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41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #1 Posted by Joe Edwards on 11 Feb 2003, 12:35 a.m.

Hey guys, I am looking at picking up some modules for my new 41cx. I am a math major and want to pick up whatever will help me out (and max out this little baby as well) in the future. I tried getting detailed info on the PPC and Advantage module, as well as the math module. Also, does the CX need a extended memory module? Any info on these modules would be appreicated. Thanks in advance.


Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #2 Posted by Karl Schneider on 11 Feb 2003, 1:20 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards

Joe --

The Advantage Pac is probably the best one released by HP. It has the solver and numerical integration as functions, rather than RPN routines, so they run faster and are more robust. These functions are the sophisticted ones implemented originally in the HP-34C and 15C.

The Advantage module also has a large library of matrix functions, but is not as friendly as those in the 15C and 42S.

Also: integer base converion and logical operations, complex-number operations (from the Math module), roots, curve fitting, and the financial Time Value of Money (TVM) equation, among other features.

Every well-equipped 41 should have the Advantage module, but you'll need the manual or a scan (available at MoHPC). Expect to pay > $40 on eBay for a complete Pac.

If you get an Advantage module, you don't really need a Math Pac, which has the same complex-number operations, a lesser set of matrix operations, and crude RPN-based routines for the solver and integration (Simpson's Rule). It does offer a Fourier-analysis routine, hyperbolics, and triangle solutions not present in the Advantage module.

The Math module contents are also available in a Math/Stat module, which combines both the Math and Stat packages in one.

The 41CX has extended functions built in, so you don't need an X-functions module. You *could* utilize X-Memory modules (NOT ordinary Memory modules) for extra extended memory.

If you are eager to add functionality right away, I could sell you a complete Math Pac for $15 shipped (US). This is about the going rate, and they are as common as dirt.

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #3 Posted by Math Geek on 11 Feb 2003, 1:35 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Karl Schneider

The advantage pac is indeed quite powerful and no well-equipped 41 should be seen in public without it.

I forgot about memory in the x-functions module -- thanks for pointing out my stupidity ;)

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #4 Posted by Math Geek on 11 Feb 2003, 1:30 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards

C is the basic unit. Minimum memory, NO time functions or other goodies, YES memory module works.

CV has more memory than a C, less than CX, YES memory modules work, NO time functions or other goodies.

CX has max registers already, YES time functions plus other goodies, memory module has no effect.

Advantage modules are available (I have one, no you can't have it, and please don't even ask or I'll be morally and ethically required to hurt you -- badly!) and I don't know its current availability or pricing. It does have many good features:

>> Matrix math (selectable matrix sizes pretty much limited only by how many registers are free, matrix multiply, matrix divide, matrix +, matrix determinant) >>HEX/BIN/OCT/DEC conversion functions >>Binary math (XOR, AND, OR, NOT, etc.) >>SOLVE (Newtonian method used in 15C) >>INTEG (integration) >>Complex number operations (LNz, e^z, z^1/N, SINz, COSz) >>Differential equation processing >>Curve fitting (linear, power functions) >>Vector operations (cross product, dot product, vector math) >>TVM -- time value of money

PPC module is the best that the user-community-braintrust could come up with -- and I mean that as a compliment! Among its many toys is "synthetic programming" utilities. Synthetic programming is a way of "combining" two data bytes/numbers into a single non-standard (meaning you can't normally enter it by a single keystroke) command. Without the PPC, the only way to put prep the calculator for synthetic programming is an arcane set of keystrokes that bypass normal system boundaries, and the setup goes away if you dump the memory and you haven't created a magnetic card with all synthetic programs. Also, some synthetic programming functions are lengthy and take up memory, so the PPC module is nice to have (no I don't have one, dammit!). Some examples of the fun and games of synthetic programming:

>>Generate any one of about 100 tones, instead of just 10 (some are very cool -- ear-splitting sonic bursts that last only about .02 seconds!) >>Planting random values into the "C" register in the calculator. If ANYTHING other than the "expected" system constant is found in "C" when the calc does its "sanity check", it resets itself to factory original and may sit comatose until power is removed for sometimes up to several hours. >>Creating some very convenient register savings commands -- swapping data from the "flag conditions" register into a normal register (posiibly saving many different flag condition sets into many registers) and swapping back in to the flag conditions register to create a whole set of conditions with a single command

Hope that helped. Others in this oh-just-get-a-life community have more info, I'm sure.

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #5 Posted by Johnny Billquist on 11 Feb 2003, 12:07 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Math Geek

No. The CV cannot use memory modules. The CX is not "maxed out".

Both the CV and CX have the maximum amount of "normal" memory, and cannot use the memory modules designed for the C model.

The difference between the CV and CX in memory is that the CX have the X-FUNCTIONS module built it, which adds some more memory which is used as a ram disk. However, X-FUNCTIONS can address a lot more memory than the module itself provides, which is why there also exists the X-MEMORY modules, which all three models can use, but they *require* X-FUNCTIONS first.

So a "maxed out" 41 (in memory terms) is: 1. A C model with quad mem, X-FNCS and 2 X-MEM 2. A CV model with X-FNCS and 2 X-MEM 3. A CX model with 2 X-MEM

These three configurations are all the same from the memory perspective. Note, however, that they will use a different number of ports to reach this maximum. The C needs all four ports, the CV needs three ports, while the CX only needs two ports.

In addition, the X-MEM modules can be built in into the calculator without penalty, so on a CX you can get it really maxed out in memory without using any port.

Oh, and the TIME module is also available. If you have a CV, and add X-FUNC and TIME, you have most of the CX. The CX also have CX-FUNC and CX-TIME, which have a few extras that are not available in external modules, but apart from that, the two machines will be functionally identical.

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #6 Posted by Math Geek on 11 Feb 2003, 2:51 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Johnny Billquist

I stand corrected. My 41CV doesn't get used much lately because I don't want to burn it out. I could buy more, and even a CX or two, but I have found more use for the 28S with its infinite stack and implicit handling of matrices as stack elements. My work life rarely needs much computing power, and I am hesitant to provide any HP calc as a target for theft.

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #7 Posted by Christoph Klug on 11 Feb 2003, 3:36 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards

Today the PPC module is only from historical interest - a nice part for collectors.

Much more features adds the powerfully CCD module to the HP41 handheld computer. This includes some synthetic programming tools and remember the matrix commands from the Advantage module are taken from the CCD module.

Add one or two X-Memory modules to your HP41CX for getting maximally capacity.

Insert a IL-Module for creating a gateway to PC world : For this you need the HP-IL/PC Interface Card and the new software version of EMU41 which gives you advanced gateway and emulator features....

Best wishes from Germany - Christoph Klug

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #8 Posted by Ex-PPC member on 11 Feb 2003, 12:20 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards

The Advantage ROM is certainly one of the VERY BEST ROMs available for your HP-41CX.

Instead of being a 4K or 8K ROM like most, it packs a tremendous 12K, most of it ultra-fast machine code, not 'user code' (i.e: RPN programming). As such, it maximizes the speed while minimizing resource usage (memory registers needed, etc).

For instance, it does include 50+ powerful matrix-handling keywords, such as MSYS, which will solve a system of N linear equations in N unknowns in just *one* program step, at machine-code speed !

Further, all matrix operations can work with matrices stored directly in X-Memory, no need to copy them to normal RAM, and to that effect it creates a new type of X-files [pun intended, of course] to store matrices in X-mem.

Having the Advantage ROM available will do wonders when implementing complicated algorithms requiring matrices. For instance, you can fit a Nth degree polynominal to a set of (N+1) arbitrarily spaced datapoints (X,Y) using an extra-short, 60-step program, including label, end, full prompting, and full labeling of results ! The 'core' of the algorithm, solving the required NxN system of equations, consists of just *one* step: 47 MSYS !! Which is more, the program creates and stores all data points and ancillary matrices in X-Memory, so this 60-step program uses *no* numbered registers, and so it can run even at SIZE 000 !!

Obviously, without this ROM, such a program would take hundreds of steps, and would need many user registers (SIZE nnn). Using the Math ROM or PPC ROM instead would still result in a larger program, and would execute 10 times slower or more.

My advice: get one ! Fast !

Re: 41c/v/x PPC and Advantage modules
Message #9 Posted by David Smith on 11 Feb 2003, 6:06 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards

For the budding math geek, the Advantage module is certainly the best thing out there. Unfortunately they are very hard to come by... people that have them want to keep them. Ebay is probably your best bet... expect to pay at least $50... and then it probably won't have the manual. I have seen boxed ones sell for over $150, the manuals alone for $50. Sometimes you can find a machine for sale with one in it that will go for less than a bare module!

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