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HP Forum Archive 17

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uWatch Keypad
Message #1 Posted by DaveJ on 21 Oct 2007, 4:14 a.m.

My current watch keypad looks like this:

But after using it for a while I'm doubting my (Voyager/Pioneer/48 style) placement of the operator keys on the left, it was a bit of a gamble on my part I thought. So I've come up with the following new layout:

Yes, it's more Casio-like.

I could swap the operator keys to the right, as per the Voyager/Pioneer/48, but for some reason I really like having the ENTER/= key in the bottom right and the cancel key in the top right. So I'm kinda fixated on that. The MODE and RCL/STO key also need to stay put.

I'm interested in other people's opinions and what they would do with such a limited layout...

Dave.

      
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #2 Posted by Jonathan Eisch on 21 Oct 2007, 5:30 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by DaveJ

I like your original layout much better! I'm much more used to the -+*/ being in a line. With the second layout, my eyes don't know where to look to find the rest, if that describes it.

I'd like having swap and roll near clear and enter. I also like menu near enter, to give my finger a "home base" so to speak.

Is there some reason that you don't like the operators on the left?

-Jonathan

            
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #3 Posted by DaveJ on 21 Oct 2007, 6:39 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Jonathan Eisch

Quote:
I like your original layout much better! I'm much more used to the -+*/ being in a line. With the second layout, my eyes don't know where to look to find the rest, if that describes it.

I'd like having swap and roll near clear and enter. I also like menu near enter, to give my finger a "home base" so to speak.

Is there some reason that you don't like the operators on the left?


I've been using it for a few weeks now and somehow it just doesn't feel right. That's probably because all of my calculators (Casio's Pioneer, 48, 28) all have the operators on the right.

But I just know that if I put them in a column on the right, the ENTER/= and CLEAR placement will bug me. Like this one maybe:

I don't think ENTER/= can go in top left as it's slightly more difficult to access the top row of buttons due to the lcd, and I've never liked that placement anyway.

I just love having ENTER/= in the bottom right.

Dave.

                  
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #4 Posted by Jonathan Eisch on 21 Oct 2007, 2:50 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by DaveJ

Well, at least someone has wanted enter in the bottom right, and the operators on the right also; looking at the number pad on my keyboard. Why not do that? Sounds good to me.

So, the right two columns would be:

| / || * |
| c || - |
| e || + |
     |ENT|
                  
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #5 Posted by Pavneet Arora on 21 Oct 2007, 10:49 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by DaveJ

Personally, I would like the operators and the ENTER key as well as CLS near to each other and both on the left.

I have mocked up the keys in different sans serif typefaces using just OpenOffice Calc and have the PDF available at

uWatch_Keypad_Fonts

for review by the forum members. I haven't done anything too fancy with the key for `x <> y', but I have changed the hyphen in your `+/-' to an n-dash. Also, the function keys are set in italics, except for Eras which already is a slanted font. The document is set in 8 point type so should give some fair indication of what the key labels might look like. I would like the uWatch to go out with something other than Arial ;).

For those who may be interested, upon my return from HHC2007, I wrote two articles using the 35s as a starting point, and sent them off to HP:

Typography of Documentation

Typography of Keys

I do believe that there is an opportunity here to reconsider and standardize on typeface, nomenclature, as well as user manual layout.

Cheers.

FWIW, my vote goes for standardizing on Stone Humanist ITC Std Semi! For more on Sumner Stone, you can check out:

www.stonetypefoundry.com

Edited: 21 Oct 2007, 11:11 p.m.

      
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #6 Posted by Robert Graulich on 21 Oct 2007, 8:57 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by DaveJ

Hi Dave,

May I suggest to remove F1-F6 from the faceplate? They just clutter it up. And the benefit of having them is low for the kind of people using this watch. Perhaps you change the color of the rectangle around the keys to make them special?

More important, will the keyboard have a 'user' mode?

Regards, Robert

            
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #7 Posted by DaveJ on 21 Oct 2007, 9:08 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Robert Graulich

Quote:
May I suggest to remove F1-F6 from the faceplate? They just clutter it up. And the benefit of having them is low for the kind of people using this watch. Perhaps you change the color of the rectangle around the keys to make them special?

There is no coloured rectangle around the keys. The image shown is from my CAD file, and the rectangle is the actual cutout for the button.

It's true that F1-F6 don't need to be there for normal operation, as the keys physically map to the menu items. But I added them so that it's possible to have long menu names if need, where the menu items won't physically map to the keys below. For example: "F1=Option 1 Text" "F2=Option 2 Text" Could be useful for future software options.

Quote:
More important, will the keyboard have a 'user' mode?

What do you mean by "user" mode?

Dave.

                  
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #8 Posted by Robert Graulich on 21 Oct 2007, 9:26 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by DaveJ

Quote:
What do you mean by "user" mode?

Well, I thought about HP-41 "user" mode. I agree that there are not many keys to re-map. But you never know. This of course opens the question about "real" programming like a 41. Not just macro recording as shown in the video.

With a "user" mode, there is no need for F1-F6. You could just write "8:Option 2 Text" instead of "F2=Option 2 Text". This saves a character on the small display, too.

Another thought: Instead of "(ROLL" and ")" we could have "( UP" and ") DOWN", where UP and DOWN are arrows. They can represent ROLL UP and ROLL DOWN, if the stack is active. In MENU mode, they could operate like the UP and DOWN arrows on the 42. There would be a lot of use for them.

Robert

                        
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #9 Posted by DaveJ on 21 Oct 2007, 9:59 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Robert Graulich

Quote:
Well, I thought about HP-41 "user" mode. I agree that there are not many keys to re-map. But you never know. This of course opens the question about "real" programming like a 41. Not just macro recording as shown in the video.

I don't think I'll be adding "real" programming any time soon. Makes the firmware a *lot* more complicated, and it's probably not warranted in a calculator watch.

But I fully expect someone will be keen enough to write their own firmware to do just that (and many other things). Other OS's like Free42 or *Fix could even be ported if there is sufficient hardware capability.

I plan on providing a small "software toolkit" to make this easier. Stuff like the LCD driver, EEPROM read/write routines, key scan routines etc.

Quote:
Another thought: Instead of "(ROLL" and ")" we could have "( UP" and ") DOWN", where UP and DOWN are arrows. They can represent ROLL UP and ROLL DOWN, if the stack is active. In MENU mode, they could operate like the UP and DOWN arrows on the 42. There would be a lot of use for them.

Yes, I was originally going to include up/down arrow key, but didn't see an immediate need for the them so didn't add them. But your idea to combine it with the roll down key is a good one. Doesn't cost anything, and it might be useful in the future.

Thanks. Dave.

                  
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #10 Posted by Jonathan Eisch on 21 Oct 2007, 2:46 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by DaveJ

Quote:
What do you mean by "user" mode?

well, I'd much rather have "y^x" than ")".

-Jonathan

                  
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #11 Posted by Walter B on 21 Oct 2007, 4:52 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by DaveJ

Dave,

may I propose to map F1-F6 to 1-6? Then there will be no need to print any extra labels on the faceplate.

There may be more suggestions for other parts of your keypad but I'll need some more time to think about it. If I understand you correctly, then only the positions of MODE and STO/RCL are fixed.

Regards,

Walter

                        
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #12 Posted by DaveJ on 21 Oct 2007, 5:45 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Walter B

Quote:
may I propose to map F1-F6 to 1-6? Then there will be no need to print any extra labels on the faceplate.

Sounds reasonable. I assume you'd still like to keep the physical mapping though? e.g. Menu functions "Func1 Func2 Func3" "Func4 Func5 Func6" map to keys "4 5 6" "1 2 3"

Quote:
There may be more suggestions for other parts of your keypad but I'll need some more time to think about it. If I understand you correctly, then only the positions of MODE and STO/RCL are fixed.

Well, technically nothing is fixed, I can map any key to anywhere with only a single line of firmware. But the MODE button is important because it's the main button which you don't want to accidentally press. So makes sense to leave that.

Dave.

                              
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #13 Posted by Walter B on 21 Oct 2007, 6:35 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by DaveJ

For sake of clarity: my proposal is to map F1 to 1, F2 to 2, etc. until F6 to 6.

                                    
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #14 Posted by DaveJ on 21 Oct 2007, 8:05 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Walter B

Quote:
For sake of clarity: my proposal is to map F1 to 1, F2 to 2, etc. until F6 to 6.

In that case the soft menu prompts no longer physically map to the function keys below, which would be very confusing. This is not a good thing as my menus don't have label prompts like "1:1/X 2:X^2 3:SQRT" instead they are simply "1/X X^2 SQRT"

To add labels would mean adding more menus you have to cycle through to get to your desired function.

Dave.

                                          
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #15 Posted by Robert Graulich on 22 Oct 2007, 3:49 a.m.,
in response to message #14 by DaveJ

Dave,

just keep it simple. If the menu has no labels, use the keys that are physically arranged below it, which you have labeled F1-F6.

If the menu entries got labels due to some program, the user knows, which key he has to press, because he made the decision.

Robert

      
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #16 Posted by Mike T. on 22 Oct 2007, 6:05 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by DaveJ

Which wrist do you wear your watch on?

Yes I know outside of left wrist is 'normal' but long ago I started to wear my watch (when I still had one) on the inside of my right wrist. I know that this is a bit odd but it stopped me smashing the watch against the nearest hard surface - and gave me an excuse if I ever threw coffee over anyone (oops I was just looking at my watch...)

Intuitively in this position or with the 'watch' in front of me the left hand side seems right for the main operators as per your original layout - however when worn on the left wrist I agree that the operators feel more normal when placed on the right. (I tried the different positions out by holding a voyager against each wrist and operating it my free index finger).

I like some other readers I might also find not having the operator keys to be in a line (column) a little different however keeping them in a line gives obvious problems with the position of the enter key, so for what is is worth I think you have come up with a very good compromise given the limited space available.

Mike T.

            
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #17 Posted by DaveJ on 22 Oct 2007, 6:17 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Mike T.

Quote:
Which wrist do you wear your watch on?

Yes I know outside of left wrist is 'normal' but long ago I started to wear my watch (when I still had one) on the inside of my right wrist. I know that this is a bit odd but it stopped me smashing the watch against the nearest hard surface - and gave me an excuse if I ever threw coffee over anyone (oops I was just looking at my watch...)


I'm an outside left wrist man, anything else feels super freaky.

Even on the outside I have no problem when wearing a watch through say a canyon with lots of hard cliff faces and other objects to bang and scrape against. Never seems to be a problem. Then again, I don't wear a Rolex through a canyon.

I know an inside left man. And he's got a solar powered job and complains that it never gets enough charge. Weirdo! :->

Dave.

      
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #18 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 24 Oct 2007, 11:48 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by DaveJ

1. The keypad nees a y^x key - or at least a power function in the menu. Is a Shift Key feasible - given the limited amount of keys.

2. I'm used to having the operators to the right, but your original keyboard is like the 41 series. I'd prefer the second only because I am used to having the operators on the right.

The STO/RCL key: how does that work? How many memories does the watch have? Finally, do you plan on putting an "if-then-else" function for comparisons?

            
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #19 Posted by DaveJ on 25 Oct 2007, 1:33 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Eddie W. Shore

Quote:
1. The keypad nees a y^x key - or at least a power function in the menu. Is a Shift Key feasible - given the limited amount of keys.

You must have missed the previous discussions on this. The watch has a "rolling menu key" system to map the other functions onto the keys. No need for a shift key. I just happen to have a video of how this works:

Menu Video

Yes, there is a Y^X function.

Quote:
The STO/RCL key: how does that work? How many memories does the watch have?

Press once and you get the recall menu which prompts for memory register 0-9, you then press the appropriate number key. So only two key presses to recall any one of the 10 registers.

Press the key twice in a row takes you into the Store menu which works the same as the recall menu. So 3 key presses to store a value into any of the 10 registers.

The watch only has 10 constant memory registers, but that's a purely arbitrary limit, I could give it several thousand if I wanted.

Quote:
Finally, do you plan on putting an "if-then-else" function for comparisons?

No plan to do that yet.

Dave.

      
Re: uWatch Keypad
Message #20 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 24 Oct 2007, 11:48 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by DaveJ

1. The keypad needs a y^x key - or at least a power function in the menu. Is a Shift Key feasible - given the limited amount of keys.

2. I'm used to having the operators to the right, but your original keyboard is like the 41 series. I'd prefer the second only because I am used to having the operators on the right.

The STO/RCL key: how does that work? How many memories does the watch have? Finally, do you plan on putting an "if-then-else" function for comparisons?


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