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I love MoHPC!
02-13-2021, 10:41 PM
Post: #1
I love MoHPC!
I love the MoHPC!

Now, that I've got that out of the way...

I'm wondering if the listings could be updated a bit?
(sad puppy dog eyes)

What I'm thinking, is now there are a LOT of calculators no longer being made by HP, they "deserve" (I'm being a bit overly dramatic there) a better listing.

More specifically, those relegated to "the back lot" on
https://www.hpmuseum.org/therest.htm

I know they were not the ones that brought birth to this website, but now (most) are "museum pieces".

I'm not asking Dave Hicks to write new pages for each one, but if volunteers would be willing to write pages and supply photos to "flesh out" the information of those calcs, it would increase the "site experience" overall.

Anyway, that is my request, and I'm open to further discussion.

10B, 10BII, 12C, 14B, 15C, 16C, 17B, 18C, 19BII, 20b, 22, 29C, 35, 38G, 39G, 41CV, 48G, 97
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02-14-2021, 05:49 PM
Post: #2
RE: I love MoHPC!
Hi Ren,

I agree with you. I love the Museum and pretty much everything about it too, but it is getting a little up there in age.

My top models for new pages are: the 32SII, the 48G series, later Pioneers, the 35s, and maybe the Prime or the 50g. I would love to see those all documented and beautifully photographed in the unique MoHPC style. However, I don't think models like the 6S and the really cheap recent models (300s+, etc.) deserve a page.

Just my opinion.

-Liam
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02-15-2021, 05:40 PM
Post: #3
RE: I love MoHPC!
Thank you! Currently, I am working on a modernization/refresh of the museum, converting from 1995ish HTML version (whatever) into more modern HTML and CSS. I'm not making any dramatic changes like multi column things, floating things or pop-up annoyances, but I am making it so it doesn't fill the entire screen with tiny text if you visit with a huge browser window and at the other end, also works well on phones, even fairly small ones.

This is something I have started and stopped several times in the past but I think I finally have it under control now. A big step forward happened when I realized that because I was adding CSS to otherwise old pages, the browser was seeing the old-style pages and going into "quirks mode" meant to make old websites presentable. Thus, many of my "Why doesn't this stuff ever work as documented?" questions went away once I figured out how not to be seen as old.

So now I have a Perl script to process old HTML into new HTML, and apply my CSS, then do some hand adjusting. Then I check it on a few devices and w3c validate it. So far, (as of last night) I have processed 12 out of a few hundred pages (or over a thousand including the old software library) but I think it will go much faster as it gets more routine. For the last couple of weeks, I've been at the: It's pretty much done, but oh look, … another interesting case in this page… update the script and/or CSS or just handle it manually...

One of the things that has kept me from adding new content in previous years is the feeling that I shouldn't be adding new content in an old format that all needs to be updated someday anyway.

Once, I get the update done, I might want some help on newer models! Most of my fanaticism was on the earlier models and then I got distracted by the 90 hour a week job I took in 1982.

At the very least, a listing of any features that were new to that model, or ways that it was distinct or unusual would help!
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02-15-2021, 08:14 PM
Post: #4
RE: I love MoHPC!
thanks very much for all this work Dave, and the museum in general.

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02-16-2021, 05:54 PM
Post: #5
RE: I love MoHPC!
Dave Hicks Wrote:Thank you! Currently, I am working on a modernization/refresh of the museum, converting from 1995ish HTML version (whatever) into more modern HTML and CSS. I'm not making any dramatic changes like multi column things, floating things or pop-up annoyances, but I am making it so it doesn't fill the entire screen with tiny text if you visit with a huge browser window and at the other end, also works well on phones, even fairly small ones.

Awesome! I'm excited to see how it looks. Though I think that some of the charm of the Museum comes from its wonderfully antiquated style---the simple fonts, graphics, and a focus on content, something lacking in so much of the Web. I'm also glad to hear that you're not focused on fancy scripted elements, like a header that follows as you scroll or anything. Those are always annoying and just detract from the good parts of a website.

Again, thank you for creating the Museum and hosting the forum platform. They are unique, and a place for every enthusiast to unite over love of HP calculators.

-Liam
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02-16-2021, 08:55 PM
Post: #6
RE: I love MoHPC!
(02-15-2021 05:40 PM)Dave Hicks Wrote:  Thank you! Currently, I am working on a modernization/refresh of the museum, converting from 1995ish HTML version (whatever) into more modern HTML and CSS. I'm not making any dramatic changes like multi column things, floating things or pop-up annoyances, but I am making it so it doesn't fill the entire screen with tiny text if you visit with a huge browser window and at the other end, also works well on phones, even fairly small ones.

Make sure you test it on WWW/LX! Wink
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02-21-2021, 05:58 PM
Post: #7
RE: I love MoHPC!
(02-16-2021 08:55 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  Make sure you test it on WWW/LX! Wink

And also DJGPP Lynx Tongue

Regards,

Jonathan

Aeternitas modo est. Longa non est, paene nil.
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02-21-2021, 06:06 PM
Post: #8
RE: I love MoHPC!
(02-15-2021 05:40 PM)Dave Hicks Wrote:  Thank you! Currently, I am working on a modernization/refresh of the museum, converting from 1995ish HTML version (whatever) into more modern HTML and CSS. I'm not making any dramatic changes like multi column things, floating things or pop-up annoyances, but I am making it so it doesn't fill the entire screen with tiny text if you visit with a huge browser window and at the other end, also works well on phones, even fairly small ones.

This is something I have started and stopped several times in the past but I think I finally have it under control now. A big step forward happened when I realized that because I was adding CSS to otherwise old pages, the browser was seeing the old-style pages and going into "quirks mode" meant to make old websites presentable. Thus, many of my "Why doesn't this stuff ever work as documented?" questions went away once I figured out how not to be seen as old.

So now I have a Perl script to process old HTML into new HTML, and apply my CSS, then do some hand adjusting. Then I check it on a few devices and w3c validate it. So far, (as of last night) I have processed 12 out of a few hundred pages (or over a thousand including the old software library) but I think it will go much faster as it gets more routine. For the last couple of weeks, I've been at the: It's pretty much done, but oh look, … another interesting case in this page… update the script and/or CSS or just handle it manually...

One of the things that has kept me from adding new content in previous years is the feeling that I shouldn't be adding new content in an old format that all needs to be updated someday anyway.

Once, I get the update done, I might want some help on newer models! Most of my fanaticism was on the earlier models and then I got distracted by the 90 hour a week job I took in 1982.

At the very least, a listing of any features that were new to that model, or ways that it was distinct or unusual would help!

This is great news! Smile I have been waiting for some of the "newer but out of production" models like the HP48G/G+/GX to be added. I think they should qualify for the Museum proper since they've been out of production for almost 18 years.

Also, I think some of the pages might need manual conversion to HTML5, especially pages like the Benchmarks page, which is a mess Smile

At any rate, thanks so much for your efforts! This site is invaluable to the HP calculator community and I hope it stays that way for many years to come Smile

Regards,

Jonathan

Aeternitas modo est. Longa non est, paene nil.
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03-15-2021, 10:34 PM
Post: #9
RE: I love MoHPC!
Here is a test link.

You can follow the links from that page to individual models, but you can't follow links farther than that since it is just a test directory.
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03-16-2021, 12:14 AM
Post: #10
RE: I love MoHPC!
Looks great at first glance, very clean.

Would it be worth considering a fixed-width font, in the code examples, so that the tabbed commentary lined up?

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03-16-2021, 12:18 AM
Post: #11
RE: I love MoHPC!
I like it, still a nice, minimalist design. I noticed some of the code block widths - and at least one paragraph width - were slightly inconsistent and wider than the rest. Also, there's a lot of white space down the sides. I'd suggest making things a tiny bit wider, and maybe including a modest navigation bar on one side (which may already be the plan).
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03-16-2021, 01:51 AM
Post: #12
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-16-2021 12:14 AM)cdmackay Wrote:  Would it be worth considering a fixed-width font, in the code examples, so that the tabbed commentary lined up?

Well that's strange and alarming, because they should all be fixed-width already. Are you seeing commentary not line up everywhere? Just somewhere?
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03-16-2021, 02:05 AM
Post: #13
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-16-2021 12:18 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  I like it, still a nice, minimalist design. I noticed some of the code block widths - and at least one paragraph width - were slightly inconsistent and wider than the rest. Also, there's a lot of white space down the sides. I'd suggest making things a tiny bit wider, and maybe including a modest navigation bar on one side (which may already be the plan).

I go wider on the code blocks when some long comments won't fit the usual margins. Usually I've been doing it only where needed, but if two code blocks are close (likely to be viewed together) then I tend to do both even if only one needs it. If they are too wide for the window (phones or narrow windows), then they scroll horizontally, which is OK but I wanted to avoid that where it wasn't needed. I found and fixed (what I assume is) the wide paragraph you found - thanks!

The current width was based on looking at on-line advice about optimal line lengths and then comparing some on-line newspaper sites. It's already at the longer end of the recommendations (maybe past many of them.) However, I did note one study that said that whatever length they chose, the two most-preferred options were the two most-extreme. (But maybe that's a sampling issue - ie: too many options in the middle means relatively more votes on the ends.) So, I guess I am open to more commentary on this.
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03-16-2021, 07:16 AM
Post: #14
RE: I love MoHPC!
Thank you Dave.
Probably it's only me, but I prefer Serif fonts, easier to the eye. Will its size be adjustable?
And it looks like there's a lot of empty space.

But I will,of course, adapt to any final outcome: it's the content what counts, rather than the dress. ;)

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    Massimo

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03-16-2021, 02:20 PM
Post: #15
RE: I love MoHPC!
Dave:

Nice, Clean look!!!

TomC

(03-15-2021 10:34 PM)Dave Hicks Wrote:  Here is a test link.

You can follow the links from that page to individual models, but you can't follow links farther than that since it is just a test directory.
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03-17-2021, 09:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2021 09:30 PM by cdmackay.)
Post: #16
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-16-2021 01:51 AM)Dave Hicks Wrote:  
(03-16-2021 12:14 AM)cdmackay Wrote:  Would it be worth considering a fixed-width font, in the code examples, so that the tabbed commentary lined up?

Well that's strange and alarming, because they should all be fixed-width already. Are you seeing commentary not line up everywhere? Just somewhere?

thanks Dave; example:

   

that's from Chrome 91; MacOS

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03-17-2021, 10:11 PM
Post: #17
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-17-2021 09:29 PM)cdmackay Wrote:  
(03-16-2021 01:51 AM)Dave Hicks Wrote:  Well that's strange and alarming, because they should all be fixed-width already. Are you seeing commentary not line up everywhere? Just somewhere?

thanks Dave; example:



that's from Chrome 91; MacOS

Chrome 89.0.4389.90; Win10x64
   

Greetings,
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-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
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03-17-2021, 11:12 PM
Post: #18
RE: I love MoHPC!
(03-17-2021 09:29 PM)cdmackay Wrote:  that's from Chrome 91; MacOS

Wow. For me, Firefox, Edge, and Chrome on Windows 10, Safari on iOS, (and even my "stress test" of IE 11 on Win 7) are showing like Massimo's version. I've asked another person with a Mac to take a look. Is the font you're getting there even any different than the main text font? (It doesn't look like the expected main font either.)

Gee I've occasionally thought about getting a Mac. Maybe this means I actually need one for testing.
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03-18-2021, 12:29 AM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2021 12:30 AM by Sylvain Cote.)
Post: #19
RE: I love MoHPC!
On macOS Catalina 10.15.7, this is what I am seeing with Safari 14.0.3 and with Firefox 86.0.1.
All Chrome related browsers has been banned from my computer, way too much resource hungry.
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03-18-2021, 02:01 AM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2021 02:01 AM by cruff.)
Post: #20
RE: I love MoHPC!
I am seeing the monospaced characters correctly on Firefox 86 on macOS Mojave (10.14.6). The test link pages look great.
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