The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 10

 17Bii is Algebraic with Hierarchy? Message #1 Posted by Glen Kilpatrick on 17 Jan 2003, 1:19 p.m. I'm reading about the "calculator line" under the subheading "Algebraic (With a Stack)", and puzzling over the lines: <<<<< For example if the user pressed 1+2*3, the calculator would show that expression in display. On pressing +6, the calculator would evaluate the part that it now could and display 7+6. >>>>> This suggests to me that 17Bii's do algebraic with hierarchy (1+2*3 -> 7, what I associate with scientific calcs) rather than algebraic without (1+2*3 -> 9, what I've heretofore seen on business calcs, _e.g._ on a 10B). Might someone confirm that, and also advise about other HP Algebraic Business Calcs (are they with or without hierarchy)? Some good tests might be: 1+2*3 ---> 7 (multiply over add, this is hierarchy) 1+2*3 ---> 9 (no hierarchy here) 1+2*3^4 ---> 163 (power over multiply over add, definitely algebraic hierarchy) 1+2*3^4 ---> 6,561 (you can guess this one)

 Re: 17Bii is Algebraic with Hierarchy? Message #2 Posted by Ron Ross on 17 Jan 2003, 1:38 p.m.,in response to message #1 by Glen Kilpatrick No hierarchy, operates just like 10B. However its solver does have precidence(I believe, I do not have one to check with at moment). I believe Hp could have provide hierarchy, but chose not to so as to market and not differentiate from all the other business calculators on the market. Only the BA-II offers a choice, all other business calcs operate without hierarchy (that I know).

 Re: 17Bii is Algebraic with Hierarchy? Message #3 Posted by Glen Kilpatrick on 17 Jan 2003, 2:34 p.m.,in response to message #2 by Ron Ross So the example from MoHPC is false-to-fact? I'd suspect that no hierarchy would result in: Type See 1 1 + 1 2 2 * 3 ---> or 2 with hierarchy 3 3 + 9 ---> or 7 with hierarchy, and the MoHPC example shows 7 (that's my question) 6 6 = 15 ---> or 13 with hierarchy

 Re: 17Bii is Algebraic with Hierarchy? Message #4 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 17 Jan 2003, 3:14 p.m.,in response to message #1 by Glen Kilpatrick I have a 17BII (1D71305695) and it gives the following answers to your examples: In direct entry algebaic mode the pressing of a second operator causes an intermediate result to be displayed and the second operator then uses that result: 1+2x3=9 1+2x3^4=6,561 In the solver: 1+2x3=7 1+2*3^4=163 Operator presidence is applied as expected. I hope this helps you.

 Re: 17Bii is Algebraic with Hierarchy? Message #5 Posted by Glen Kilpatrick on 17 Jan 2003, 4:28 p.m.,in response to message #4 by Gordon Dyer Hah! NOW I understand. The 17Bii uses no hierarchy on the "command line", but standard algebraic hierarchy in the Solver.

 And one reason our university now uses the BAII PlusMessage #6 Posted by Gene on 17 Jan 2003, 4:57 p.m.,in response to message #5 by Glen Kilpatrick Rumor has it that HP is developing a new line or revisions to their financial calculators. Perhaps they will make them work like we all learned in the 3rd grade - multiplication and division FIRST. At least. The competition was betweent the HP-10B (actually, the less pleasing HP-10BII) and the TI BAII Plus. The TI won in many respects. More functionality (the thing not only does trigonometry, but hyperbolic trig too in addition to more business functions). Use of "worksheets" (these allow you to enter data and then revisit the data to correct something after the fact - the 10B has nothing like it at all...it's similar in some ways to the 17BII and 19BII's use of lists, but I think I like the worksheets better). and it can do 1+2x3 and get the correct answer without parentheses. Who would EVER have thought that an HP calculator would REQUIRE parentheses to work a problem correctly? Amazing. Gene

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