The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 14

 Palm KK-12C Updated for 320x480 (T3 etc)Message #1 Posted by Patrick on 7 Dec 2003, 10:52 p.m. KK Technologies has released an update for their HP-12C simulator, the KK-12C. The update now allows you to see the entire 12C keyboard on devices which display 320x480, like the Palm Tungsten|T3. Very cool. Unfortunately, there's no 15C equivalent for Palm :-(

 Re: Palm KK-12C Updated for 320x480 (T3 etc)Message #2 Posted by hugh steers on 8 Dec 2003, 9:44 a.m.,in response to message #1 by Patrick neat. i like the lanscape mode. at last you can fit the whole keyboard on screen. its a bit silly when you cant do this. however, it doesnt get the right answers. compared to the 12c. consider the tvm problem proposed by william kahan, n = 31536000 = 60*60*24*365 i = 10%/N pv = 0 pmt = -0.01 fv = ? fv = 331,667.0067 but not here (331,667.0132).

 Re: Palm KK-12C Updated for 320x480 (T3 etc)Message #3 Posted by Patrick on 9 Dec 2003, 2:30 a.m.,in response to message #2 by hugh steers Interesting. I just wish I were rich enough that this would make a difference to me. Edited: 9 Dec 2003, 2:30 a.m.

 Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #4 Posted by Vincent Weber on 9 Dec 2003, 9:28 p.m.,in response to message #2 by hugh steers Lygea' wonderful simulator for pocketPC (Pocket12C) gives the correct answer in no time :) The simulator is beautifully painted, features the (useless, IMHO) ALG mode, but also a normal distribution function (which allows you to implement the black shole equation - this is given in the example). It patches major drawbacks of the 12C, such as inserting/deleting steps and alphanumeric display of them (I always thought that the 12C's programming features were quite useless if you have to branch to another part of the program space just to insert new steps...) Lygea also has a wonderful 15C simulator, which behaves exactly like the 15C, except that it has more memory, light speed, and that the program steps can be viewed in alphanumeric mode. A pure delight... So, for Voyagers, I would definitely recommand PocketPC over Palm. KK-12C is a nice program, but seems to have computation mistakes, and does not have alphanumeric display of steps. On the positive side, it allows loading of programs from a PC. But you could also exchange/beam the status file of Pocket12C... However, if you want to emulate the 16C, there is only one choice: Palm16C for Palm. Not fantastic, but does the job. Lygea told me that there are working on a Pocket16C, which would be a great thing to have. If you want to emulate the 48, there are no questions: Power48 for Palm is a wonderful program, fast and accurate, with realistic appearence. You will need at least a high-res 320x320 Palm, but it is much better to have a high-res+ (320x480) Palm - best choices should be the amazing new Sony Clie UX50 or the Palm Tungsten T3 (the program has just been updated to version 1.4 to support these devices). In comparison, Emu48CE 1.23f for PocketPC is an horrible piece of software - buggy, hugly, and slow. If you want to emulate the 41 (which is my favourite by far - a stunning machine !) the choice is tough: ev41 for PocketPC has a realistic appearance, which I love very much, allows you to run any ROM, but is quite slow (about the original speed) and does have some display problems sometimes (the 'flying goose' is not moving when running programs, for instance); P41CX for Palm is a much better written program, fast, accurate, with 2-line display and printer emulation, hot-swap of ROM modules, graffiti recognition... but it does not have a reastic appearance, does not allow you to load ROMs besides the ones supported (I miss the AEC ROM, especially). I am using both programs :) The choice depends on what you need. The big, big lack in emulation for PDAs is the Pionners: especially the 42S, 32SII and 17BII models would be great to have. I would really pay for a pionner emulator on PDAs... As a summary... there is unfortunately not one single device to emulate everything. I personnaly use 3 PDAs: - A Palm m500 for a light, long battery life HP-41CX, - A Sony Clie NX80 for a full-blown HP48, - A HP Ipaq 1940 for Lygea 12C and 15C simulators, as well as for ev41. But I am a bit of a geek, I do admit it :) Cheers, Vincent

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #5 Posted by Veli-Pekka Nousiainen on 9 Dec 2003, 9:58 p.m.,in response to message #4 by Vincent Weber Could you kindly include direct URL's to those programs? [VPN]

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #6 Posted by Vincent Weber on 9 Dec 2003, 10:24 p.m.,in response to message #5 by Veli-Pekka Nousiainen Lygea: http://www.lygea.com (Pocket12C & 15C) Power48: http://power48.mobilevoodoo.com Emu48CE: http://web.jet.es/leobueno/emu48.htm P41CX: http://www.palmgear.com (search for P41CX) ev41: I can't quote it here... search for it on Google... :) KK-12C: http://www.kktechnologies.com/kk-12c.html Palm16C: Again available on Palmgear Cheers, Vincent

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #7 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 10 Dec 2003, 6:29 a.m.,in response to message #6 by Vincent Weber ev41: I can't quote it here... search for it on Google... :) I am wondering why it is not possible to make any reference from this site to Warren's site? Could someone explain this?

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #8 Posted by Wayne Brown on 10 Dec 2003, 7:46 a.m.,in response to message #7 by HrastProgrammer Quote:I am wondering why it is not possible to make any reference from this site to Warren's site? Could someone explain this? Warren and someone else (I don't know who) had a dispute that (apparently) involved threats of legal action. Dave was unable to find a way to address the issue here on the Forum that would satisfy both parties. So he chose to stay out of the issue altogether by not discussing it here and by not allowing any link to Warren's site from this site.

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #9 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 10 Dec 2003, 1:43 a.m.,in response to message #4 by Vincent Weber The big, big lack in emulation for PDAs is the Pionners: especially the 42S, 32SII and 17BII models would be great to have. I would really pay for a pionner emulator on PDAs... As far as I know, all my emulators (HP-41X, HP-42X and HP-71X) are working under Power48 so HP-42X is the only true HP-42S emulator which will (indirectly) work on Palm. Best regards.

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #10 Posted by Vincent Weber on 10 Dec 2003, 3:07 a.m.,in response to message #9 by HrastProgrammer I actually thought that your emulator: 1) Was not sold anymore on your web site, 2) Required port 2 emulation, which is unfortunately not a feature of Power48 (it will come only in version 2.0). If you could clarify the above, I would be most interested :) Cheers, Vincent

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #11 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 10 Dec 2003, 3:15 a.m.,in response to message #10 by Vincent Weber I actually thought that your emulator: 1) Was not sold anymore on your web site, 2) Required port 2 emulation, which is unfortunately not a feature of Power48 (it will come only in version 2.0). It was unavailable for some time for some reasons :-( But it is available again ... There are EASY (HP-42S with 32K) and LITE (HP-42S with 96K) versions which can work with only one 128K RAM card (either in Slot 1 or 2). More info on http://hrastprogrammer.tripod.com and http://hrastprogrammer.tripod.com/HP42X. If you need additional information you can contact me in private via the link on my homepage ... Best regards.

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #12 Posted by Vincent Weber on 10 Dec 2003, 4:02 a.m.,in response to message #11 by HrastProgrammer I have tried... and it is telling me 'failure - cannot send email' :) Could you please send me demo versions of both HP42X and HP71X for me to try it first on my Clie NX80C/G with Powe48? If it is fine it will strongly consider buying. Thanks a lot, best regards, Vincent

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #13 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 10 Dec 2003, 4:47 a.m.,in response to message #12 by Vincent Weber Ah, that tripod issue :-( It seems that the server is out ... I will send you a mail.

 RatsMessage #14 Posted by Patrick on 10 Dec 2003, 1:48 a.m.,in response to message #4 by Vincent Weber Yes, from the sounds of it, Lygea's simulators are pretty nice. Unfortunately, they run on PPC, which I just cannot stomach (personal opinion -- not intended to start a debate). If Lygea's 16C is really nice, I might just have to hold my nose and buy an old PPC machine on eBay just to run them. I, too, am quite a geek. Especially when it comes to my favourite tiny computers.

 Actually, the P41CX looks great on PalmMessage #15 Posted by Gene on 10 Dec 2003, 7:32 a.m.,in response to message #4 by Vincent Weber There are 2 options, one for hi-res (320x320) the other for standard (160x160). The hi-res option (sony clie for example) looks JUST like a 41CX! Best \$10 I ever spent. the only thing I have found is the display character for 1 XTOA does not look like the "little man" as it does on the real 41c. Makes Wickes' hangman program not look as nice. :-( Power48 is fairly slow on my SJ30 Clie. Wish it ran faster...guess I'll have to buy a faster palm!

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #16 Posted by David on 13 Dec 2003, 7:54 a.m.,in response to message #4 by Vincent Weber Just a quick note: I've had correspondance with Lygea and they are working on a HP16c simulator. Hopefully it will be out first part of 2004.

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #17 Posted by David on 13 Dec 2003, 8:10 a.m.,in response to message #4 by Vincent Weber Vincent Actually it is possible to other ROM modules with Charles Lee's p41. Normally I wouldn't mention this because it involves hacking Charles' programs--but since he has release the source code to Warren's site... With a PC and Hex editor you can alter the table of ROM names in the ROM manager program and substitue the ROM you want. Then with the hex editor grab the header off a similar sized ROM file and patch it onto the ROM you want to use and move that file to the Palm. The ROM manager will load it. I have been able to get most all the available ROM files to load including a test ROM of my own code. There are a few ROMs which will crash things, notably the HEPAX. This is because the emulator doesn't support RAM in ROM space and I believe only banks 1 and 2 for paging. What I really like about p41 is its ability to "print" to a notepad file. I really wish that Frank's v41 version for the PocketPC did this on my Axim.

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #18 Posted by Gene on 13 Dec 2003, 9:50 a.m.,in response to message #17 by David Any way we could get you to consider placing your hacked programs with these ROMS somewhere? Would be nice to have some other ROMS available, as there are several in his list that I just won't ever use. Well, thought I'd ask. :-) Gene

 Re: Emulators/simulators for PDAsMessage #19 Posted by Vincent Weber on 14 Dec 2003, 3:12 a.m.,in response to message #17 by David Hi David, Thanks for the info. Actually I am in contact with Charles Lee (P41CX's author) and recently I gently added support for AEC ROM for me. He said that eventually he will had the possibility for the user to add any ROM he likes, but that he has no time now. Frank's V41 allows you more flexibility at the expense of the impressive "hot-swap" behaviour of P41CX. P41CX is overall a better program (faster, with printer emulation, graffiti support, and 2-line display), but I still like V41's realistic appearance... Cheeers, Vincent