Back to the subject of the thread.

My candidate for most underrated calculator is the WP 34S.

That HP haven't bought the rights & produced purpose built hardware advocates blindness or ignorance on the part of those at HP responsible.

Slavishly praising is not my style, but a comparison of the WP 34S with any other presently produced calculator confirms me in my opinion.
02-07-2015, 11:00 AM
Post: #36
 Thomas Radtke Senior Member Posts: 746 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 07:49 AM)Gerald H Wrote:  My candidate for most underrated calculator is the WP 34S.
It isn't. It is widely used among its target audience, and the postings about it are nearly 100 % positive. How could a free calculator firmware possibly be rated higher?

(02-07-2015 07:49 AM)Gerald H Wrote:  That HP haven't bought the rights & produced purpose built hardware advocates blindness or ignorance on the part of those at HP responsible.
Was/is it on sale? It would be in the market of the 35s, which already is certified, if I can say so, for some tests in the USA as I understood. And since it obviously sells well (still on sale), HP would be silly to invest in another calculator cannibalizing 35s sales.
02-07-2015, 01:27 PM
Post: #37
 Hlib Member Posts: 171 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 02:36 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...My comments are not intended to offend, only to help you understand. I hope they did that.
HP-39gii, IMHO, is one of the best calculators for engineers I have ever bought. Quite good design, the high-quality keypad, speed and reliable algorithms. Unfortunately, unpredictability in operation, the unfinished solutions in power supply and in data security from loss don't allow to use all its potential.
Still it is necessary to increase RAM, to add saving of pictures, to eliminate flicker of the display with ~20Hz. At least. If to add "complex mode", it will be the super calculator. I don't understand why HP wants to do nothing with that.
02-07-2015, 01:54 PM
Post: #38
 Gerald H Senior Member Posts: 1,448 Joined: May 2014
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 07:49 AM)Gerald H Wrote:  My candidate for most underrated calculator is the WP 34S.
It isn't. It is widely used among its target audience, and the postings about it are nearly 100 % positive. How could a free calculator firmware possibly be rated higher?

(02-07-2015 07:49 AM)Gerald H Wrote:  That HP haven't bought the rights & produced purpose built hardware advocates blindness or ignorance on the part of those at HP responsible.
Was/is it on sale? It would be in the market of the 35s, which already is certified, if I can say so, for some tests in the USA as I understood. And since it obviously sells well (still on sale), HP would be silly to invest in another calculator cannibalizing 35s sales.

Yes, WP 34S is on sale at hpcalc.org & on ebay.
02-07-2015, 04:32 PM
Post: #39
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,254 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 06:49 AM)Gerald H Wrote:  I also agree on the uselessness of the HP 38G & all it's descendents.

I personally agree that the 38G and its followers are certainly not for me, but since it wasn't intended for me (Engineer, age/not a student, RPN background, etc.) this really doesn't come as a surprise.

What was a surprise, for me, is the very clear and obvious evolution these machines went through culminating in the Prime.

When I got my Prime, like many of you here, I was utterly confused about where such a design had come from; surely not from the stables that had produced so many thoroughbreds that I knew, loved and owned!

So I started researching it's ancestry... first with the 39gii - which is instantly recognizable as Prime's close ancestor, even if one doesn't know how to use much of it.

And so the research continued... back to the HP-38G. Exploring the specs and capabilities of these models reveals a very clear evolution into what ultimately became the Prime. Core concepts, new to most of us in the Prime, such as Home mode, Apps, Symbolic/Plot/Numeric views, etc. go all the way back to the 38G.

From here, today, this line appears (to me) to have been heavily influenced by TI and it's market dominance in eduction, but as I didn't "live through" that market segment and these machines as they emerged, I could well be totally wrong. But even if true, this makes sense since they were targetting the same customers, with strong influencers (teachers) educated in using those machines.

We agree, not for you or me, or even the vast majority of members here, but it's hard for me to conclude useless.

--Bob Prosperi
02-07-2015, 05:59 PM
Post: #40
 Thomas Radtke Senior Member Posts: 746 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Most underrated programmables
(02-07-2015 01:27 PM)Hlib Wrote:  I don't understand why HP wants to do nothing with that.

Quote: Low price doesn't matter to us. Why doesn't it have a color screen and fanciness?

You should know as you participated in this thread, if I'm not mistaken.
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