The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 20

 when is a red dot a dot, and when not? and if not, then what?Message #1 Posted by robert rozee on 10 Oct 2011, 11:30 a.m. the discussion of "red dot" HP35's recurs again and again, with a great deal of speculation and hand waving around the authenticity of said dot. it seems that anyone can take ANY HP35 and drill a hole in the front of it to turn it into the elusive "red dot" variant. so i pose these questions: 1. what, if any, difference is there between a front casing that has been moulded with a 'red dot' hole in it, and one that has had the hole drilled later? 2. what, if any, difference is there (beyond a dot of paint) between the power switch in a "red dot" HP35 and the power switch in a later (non-dot) 35? were 'red dot' switches ever fitted (with dot not visible) to later 35's? 3. did HP ever drill "red dot" holes when carrying out repairs that required replacing a damaged front casing on an early 35? given the large number of 35's that were reworked, outside labelling doesn't appear to be any reliable indicator of a given 35's true heritage. and if a "red dot" is so easy to 'fake', is it even a worthwhile point to base a premium price/value upon? surely the presence of the ln(2.02) bug burnt into the ROMs is a better point of distinction? comments?

 Re: when is a red dot a dot, and when not? and if not, then what?Message #2 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 10 Oct 2011, 12:13 p.m.,in response to message #1 by robert rozee This is a red dot:

 Re: when is a red dot a dot, and when not? and if not, then what?Message #3 Posted by bill platt on 10 Oct 2011, 1:07 p.m.,in response to message #2 by Michael de Estrada Looks orange to me :-0

 Re: when is a red dot a dot, and when not? and if not, then what?Message #4 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 10 Oct 2011, 1:23 p.m.,in response to message #3 by bill platt To me, it looks more like a waste of bandwidth. You know, I'm on the EDGE here ( <- great joke! ). :-/

 Re: when is a red dot a dot, and when not? and if not, then what?Message #5 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 10 Oct 2011, 6:05 p.m.,in response to message #2 by Michael de Estrada In my computer screen these are actually about 120,176 red dots (I knew the HHC 2011 programming challenge would prove useful one day :-)

 Re: when is a red dot a dot, and when not? and if not, then what?Message #6 Posted by Walter B on 11 Oct 2011, 1:14 a.m.,in response to message #5 by Gerson W. Barbosa That's an undisputed advantage of SW over HW: when you've solved a problem, it's solved for all time.

 Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #7 Posted by Frank Boehm (Germany) on 11 Oct 2011, 6:28 a.m.,in response to message #1 by robert rozee But please understand that I won't spill out all the secrets, as it might help fraudsters. But: Drilling a hole will *never* turn it into a red dot. There are several details that can not be falsified. I agree that a blurry picture might help in ripping off a buyer, but as soon as you are able to inspect the item or have good enough pictures, there is no chance to fool an expert (and there are a couple of them on this forum, they won't spill out the secrets as well...). To answer at least one question: I don't think HP ever drilled a hole into a HP35 case :)On a sidenote: the red dot is really pointless - the battery might be dead, but it will still show the red dot...

 Re: Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #8 Posted by robert rozee on 11 Oct 2011, 8:39 a.m.,in response to message #7 by Frank Boehm (Germany) Quote: But please understand that I won't spill out all the secrets, as it might help fraudsters. But: Drilling a hole will *never* turn it into a red dot. There are several details that can not be falsified. what are those other details?! remember, labels and rubber feet (that can have been legitimately replaced) don't count. what other structural difference is there that can be observed or measured? for instance, is the front casing different internally in some way?

 Re: Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #9 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 11 Oct 2011, 10:53 a.m.,in response to message #8 by robert rozee Quote: what are those other details?! remember, labels and rubber feet (that can have been legitimately replaced) don't count. what other structural difference is there that can be observed or measured? for instance, is the front casing different internally in some way? I am not a HP 35 expert, but my guess is, the answers to your questions fall under: Quote: I won't spill out all the secrets, as it might help fraudsters.

 Re: Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #10 Posted by David Ramsey on 11 Oct 2011, 11:15 a.m.,in response to message #7 by Frank Boehm (Germany) Quote: But please understand that I won't spill out all the secrets, as it might help fraudsters. C'mon, that's silly. If we can't discuss the details of things like this here, where can we discuss them? Is preventing fraudsters from manufacturing fake Red Dots any more important than withholding details that might allow a buyer not to be tricked? Since some of the details "cannot be falsified", I don't see what the problem is anyway.

 Re: Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #11 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 11 Oct 2011, 1:33 p.m.,in response to message #10 by David Ramsey Quote: Is preventing fraudsters from manufacturing fake Red Dots any more important than withholding details that might allow a buyer not to be tricked? Since some of the details "cannot be falsified", I don't see what the problem is anyway. Good questions. Answers, anyone?

 Re: Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #12 Posted by Juergen Keller on 12 Oct 2011, 6:14 a.m.,in response to message #7 by Frank Boehm (Germany) Quote: There are several details that can not be falsified. So what's the point of not discussing it here??? Is there a 'I know the Red Dot secrets' club that you have to join first?

 Re: Fortunately, it's not that easy.Message #13 Posted by Michael Eckstein on 12 Oct 2011, 8:24 a.m.,in response to message #12 by Juergen Keller AFAIK there in no secret database of unfalsifiable Red Dot details. It's rather a private investigation of the RD owners, some specific feature could be known by just one person. But there are many well known details from which could be determined, whether HP 35 is really the Red Dot. From what you see in the auction on TAS follows that the calculator is very probably a true Red Dot, but it was definitely modified either in the HP service or elsewhere since it lacks several ot those well known features.

 Is this a Red Dot ?Message #14 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 12 Oct 2011, 9:22 a.m.,in response to message #13 by Michael Eckstein Where is the Red Dot ?

 Re: Is this a Red Dot ?Message #15 Posted by Michael Eckstein on 12 Oct 2011, 9:48 a.m.,in response to message #14 by Michael de Estrada Apparently it's missing :-) and it could be for several possible reasons. But that does not mean that it had to be a fake.

 Posted: A response from the seller of the red dot HP 35Message #16 Posted by gene wright on 13 Oct 2011, 1:49 p.m.,in response to message #14 by Michael de Estrada The seller of this item asked me to post this for everyone. The red dot is not mine nor am I bidding on it. It appears if you have any questions he will be happy to answer them. ================= I have the HP-35 Red Dot up for auction on TAS. We recently purchased Guy Ball's collection and this was one of the items. I personally have been dealing with these type items for years and work diligently to provide high quality, authentic items at all times. Anyone that has purchased from us knows we stand behind our products and offer a 14 day money back guarantee for any reason. This particular calculator may have been sent back for repair of the 2.02 bug and had some label changes by the factory. It does have the correct serial label and the serial number is close to the one on Michael's site that also is missing the red color. If you have any questions please email me at sctt.reynolds@gmail.com Regards, Scott Reynolds Vintage Calculators Inc Owner

 Re: Is this a Red Dot ?Message #17 Posted by Randy on 13 Oct 2011, 3:37 p.m.,in response to message #14 by Michael de Estrada Quote:Where is the Red Dot ? Hidden, on the other side of the slide switch. Classic rookie re-assembly error.

 WP-34s red dot?Message #18 Posted by Dominic Richens on 11 Oct 2011, 6:33 a.m.,in response to message #1 by robert rozee Eric should do a run of WP-34s overlays with a red dot somewhere so our children and grand-children can make a fortune on eBay :-)

 Re: WP-34s red dot?Message #19 Posted by Walter B on 11 Oct 2011, 6:21 p.m.,in response to message #18 by Dominic Richens I vote for placing a red dot over EEX a.k.a. L so Egan knows where to find his LASTx :-)

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