While the usual 'full-kit' restored 97 is in the $700 range, an unrestored 97 with maybe a case and charger or manual can be had for $100-200. A 67 in similar condition goes for 100-150 more. Why is that? It seems the 97s are less popular than the 67s. And I suspect the fully restored ones go not to people who want to use them, but to collect them - meaning seal it up and store it away.
What of the usability of the 97?
I can imagine when we were in school, or physically commuting to work everyday, a smaller form factor would be desirable. But if you have have a secure workplace (like working from home) and a desk, the 97 is superior - at least to me. Printer and larger display make it an easy choice.
I'm curious what others think of this. If you had a choice between a 67 or 97 to use, what would you pick?
-J
Hello!
(05-23-2023 12:49 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote: [ -> ]Why is that? It seems the 97s are less popular than the 67s.
I think that this is a general problem of desktop calculators/calculating machines versus pocket calculators. At least as far as I am concerned, collecting destop calculators would quickly consume more space than I have. And from a technological point of view, they are much less interesting than pocket calculators, because they usually do not require miniaturised components or power efficient circuitry.
(05-23-2023 12:49 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote: [ -> ]What of the usability of the 97?
It's usability is great, the 97 is one of the few calculators that I actually did use for real work (ca. 1983), albeit only for a few weeks. If you can work from a desktop then it is much preferable - for me at least - to working with a 67. Larger display, larger keys, single shift key and a printer. Once you get used to the keyboard you can really type in large amounts of numbers in a very short time, much better than with any pocket calculator.
(05-23-2023 12:49 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote: [ -> ]I can imagine when we were in school, or physically commuting to work everyday, a smaller form factor would be desirable. But if you have have a secure workplace (like working from home) and a desk, the 97 is superior - at least to me. Printer and larger display make it an easy choice.
Exactly.
(05-23-2023 12:49 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote: [ -> ]I'm curious what others think of this. If you had a choice between a 67 or 97 to use, what would you pick?
Well, apart from the fact that I would use neither to do any serious work (Excel, Matlab/Scilab, Mathematica or dedicated software for the task at hand is what I would use instead) I actually do have the choice :-)
And my vote goes to the 67, one of which lies always charged on my desk ready to be used. The 97 is too big for leaving it on the desk permanently - my desk is small and full of other stuff - and I would have to get it out of storage every time I need it for which I am far too lazy.
Regards
Max
Personally I'd pick the HP97 . Used one quite a lot (not my own unfortunately) way back and the key layout with the single shift key is so much less cluttered than the HP67, I really liked it. It was a bit of a disappointment to discover that 'real' computers couldn't do decimal arithmetic in machine code (I didn't think 8 bit BCD addition counted)...
Oddly enough my first and possibly only bit of commercial software was a set of 10 digit decimal number routines that could do + - * and / using the 2nd cassette buffer of a Commodore PET.
I have a 97, and I think it's fantastic. The display is huge, and the keyboard is great. I've got a bunch of cards for it. It was a big pain to finally get the printer working - I had to replace the paper-advance roller, and track down a replacement for the stripped idler gear - so that might be what turns off some prospective buyers. My one complaint about its design is the front-to-back arrangement of the card reader. It's kind of awkward to feed the cards through, and having them come out the back limits how close you can have the calculator sitting against a wall/file cabinet/etc. A right-to-left path like the handhelds would be much nicer.
The 97 is great for all that Dave mentioned. For a spot on the desk its a win and the travel case is big and roomy.
-Bill
(05-23-2023 05:44 PM)Mike T. Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I'd pick the HP97 . Used one quite a lot (not my own unfortunately) way back and the key layout with the single shift key is so much less cluttered than the HP67, I really liked it. It was a bit of a disappointment to discover that 'real' computers couldn't do decimal arithmetic in machine code (I didn't think 8 bit BCD addition counted)...
Oddly enough my first and possibly only bit of commercial software was a set of 10 digit decimal number routines that could do + - * and / using the 2nd cassette buffer of a Commodore PET.
I discovered the same when I was doing 8080 assembly back in the day.
However a few years ago I did some 64bit assembly for a Linux environment.
You can do trig functions on floating point numbers in assembly.
...made me feel real old...
(05-23-2023 11:34 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote: [ -> ]However a few years ago I did some 64bit assembly for a Linux environment.
You can do trig functions on floating point numbers in assembly.
This have been available for a long time but if it was often an option when we were young:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprocesso...operations.
The cheapest 97 I can find right now is offered for 240 GBP, and it's 'untested', i.e. defect.
There must be a lot of love for it.
"However a few years ago I did some 64bit assembly for a Linux environment.
You can do trig functions on floating point numbers in assembly.
...made me feel real old... "
I vaguely remember doing floating point operations in IBM 370 assembler at CalTech when I was in High School back in the seventies.
(05-24-2023 07:44 AM)Thomas Radtke Wrote: [ -> ]The cheapest 97 I can find right now is offered for 240 GBP, and it's 'untested', i.e. defect.
There must be a lot of love for it.
you may need to revisit your statistics pac.
sample size and such.
just wait.
I have 5 HP-97s I've accumulated in the last three months for under $200.
All good cosmetic shape just awaiting card reader and paper advance refurb.
-J
(05-24-2023 02:56 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote: [ -> ]I have 5 HP-97s I've accumulated in the last three months for under $200.
Ok give one to Thomas :-)
Thanks :-).
But let him repair it first.
The 67 and 97 were my "dream machines" when I was in high school but they were way out of my price range. I would still like to have a working 97 on my desk just for the "cool" factor. Tony's PC emulator is the next best thing, right down to the realistic printer sound.
Meanwhile my collection grew to several 97s. Most of them restored to fully working card reader and printer rollers.
Maybe I should sell some :-) as I can‘t use more than one at the same time. Ok - a second one while a program is still running on the other :-D
(05-24-2023 07:22 PM)AndiGer Wrote: [ -> ]Meanwhile my collection grew to several 97s. Most of them restored to fully working card reader and printer rollers.
Maybe I should sell some :-) as I can‘t use more than one at the same time. Ok - a second one while a program is still running on the other :-D
Yep that's what started this thread.
In addition to my 'Inbox' of 5 machines queued up for work, I have 5 units I restored. So when the dust settles, do I really need 10 HP-97s? Of course not. I keep one in the lab and one in a bookcase in the study in case I need to use them. The others are stored away.
Yet I'm moved to buy them when I consider it a bargain. A 97 for $200 that is repairable in a day is a bargain to me. Card reader repair is easy, The printer is easy too, just more tedious. After you've done a couple, the next ones go much faster.
And yes most of my 'real work' is on spreadsheets these days. But I go out of my way to process some of the simpler problems and hobby related work on the old machines, just so I can use them.
And in retrospect, decades ago I would have chosen the 67 over the 97. Mainly for portability reasons. Now that's not much of an issue. Bigger desks and weaker eyes!
-J
[35/45/55/80/70/65/67/67T/97/97S/91/92/21/22/27/25C/29C/19C/10/
31E/32E/33C/34C/37E/38C/41CX/71B/28S/19BII/12C/15C/33S/35S/32SII/
48GX/50G/Prime/DM42]
John,
As you have the skills and lots of experience to restore 97's and card readers, why not offer a repair service for other members here? It would generate funds for the kinds of toys you prefer, and greatly satisfy a bunch of proud new HP-97 owners, who will find an important new reason to reorganize their desk.
The cost should of course be commensurate with the value the service provides, I'm certainly not suggesting a cheap or free service; as you pointed out, the resulting value seems to make it a no-brainer for owners to justify the repair, though most would not then be sold.
This may not be as attractive for many non-US customers due to the rising postal rates, but I suspect even with those high costs, there would be some takers.
Just a thought...
I have three (awaiting repair) and would put one on my office desk if I had one (since Corona we‘re desk-sharing). I never paid more than about 125€. Maybe they‘re not as popular because they don’t have the typical HP look or people don’t recognize them as easily.
Compared to a HP-46 they’re definitely diminutive but can do a lot more.
What I don’t like about them is the requirement for a battery pack even when running them from mains.
I have 2 and at a time, I had one on my desk at work and another at home.
They are really nice to use, the keyboard is a dream but they are big and I got used to the modern multi-lines screens of the DM42/41X/C43...
I may find the courage to sell them but it is hard.
(05-25-2023 05:15 PM)pascal_meheut Wrote: [ -> ]I have 2 and at a time, I had one on my desk at work and another at home.
They are really nice to use, the keyboard is a dream but they are big and I got used to the modern multi-lines screens of the DM42/41X/C43...
I may find the courage to sell them but it is hard.
The only pre-Voyager calculator I own is a 97. It was also the most expensive to purchase, but I was luckily able to go to the seller's house and play with it for an afternoon before parting with my hard-earned cash. The UK market is a smidgen of the US market and now with Brexit, the Continental Europe market has now become far less attractive too. So locating a 97 in prime condition again will be a very tough ask.
I'm all about HP emulators making the most of modern platforms, but I'll never succumb to the temptation of selling my 97.
One of the few calculators I sold was my original 48GX, and I regretted selling it as soon as the courier took it out of my hands. I had to wait a long time to find one on the UK market at the right price (sub £100), and luckily got one with both 1meg and 128k cards as part of the bargain. The 128k card stopped working (not battery related) and I then had a long wait for RetroTronik to produce their second run of cards to get a new 128k card. Huzzah, on that front.
Even if they ever manage to make a wonderful version of a 48 series on SwissMicros hardware (and I'll be at the front of the queue if they do), I'll never part with my 48/50 hardware either. I've got a 49+ I might sell, but I'll be guilty as hell as it's a second gen 49+ with a "not terrible" keyboard, but it's still far less than ideal.
Moral of the story, you've got two 97s. Maybe sell one, but both will leave you with an itch you'll find extremely hard to scratch.
We must also give a shout out to Anthony Nixon and his "drop-in" board for this model (and others) that brings a new dimension to its functionality! (
http://www.teenix.org if I'm allowed)