The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 18

 Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #1 Posted by Chris Dean on 11 Mar 2008, 5:55 a.m. Don posed a challenge a time ago Quote: OK, here is a challenge. Devise an RPN program or Solver solution to the following problem. Refer to this. Assume this pattern continues forever. I want to input a number, like 19, and the program must tell me the 4 adjacent numbers, like 6, 18, 40, and 20. I see the patterns of square numbers, but I'm not sure this will help me figure out the four numbers I am interested in. Although I am quite slow in responding I have analysed this problem and developed a HP 17BII+ Solver solution that works for any number greater than 3. ```Solution Select N Lower square value L = IntegerPart(SQuareRT(N)+0.0001) The solution will be given for N > 3. The ^ or 'hat' symbol means 'to the power of' and '_' is used as a line continuation symbol. A number of cases exist leading to different solutions to obtain the adjacent numbers to N 1. N = L^2 (at the square value) 2. N = L^2 + 1 (at the first corner after the lower square value) 3. L^2 + 1 < N < L^2 + L + 1 (between the first corner and the next) 4. N = L^2 + L + 1 (at the next corner) 5. N > L^2 + L + 1 (greater than the next corner) Let A and C be the vertical results and B and D the horizontal results then for each case 1. A = (L – 2)^2 + 1, B = N +1, C = (L+ 2)^2 – 1, D = N – 1 2. A = N + 1, B = (L + 2)^2 + 2, C = (L + 2)^2, D = N - 1 3. A = N + 1,B = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 1, C = N – 1, D = (L - 2)^2 + (N – L^2) – 1 4. A = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 3, B = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 1, C = N – 1, D = N + 1 5. A = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 3, B = N – 1, C = (L - 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 3, D = N + 1 I have written a HP 17bII+ Solve program to output the results. ULAM = IF(N<4:0:(L(L:IP(SQRT(N)+0.0001))+L(L2:LxL)+ _ IF(N=L2:L(A:(L-2)x(L-2)+1)+L(B:N+1)+L(C:(L+2)x(L+2)-1) +L(D:N-1):0)+ _ IF(N=L2+1:L(A:N+1)+L(B:(L+2)x(L+2)+2)+L(C:B-2) +L(D:N-1):0)+ _ IF(N>L2+1 AND NL2+L+1:L(A:(L+2)x(L+2)+(N-L2)+3)+L(B:N-1)+ _ L(C:(L-2)x(L-2)+N-L2-3)+L(D:N+1):0))x0+A+B+C+D) It is important to check that the brackets match as this may lead to a compile problem or spurious results. On the menu bar input N and press ULAM. To see the results RCL A, RCL B, RCL C and RCL D. ``` I hope this may be of passing interest and gives another example of HP 17bII+ programming. Chris Dean Edited: 12 Mar 2008, 2:47 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #2 Posted by Allen on 11 Mar 2008, 8:04 a.m.,in response to message #1 by Chris Dean Very interesting solution using the square factors. 1 question: should Quote: 2. A = N + 1, B = (L + 2)^2 + 2, C = (L + 2)^2, D = N is D=N-1? What is the purpose in adding some 0.0001 to the values.. I saw this in another post,but have not used it myself. Kind regards,Al

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #3 Posted by Chris Dean on 11 Mar 2008, 9:20 a.m.,in response to message #2 by Allen Allen The value for D should be N-1 as you said and I have edited my post accordingly. Thanks for pointing that out. The reason I add 0.0001 is to make sure that the square root is rounded up so that when the integer part is used it does not round down say 2.999999999 to 2 when the answer should be 3. Chris Edited: 11 Mar 2008, 9:26 a.m.

 Wow!!Message #4 Posted by Don Shepherd on 11 Mar 2008, 10:31 a.m.,in response to message #1 by Chris Dean Chris, this is great. Allen provided an RPL and RPN solution, Gerson provided a BASIC solution, and now you have provided a solver solution. I can't wait to enter it in my 17bii+ and try it out. I appreciate all the work you (and Allen and Gerson) obviously put into this. It provides a great example of how HP calcs, regardless of the programming platform (RPL, RPN, BASIC, or solver) can solve problems. I have always been interested in how the 17bii can be "programmed" to solve problems, and your code is an excellent example. Thanks again.

 Re: Wow!!Message #5 Posted by Chris Dean on 11 Mar 2008, 10:44 a.m.,in response to message #4 by Don Shepherd Don Thanks. I like using the HP 17bII+ as it tends to rely on algorithm development and as I have hopefully shown the code appears to be more meaningful than RPN programming. Using the Solve functionality is quite limited as sub programs cannot be used however this adds to the challenge! Chris Edited: 11 Mar 2008, 10:44 a.m.

 Re: Wow!!Message #6 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 11 Mar 2008, 1:16 p.m.,in response to message #5 by Chris Dean Quote: Using the Solve functionality is quite limited as sub programs cannot be used ... Yes you can! Perhaps not called a sub program, but nested IF's and the S function accomplish the same purpose. At least on a 17B, and 27S. I have never used the 17BII+.

 Re: Wow!!Message #7 Posted by Chris Dean on 11 Mar 2008, 1:56 p.m.,in response to message #6 by Martin Pinckney Martin Thanks for comment. If I had an equation say, A*Sin(Theta) + B * cos(Theta) and I had sub-programs for the sin and cos functions how could I use the IF and S function for this? Or could you show me an example of something you have done. I have read the manual and the IF and S function combined looks rather limited to me. Maybe I am not appreciating the power of the If and S function functionality. Chris

 Re: Wow!!Message #8 Posted by Allen on 12 Mar 2008, 1:35 a.m.,in response to message #5 by Chris Dean Quote: I like using the HP 17bII+ as it tends to rely on algorithm development... I like the different solutions above. Can you explain further what you mean about algorithm development? Neglecting the trivial (N +/- 1) solutions, the SOLVER solution above uses 5 decisions (IF statements) to pick between 10 different formulas. The RPL solution uses a common answer for the first response (I+2c+3), and a single IF statement to decide the second response, choosing: I-2c+5 if the number is on a side or I+2c+5 if the number is on a corner. Are you saying that a solution that uses 5 IF statements in place of one is more reliant on algorithm development? I developed the math formulas with pen and paper, and only when completed sat down to translate them into a program. I think both solutions require substantial algorithm development, only the last step of implementation is different.

 Re: Wow!!Message #9 Posted by Chris Dean on 12 Mar 2008, 3:57 a.m.,in response to message #8 by Allen Allen Having programmed all types of calculators over the years I must admit that the HP 17bII+ seems to be pretty challenging. This is why I say that to produce a solution on it relies heavily on development effort. This to me is part of the fun in programming it. I am in no way decrying yours or anyone elses excellent efforts to produce a solution. Chris

 Re: Wow!!Message #10 Posted by Allen on 12 Mar 2008, 7:43 a.m.,in response to message #9 by Chris Dean I do not think you are.. I am printing your solution so I can study what you did. I just didn't understand the comment :-)

 Re: Wow!!Message #11 Posted by Chris Dean on 12 Mar 2008, 12:59 p.m.,in response to message #10 by Allen I think I phrased my comment badly!

 Combine terms for entry??Message #12 Posted by allen on 12 Mar 2008, 11:40 p.m.,in response to message #11 by Chris Dean Chris, Thanks again for the different solution. I also had this issue with the RPL solution when I shaved 20 bytes off the program. If you expand the parens and combine terms here: Quote: ``` 3. A = N + 1,B = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 1, C = N – 1, D = (L - 2)^2 + (N – L^2) – 1 4. A = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 3, B = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 1, C = N – 1, D = N + 1 5. A = (L + 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 3, B = N – 1, C = (L - 2)^2 + (N – L^2) + 3, D = N + 1 ``` You will find (as with 3.) That all of the L^2 terms will fall out leaving N+4L+5 or N-4L+3 That is much easier to input for your program and may save you some time testing. ```3. A = N + 1,B = N + 4*L + 5, C = N – 1, D = N - 4*L + 3 4. A = N + 4*L + 7, B = N + 4*L + 5, C = N – 1, D = N + 1 5. A = N + 4*L + 7, B = N – 1, C = N - 4*L + 1, D = N + 1 ``` I am keenly interested in how you arrived at the formulas, as you succeeded in something I could not. Namely, that I new that the output is a function of square root of the input, but I could not get there without a RPL loop to count the corner values. Excellent work! Edited: 12 Mar 2008, 11:40 p.m.

 Re: Combine terms for entry??Message #13 Posted by Chris Dean on 13 Mar 2008, 3:55 a.m.,in response to message #12 by allen Allen Because the spiral has the pattern of squares 'one away' from each corner it seemed to me that there must be an underlying formula. I spent a couple of days (at odd moments) just pen and papering. I decided that the algorithm only needed to use the lower square root value and that formulae had to be developed for a vertical value and a horizontal values plus special conditions for corners and at the square root. During the course of doing this I developed conditions for determining all 9 surrounding values. However this was not required for the problem but added a challenging extra to the problem. I did not develop the formulae for each of these conditions and I would definitely not program these into my HP 17bII+ as I think it would stretch the limits of my patience too far! I would possibly use BASIC. With regards to your 'collecting terms' I did do this but I thought it lost meaning especially when presenting it to others. I also thought that because it is just a straight through solution (no looping) any speed benefits were not worth the loss of readability. I could possibly be wrong about this and as you rightly pointed out it would have made the programming and testing easier. Thank you for your comments and the interest you have shown in my efforts. Chris

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #14 Posted by Don Shepherd on 11 Mar 2008, 10:49 p.m.,in response to message #1 by Chris Dean Chris, maybe I'm wrong (I used MS Word to count 3 times), but I get 48 left parens and 49 right parens. Could you double-check? I'm reluctant to start entering this until my parens balance.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #15 Posted by Trent Moseley on 11 Mar 2008, 11:46 p.m.,in response to message #14 by Don Shepherd Question. Why is the HP17bII+ not in the library? I'm intersted in the discussion and I don't know anything about the calc. tm

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #16 Posted by Don Shepherd on 13 Mar 2008, 2:49 p.m.,in response to message #15 by Trent Moseley Trent, the 17B is in the library, and the bii+ is a descendant from that model, as near as I can tell. I think the key layout and basic functionality is the same. Since this is a "museum," only the vintage calcualtors are featured, although anything goes on the forum.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #17 Posted by Chris Dean on 12 Mar 2008, 2:51 a.m.,in response to message #14 by Don Shepherd Don There is a typo L(C:B-2)) should read L(C:B-2) in the third line. I did not have this extra bracket in my code on the HP 17bII+! I have edited the listing accordingly. Apologies! Chris Edited: 12 Mar 2008, 4:14 a.m.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #18 Posted by Don Shepherd on 12 Mar 2008, 7:53 a.m.,in response to message #17 by Chris Dean Thanks Chris. I'll try it out today.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #19 Posted by Don Shepherd on 12 Mar 2008, 3:35 p.m.,in response to message #17 by Chris Dean Hey Chris, I entered the code on my 17bii+ silver edition and I don't get the correct results. If I enter n=40, for a/b/c/d respectively I get 168/168/168/19 (only 19 is correct). If I enter n= 119 I get 484/484/484/120. For n=141 I get 572/572/572/142, again only the last value is correct. I have checked the code twice and I think I entered it correctly. My key sequence (after CALC) is: 40 N ULAM RCL (more) A, then it displays A=168. Can you give me some inputs and outputs from your execution? Thanks.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #20 Posted by Bill (Smithville, NJ) on 12 Mar 2008, 4:54 p.m.,in response to message #19 by Don Shepherd Hi Don, I cut and pasted Chris's code into the HP-200LX solver. Just had to change the x to * for multiplication. I get the the following results for your data: ``` N = 19 A = 20 B = 40 c = 18 d = 6 ULAM = 84 N = 40 A = 41 B = 69 c = 39 d = 19 ULAM = 168 N = 119 A = 166 B = 118 c = 80 d = 120 ULAM = 484 N = 141 A = 192 B = 140 c = 98 d = 142 ULAM = 572 ``` Hope this helps. Bill

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #21 Posted by Chris Dean on 12 Mar 2008, 5:56 p.m.,in response to message #19 by Don Shepherd Don I have checked my listing against the code on my HP 17bII+ and they match. I have also checked a number of results and they are correct. I noticed you said A=168 for N = 40. Actually A should be 41 and the value 168 is the result of A+B+C+D. The soft keys should be ULAM, N, L, L2, B, MORE. Click MORE to get A, C, D. As an example enter 40 and Press N then Press ULAM, when finished the display should show ULAM = 168. Press RCL B to show B=69, Press MORE to show the rest of the soft keys, Press RCl A to display A=41, Press RCL C to display C=39 and finally press RCL D to display D=19. Press MORE to return to the first set of soft keys. Some sample results that I got from my HP 17bII+ are ``` A B C D 40 41 69 39 19 75 114 74 44 76 82 83 123 121 81 91 134 132 90 92 100 65 101 143 99 119 166 118 80 120 141 192 140 98 142 ``` I hope this helps. Chris Edited: 12 Mar 2008, 6:07 p.m.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #22 Posted by Bill (Smithville, NJ) on 12 Mar 2008, 6:11 p.m.,in response to message #21 by Chris Dean Hi Chris, I get the same results on the HP-200 as you did with the exception of N=1191. For N=1191, I get ```A=1334 B=1332 C=1190 D=1192 ``` Not sure why the difference. Bill

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #23 Posted by Chris Dean on 12 Mar 2008, 6:16 p.m.,in response to message #22 by Bill (Smithville, NJ) Bill Sorry I edited the large ones as they where unchecked by me and entered the more reasonable values used by Don. For 1191 I get A = 1334, B = 1332, C = 1190, D = 1192. I must have typoed previously (not again!). Sorry I am also watching my team Tottenham Hotspur playing PSV. It has just gone to penalties!!!!!!!!!!! Chris Edited: 12 Mar 2008, 6:20 p.m.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #24 Posted by Don Shepherd on 12 Mar 2008, 9:38 p.m.,in response to message #21 by Chris Dean Thanks, Chris. I think I found the problem. I was pressing RCL then MORE then A, and that does not work. Apparently, when you press RCL your next keypress needs to be one of the soft keys already displayed, because pressing MORE must confuse RCL and you don't get the proper values. So if you want to see A, for example, you need to press MORE until A is displayed, THEN press RCL A. I was thinking you could avoid the MORE by using G(L) and G(L2) references everywhere, but you would still come up one spot short. Drat. Great work. Thanks for your help.

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #25 Posted by Chris Dean on 13 Mar 2008, 3:59 a.m.,in response to message #24 by Don Shepherd Don I am glad we have got there in the end! As I have previously said I think the HP 17bII+ is a challenging machine to use which adds to the fun of it all!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chris

 Re: Ulam's Spiral on HP 17bII+Message #26 Posted by Don Shepherd on 13 Mar 2008, 2:44 p.m.,in response to message #25 by Chris Dean I agree, Chris. You and Allen have ably demonstrated how this calculator can do things that the inventor probably never imagined. When I bought my 17bii+ a year ago I never imagined that it could be programmed to solve problems like you and Allen have shown. I personally think it is great to solve non-financial problems on a financial calculator!

Go back to the main exhibit hall