The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 17

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #2 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 7 Oct 2007, 9:39 a.m.,in response to message #1 by DavidB Welcome David, Hopefully you will be with us for a long time. The cover of the 35s is the best one ever. However, you are right about the STO key. Also, the Polar/Rectangular conversions we have to perform ourselves. Overall, I am impressed. All of the attendents received a 35s (Thank you HP!), and since I have one, one of my goals is to make someone else the 2nd person at the Cal Poly Pomona campus to have one. (I'm sure I am the first).

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #3 Posted by Walter B on 7 Oct 2007, 12:02 p.m.,in response to message #2 by Eddie W. Shore Hi, Eddie, Quote:The cover of the 35s is the best one ever. What do you mean by "cover" here?

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #4 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 7 Oct 2007, 12:17 p.m.,in response to message #3 by Walter B The hard cover that is on the calculator case.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #5 Posted by DavidB on 7 Oct 2007, 1:50 p.m.,in response to message #2 by Eddie W. Shore Hi Eddie, I'm sure whoever will get your 35s will greatly appreciate it. On the 35s, HP placed the Polar <==> Rectangular conversion functions within the DISPLAY menu. On the 32sII, the conversion functions are placed over the numerical 4 key. I find the Polar/Rect conversions on the 35s are just as easy as on the 32sII. On the 35s, if I want to convert polar coordinates (25 degree, 15) to rectangular (x,y), press the following keys: 15 right-shift (blue) key Theta 25 left-shift (yellow) key DISPLAY xiy (selection 9) ENTER may be required depending on how you select in the menu The (x,y) coordinate is (13.5946, i6.3393) in degree MODE. The conversion on the 32sII is similar except there is no menu to use. I like the way complex numbers are shown on the 35s. I have to use the X exchange Y key on the 32sII to see the imaginary part. Clarification: By reflections of the LCD screen on the 35s, I mean the glossy look of the screen. Placed at certain angles, the 35s screen is overwhelmed by the light source, hence, obscuring my view of the display information. The LCD screen of the 32sII is not glossy and does not reflect as much light into your eyes; yet, the information is just as viewable as on the 35s. Cheers, David Bailey Edited: 7 Oct 2007, 1:58 p.m.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #6 Posted by DavidB on 7 Oct 2007, 2:12 p.m.,in response to message #1 by DavidB I am curious. In addition to the 35s, what other hand-held RPN scientific calculator does not have a separate STO (or RCL) key? David Bailey Edited: 7 Oct 2007, 2:14 p.m.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #7 Posted by Allen on 7 Oct 2007, 2:37 p.m.,in response to message #6 by DavidB The third generation 28c, 28s, 48/49/50 series. Also a number of algebraic: 8s, 10s,10b, 10bii,

 Models lacking unshifted STO and RCLMessage #8 Posted by Karl Schneider on 7 Oct 2007, 2:55 p.m.,in response to message #7 by Allen Q: I am curious. In addition to the 35s, what other hand-held RPN scientific calculator does not have a separate STO (or RCL) key? A: The third generation 28c, 28s, 48/49/50 series. Ah, but RCL is shifted in the RPL-based models, while STO is shifted on the HP-35s. Why is that? Answer: RCL is often unnecessary in RPL, as ENTER or other operation will recall a named variable. In RPN, STO need be used only once for storing a given value to a register, while RCL might be used many times. -- KS

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #9 Posted by DavidB on 7 Oct 2007, 4:12 p.m.,in response to message #7 by Allen Hi Allen and KS! Thanks for your response. I am curious, though, about non-RPL, non-graphing HP calculators. Is the 35s perhaps the first RPN without a dedicated STO (or RCL) key? Cheers! David Bailey Quote: The third generation 28c, 28s, 48/49/50 series. Also a number of algebraic: 8s, 10s,10b, 10bii, Edited: 7 Oct 2007, 4:14 p.m.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #10 Posted by Walter B on 7 Oct 2007, 4:44 p.m.,in response to message #9 by DavidB Hi David, Quote: Is the 35s perhaps the first RPN without a dedicated STO (or RCL) key? As far as I see it is the first RPN scientific with less than 2 keys for STO/RCL. It is also the first RPN scientific with a shifted STO. For financial calcs, other members are more competent. Enjoy, Walter

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #11 Posted by DaveJ on 7 Oct 2007, 6:39 p.m.,in response to message #10 by Walter B Quote: Hi David, As far as I see it is the first RPN scientific with less than 2 keys for STO/RCL. It is also the first RPN scientific with a shifted STO. For financial calcs, other members are more competent. Enjoy, Walter Mine has a "shifted" STO key. Given that there is no shift key, you simply press the button a 2nd time to access STO. Works very well indeed, and I think it's actually more intuitive than a shift key anyway. Dave.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #12 Posted by DavidB on 7 Oct 2007, 7:14 p.m.,in response to message #11 by DaveJ Nice watch calculator prototype! Will this make it to market? David Bailey

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #13 Posted by DaveJ on 7 Oct 2007, 8:03 p.m.,in response to message #12 by DavidB Quote: Nice watch calculator prototype! Will this make it to market? In some way, shape or form, yes. Can you solder? Dave.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #14 Posted by DavidB on 7 Oct 2007, 11:57 p.m.,in response to message #13 by DaveJ LOL. No. I gave up soldering in 1990. David Bailey Quote: In some way, shape or form, yes. Can you solder? Dave.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #15 Posted by megarat on 8 Oct 2007, 7:13 p.m.,in response to message #13 by DaveJ I can solder, and I think your watch looks awesome. Any details?

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #16 Posted by DaveJ on 8 Oct 2007, 8:02 p.m.,in response to message #15 by megarat Quote: I can solder, and I think your watch looks awesome. Any details? I don't want to give away major details just yet, but I'm fairly certain I'll make a kit available, perhaps partially assembled, and maybe even fully assembled (but that would cost a lot more). Also, full design details will eventually be released. So the watch you see there will be available for those who are keen enough to own one. More news in the coming months. Dave.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #17 Posted by Meenzer on 9 Oct 2007, 7:02 a.m.,in response to message #16 by DaveJ For all the geeks who can't solder, but desperately need a watch with a calculator -um- slide rule ...

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #18 Posted by Les Bell on 9 Oct 2007, 8:03 a.m.,in response to message #17 by Meenzer And the batteries - for the whiz-wheel - never go flat. I wear one of these, but the trouble is that after a certain age, the slide rule is too small to read. . . . :-( Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #19 Posted by Karl Schneider on 7 Oct 2007, 2:39 p.m.,in response to message #1 by DavidB Welcome, David -- I'll echo Eddie's greetings. You've made a few accurate and widely-accepted observations about the HP-35s. I share most of your sentiments. The shifted STO key is indeed a small annoyance -- a compromise driven by the limited supply of 43 keys, as four were dedicated to moving the cursor, one to "i", one to "EQN", and one to "( )". The speed issue has been discussed -- the HP-35s is indeed a bit slower than its predecessors HP-33s and HP-32SII. The HP-35s uses the same CR2032 3V "wafer" cells as the HP-33s, which experienced abysmal cell life. It's possible that some changes were made to remedy the problem. The faster numerical integration you observed is probably due to the problem chosen and the accuracy you selected. The HP-35s methods are the same as those of the HP-33s, which differ slightly from those of the HP-32SII, even though the syntax is exactly the same. Here's more than you may have wanted to know about numerical integration in HP's RPN calculators: Best regards, -- KS

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #20 Posted by DavidB on 7 Oct 2007, 3:29 p.m.,in response to message #19 by Karl Schneider KS, Thanks for the information. I wonder what the clock speed is of the 8502 processor in the 35s. The 33s uses a Sunplus SPLB31A running at 5Mhz, according to http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv014.cgi?read=63140 As others have discussed on this forum, the HP 35s overall keyboard layout design approach seems to focus more on programmability functions than on direct input/output calculation. Maybe (just maybe) the 35s will encourage me to start programming it. I only recall programming the 15C many years ago, but not on any other HP calculator. The 35s is my first calculator that uses the 3-volt lithium coin batteries. Perhaps an OLED display will someday enhance battery life (and display clarity) for HP calculators? David Bailey Edited: 7 Oct 2007, 3:36 p.m.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #21 Posted by DaveJ on 7 Oct 2007, 6:42 p.m.,in response to message #20 by DavidB Quote: KS, Thanks for the information. I wonder what the clock speed is of the 8502 processor in the 35s. The 33s uses a Sunplus SPLB31A running at 5Mhz, according to http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv014.cgi?read=63140 As others have discussed on this forum, the HP 35s overall keyboard layout design approach seems to focus more on programmability functions than on direct input/output calculation. Maybe (just maybe) the 35s will encourage me to start programming it. I only recall programming the 15C many years ago, but not on any other HP calculator. The 35s is my first calculator that uses the 3-volt lithium coin batteries. Perhaps an OLED display will someday enhance battery life (and display clarity) for HP calculators? I can't see how OLED will ever match LCD for low power consumption. Dave.

 Re: First Impression of HP 35sMessage #22 Posted by vq on 7 Oct 2007, 2:41 p.m.,in response to message #1 by DavidB I bought HP35S a month ago, more or less for its nice retro look and improved memory usage (compared to HP33S which I used until now). From my point of view (civil engineering, bridge design practice), the pros and cons of this calc are as follows:. Keyboard Nice retro shape, good key response. Bad positioning of some frequently used commands to shifted keys and vice versa: - STO, x^2 used very often but placed on shifted keys - GTO, "i" seldom used, these could be on a shifted position (well, "i" is possibly more used in electrical calculations? - then the position is fine) - R/S quite frequently used, much more than EQN; R/S should be closer to the numeric keys block, possibly at EQN position? Display Quality is good, appears the same as on my HP33S (#CNA 51500563) which was described as very bad by some people here (probably older models than mine 33s). Totally wrong behaviour when showing "ALL" with Exx part of the number out of display - HP33S works slightly better here. Memory usage is much better, only now the 30 kB RAM can be really used (much better than HP33s). However, while the access to the variables 1-~800 by indirect addressing is fine when programming, it is very slow when used in hand calculations. I would like additional set of RCL() and STO() keys which would ask for the adress rather than for the label. This way, the sequence "123 STO I RCL (I)" could be replaced by much shorter "RCL() 123" (or, maybe better "123 RCL()"). Also, the nice possibility of addressing label AND line number slows down normal hand calculations - one HAS to run program A001 with XEQ A and ENTER which is annoying. On other calculators (e.g. the old TI59, the superb old SHARP PC-1211 very well described in http://membres.lycos.fr/albillo/calc/pdf/DatafileVA027.pdf, CASIO FX-602P etc.) one could define a function and run it just by pressing a function key (one keypress); on HP33s, it's XEQ A (two keys), which is still fine; on HP35S, three keys are too many. This may seem to be a negligible issue, but when running a (trivial) program many times, it's not pleasant at all. Minor flaw: Pressing just E3* results in "Syntax error" while on 33S it was OK. Now one has to (remember to) enter 1E3*. Overall, HP35S is really a nice piece of hardware - a "must have" for many users. However, as most complex and programmed calculations are done on a PC now, the calc should be designed with more priority for quick hand calculations. VQ, Prague, Czech Republic