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HP Forum Archive 18

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Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #1 Posted by Jake Schwartz on 12 Nov 2007, 3:26 p.m.

This might sound like a stupid question/suggestion, but...has anyone thought of prototyping the software on the 50g? Could a high-end 4-level RPN model be done on the 50g using its display and keyboard as a starting point, mapping the functions to the most logical key positions as a test machine? That way, changes in the "firmware" could be tested on a real piece of hardware. Just a thought.

Jake Schwartz

      
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #2 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 12 Nov 2007, 3:31 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jake Schwartz

Now that is a very interesting idea... given we have a gcc for the 50g!

Soooooo..... ahem..... do we have a spec :-)?

            
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #3 Posted by Meenzer on 12 Nov 2007, 3:36 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Arne Halvorsen (Norway)

Quote:
Now that is a very interesting idea... given we have a gcc for the 50g!

hpgcc

                  
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #4 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 12 Nov 2007, 4:25 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Meenzer

Yea! :-), tried to be english smart... meant, hot idea because we do HAVE a gcc for 50g (and it's series)!

I will do it again, sorry in advance...

Anyway, now we just do have to hack the spec...

Edited: 12 Nov 2007, 4:26 p.m.

      
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #5 Posted by Jeff O. on 13 Nov 2007, 10:35 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jake Schwartz

Has anybody considered using Thomas Okken's excellent Free42 as a basis for the Phoenix 45s software? (Assuming, of course, that Thomas would be willing to have his source code used as a basis for this project.) Free 42 is, after all, a faithful recreation of the beloved 42S, whose demise is basically the root cause of the need and/or desire for the 45s. With a few enhancements, it could easily embody all of the traits and functions which have been proposed for the 45s. In another thread, it was strongly suggested that C would be the best choice for the Phoenix 45s software. Free42 is written in C++, but past discussion indicates that conversion to C would not be out of the realm of possibility. Why reinvent the wheel when 90% of the work has been done?

PS - I am not lobbying for Thomas to get involved or do the required work, unless he wants to. Id be happy to work on it if the project has time to wait for me to learn C.

            
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #6 Posted by thyl on 15 Nov 2007, 8:43 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Jeff O.

Err, maybe time for promoting an older idea of mine again:

I believe that the time of high featured pocket calculators is over. BUT:

What about a combination of a software emulation (why not Free42, though I would prefer something with RPL) in combination with a nice, dedicated calculator keyboard?

A functinoal keyboard is, after all, the main key (pls allow for the pun) to a good calculator.

A target platform could e.g. be Apple's iPhone (IF they get the SDK out, and IF there will be a Bluetooth HID profile etc.).

I am rather confident that this could reduce the development effort, and in particular in the hardware field, only a specific Bluetooth keyboard would need to be developped.

Incidently, such a keybaord could also double as a normal querty-like keyboard, if designed accordingly, maybe similar to the one of the HP75 or the 71B.

Edited: 15 Nov 2007, 8:55 a.m.

                  
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #7 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 15 Nov 2007, 9:39 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by thyl

IPhone is pretty much a closed platform. Perhaps Google's new Android platform would be something to get ahead on.

Anyway, such thing will always be 'simualting' a calculator in my mind, and propably not alone in that has less apeal, after all I can get 35s and 50g *calculators*.

However, for prototyping the pc (perfect calculator), yea may be interesting.

Edited: 15 Nov 2007, 9:41 a.m.

                        
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #8 Posted by thyl on 15 Nov 2007, 11:06 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Arne Halvorsen (Norway)

I remember a time when pocket calculator were a gadget to carry around. This has now completely shifted to mobeil phones. As people generally do not prefer to carry around two devices (look at the hype and eventual failure of PDAs), in order to come up with something successful, it must :

1. be provided on the presently en-vogue gadget, the mobile 2. give an additional incentive to carry two devices again, i.e. a keyboard which can also be used for normal text entry.

Open or not, iPhone is an important device, for the following reasons: -A lot of people buy them -These people have an above average income, and are therefore interesting in terms of offering them a pocket calculator -It has a full-fledged OS

Also, keep in mind that manufacturing the tools for the case (including the keys) alone will cost you in the range of several 10000 USD. Thus, you do need a lot of people who will buy the device.

                              
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #9 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 15 Nov 2007, 11:31 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by thyl

You are right ofcourse. I just belive I never would like to use mobile phone for the task I may engage in on a 41C, 35s or a 50g.

Much possible I could be proven wrong ofcourse, and it is a subjective matter which I think I share with other HP RPN oldies (could be wrong again :-).

Doing it on the other hand could be lot of fun, and possible a great learning exerience. I should have a look at the google mobil platform for profesional reasons. Started some jave rpn programming that is on hold, perhaps continue on that. Or propably do not have the time :-(

                                    
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #10 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 15 Nov 2007, 11:40 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Arne Halvorsen (Norway)

OH, I just remembered one real reason I do not want the perfect calculator on a phone:

In the middle of solving a complex and interesting problem (ok, perhaps not me, but some other smart nobelprize winning guy)...... and ....... the telephone rings!

                                          
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #11 Posted by thyl on 15 Nov 2007, 1:29 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Arne Halvorsen (Norway)

No problem with the iPhone, as it is UNIX multitasking. The same for Google and Symbian. But,...what a terrible thought.;-)

                                    
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #12 Posted by thyl on 15 Nov 2007, 2:10 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Arne Halvorsen (Norway)

Always keep in mind: such an approach would still give us solid hardware, but would avoid most of the problems associated with laying out a complete, specific hardware design. A keyboard could be run on standard components (key array controller, Bluetooth transceiver), yet provide the "real feeling" one will expect from a calculator, in particular an HP split off.

Frankly, I believe it would be too ambitous a project to develop a complete calculator in hardware and software from (more or less) the scratch. QONOS did not happen, and the other public endevour will also fail, essentially not making any progress fro quite a while.

Look at the PC side. There are at lost of very succesful amateur software projects (Linux, BSD, MInix etc), but no successful hardware project. Remember "FreeCPU"?

                                          
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #13 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 15 Nov 2007, 2:48 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by thyl

Dead on there...

The virtual world of software is so much easier to be productive in. NO middle man! You, the compiler and the world.

If you have the knowhow, the time and enough access to a computer you are on. Hell you can give up your daytime job and live on wellfare as long as your laptop is paid for...

Problem, we (ok I) want the hp-41++, and above process aint gonna deliver (that).

                                          
Re: Phoenix 45s: Software Architecture
Message #14 Posted by Arne Halvorsen (Norway) on 15 Nov 2007, 2:52 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by thyl

Cool, I did not know of the Qonos project... spotted the problem right away: support for the TI-89! ththth


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