The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 08

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Copycat
Message #1 Posted by Steve on 4 June 2002, 7:16 a.m.

here

      
Re: Copycat
Message #2 Posted by Dave Hicks on 4 June 2002, 1:16 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Steve

Thanks. I've sent seller a note which asks him to make the source of the picture clear.

A few weeks ago someone else was using that picture to sell several 42s. I asked him to acknowledge that and got no response but someone else asked if that was the actual calculator being sold and the seller told them that it was.

That was suspicious, so I used ebay's copyright infringement process to get that auction removed.

            
Cracks me up!
Message #3 Posted by Mike on 4 June 2002, 8:02 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Dave Hicks

He says, might be accidently taken from the www.hpmuseum.org

How do you accidently take a photo from here? And might be. How could one not be sure

                  
LOL !
Message #4 Posted by Dave Hicks on 4 June 2002, 9:24 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Mike

This reminds me of someone who used my 12C picture on an ebay auction. I wrote to her and asked her to acknowledge the source and make sure buyers knew it wasn't the unit being auctioned.

She sent back an email expressing her great annoyance at me and said that there were just too many 12C pictures in the world for her to have to bother acknowledging the source of the old one, so she got a new one from someplace else. (No bids had been placed yet.)

I looked again and it was a different picture another one of mine!

So I wrote again and said um sorry, but that's also my picture and she claimed that it wasn't because she got it from another ebay auction so there! QED! I explained that the other auction had gotten it from me and she responded to that by deleting the picture entirely and telling me to get a life. :-)

I'm guessing the 42S guy also got his from another auction but at least he's willing to admit that it's not his.

                  
Re: Cracks me up!
Message #5 Posted by Nico on 5 June 2002, 9:38 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Mike

Dear Mike and Steve, what CRACKS ME UP is the fact that I surfed ALL OVER the internet WORLWIDE to find information about the HP42S, and that yes I do believe that I got the picture from another collector's website (Who probably STOLE this picture from yours! Better find them before they abuse it! ;-) ) Also - as Dave Hicks mentioned -I believe I saw the same picture once on an auction in Singapore. (Not e-bay) So therefore my dearest Stevie and Mikie the words 'MIGHT' and 'ACCIDENTLY'. If I would have been SURE I would have written it, but since this picture is apparently starting to live it's own life on the big internet-planet, I didn't think I got it from www.hpmuseum.org but ain't sure. If I would have known that this futility would have caused such a storm in a cup, I would have scanned my HP42s immediately... They only thing I agree with is that I should have mentioned that it wasn't the actual picture of MY HP42S, but just a picture randomly picked out of cyberspace. I hope this will help you all to struggle through your worries, and that no permanent damage is done. Sincerely, Nico PS: There is a world outside the www.hpmuseum.org ! No kidding !

                        
Re: Cracks me up!
Message #6 Posted by Thibaut.be on 5 June 2002, 9:46 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Nico

Obviously nico has forgotten to read carefully the terms of use of this forum...

                              
And this is how decent Nico responded to Thibaut!
Message #7 Posted by Nico on 5 June 2002, 11:07 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Thibaut.be

From: "Nico Kristi" <nico.vrydag@pandora.be> > > > > >To: <th_c@hotmail.com> > > > > >Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1356941114 > > > > >Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:18:28 +0200 > > > > > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > > > >I'm sorry but the selling goes through e-bay since there are >already > > >some > > > > >bids. These bids force me to pay e-bay +-5 % of the selling price. >You > > >can > > > > >still bid and then you could come and get it personally, so you >won't > > >have > > > > >to pay the shipping cost. > > > > >I would have done it if there were no bids, I'm sorry about that. > > > > >Good luck! > > > > > > > > > >Kind regards, > > > > >Nico

                        
Re: Cracks me up!
Message #8 Posted by Michael Stapleton (.au) on 5 June 2002, 10:20 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Nico

No there is not!

                        
Re: Cracks me up!
Message #9 Posted by Stephan (CH) on 5 June 2002, 10:36 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Nico

No need to get brassy here. Sometimes it is just a question of decency. It's not concerning copyright yet but just to know what's mine and what's someone elses. Didn't your parants tould you about all that long, long ago?

                              
Dishonest Thibaut.be alias VISU .
Message #10 Posted by Nico on 5 June 2002, 11:05 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Stephan (CH)

Did you read the terms of use on the auction site my dear Thibaut? Because you surely sinned big time there buddy!

>----- Original Message from Thibaut.be----- > > > > >From: <th_c@hotmail.com> > > > > >To: <nico.vrydag@pandora.be> > > > > >Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 2:56 PM > > > > >Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1356941114 > > > > > > > > > > > I'm located in Belgium too. Would you agree to sell it outside >ebay > > >? > > > > > > -------------------- > > > > > > Question from: visu > > > > > > Title of item: Hewlett Packard HP 42S CALCULATOR + >Manual > > > > > > Seller: vulcan800_be > > > > > > Starts: May-30-02 17:02:18 PDT > > > > > > Ends: Jun-06-02 17:02:18 PDT > > > > > > Price: Currently $102.50

                                    
Re: Dishonest Thibaut.be alias VISU .
Message #11 Posted by Thibaut.be on 5 June 2002, 12:26 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Nico

Beste Nico,

1) It's useless to answer you. I'm a member of this community since 1997 and it is not what you are writing that will spoil my reputation. On the contrary !

2) You seem to have fun in flaming people here. What you don't know is that this is a very friendly and helpful community and that what you are trying to do won't just work.

3) If you cut and copy a picture from somewhere, the only thing that is required is that at least you quote the source. It's not that difficult and certainly does not deserve any agressivity from you. Is this really the way you handle your real life ?

4) By the way, it seems that you have stopped your auction, what I won't blame you for, but according to your own words, how far are YOU honnest ?

                                          
A note about stuff on the Internet
Message #12 Posted by Dave Hicks on 5 June 2002, 1:45 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Thibaut.be

"If you cut and copy a picture from somewhere, the only thing that is required is that at least you quote the source."

I usually ask people to quote the source of their pictures when they use mine, because I'm generally pretty easy going about it and assume they just didn't think before they used it.

However, simply quoting the source is not enough in general. You could get sued if someone is more aggressive about it. You can also get your website removed or your ebay auction cancelled and your ebay account removed. It's just a question of how far the copyright holder wants to take it.

When you want to use someone else's material - just ask.

                                                
Not only that but...
Message #13 Posted by Mike on 5 June 2002, 10:46 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Dave Hicks

Seems to me it is down right deceptive to show a photo of a perfect calculator and say: "You're looking at a HEWLETT PACKARD 42S RPN calculator in a brand new condition"

First, it may be true that "what we are looking at" may be a brand new calculator. But it is not his.

For a good example of a brand new calculator that I bought look at the link below.

Another Brand New Calculator.

Now the seller in the auction we are discussing may, in fact, be 100% brand new. But that is the very reason that we should be posting our photos instead of someone else's.

      
Re: Copycat
Message #14 Posted by Tom (UK) on 5 June 2002, 12:26 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Steve

Now the ebay item says:

"The seller ended this listing early because the item was lost or broken."

Was this a sad loss of an HP42 or did this turn into a private sale? I'm not sure ebay let people do that.

            
Re: Copycat
Message #15 Posted by Thibaut.be on 5 June 2002, 12:37 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Tom (UK)

He says that "The HP is permanently damaged since this afternoon, it fell on the floor." (check here)

Of course it "smells" a private sale.

Actually ebay does not excactly allow that, but they allow you to stop your auction at any time. They won't even charge you a final fee excepted from the insertion fee which is quite low. So it is practically very much possible to you.

      
Peace in the valley
Message #16 Posted by Nico on 5 June 2002, 2:37 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Steve

They only thing I agree with is that I should have mentioned that it wasn't the actual picture of my personal HP42S, but just a picture from a website on the internet. Trust me , I check for copyrights, as I am a Helicopter Pilot Federal Police Agent. No harm done, I thought, when I downloaded it from a no-copyright protected website. Boy, was I wrong!

I regret nevertheless the insinuations as if I knew where the picture came from and any comparisons with other dishonest people on the auction sites. I also regret he let people make fun of me. This always results in hard words from both sides. I will not react on further insinuations anymore, since I've let people drag me around already way too far. The "We Know Us" feeling reigns here obviously, and then it's easy to attack one man alone who stands up for himself. Usually I don't get involved in these kindergarten games and pissing matches, but I guess they caught me in an extreme weak moment as my parents just died in a car-crash.

What started out as me selling a HP42s for 90$ - without a minimum price - ended up with tons of e-mails of collectors pushing and bribing me to sell it outside the auction. I guess I offended them when I said I wanted to play the game honestly, because these are the ones on this forum insulting and insinuating. Bad losers, I say. Nothing more to add, case closed.

'There will be peace in the valley...one day'

            
Re: Peace in the valley
Message #17 Posted by Dave Hicks on 5 June 2002, 2:56 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Nico

"Trust me , I check for copyrights, as I am a Helicopter Pilot Federal Police Agent."

Nico,

Since the Copyright act of 1976, pretty much everything that doesn't specifically say otherwise is copyrighted. As one copyright faq says even a doodle on a napkin is copyrighted the instant you create it.

                  
Re: Peace in the valley
Message #18 Posted by Jonathan Busby on 5 June 2002, 3:04 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Dave Hicks

Dave Hicks said :

"Nico,

Since the Copyright act of 1976, pretty much everything that doesn't specifically say otherwise is copyrighted. As one copyright faq says even a doodle on a napkin is copyrighted the instant you create it."

Actually, I think it's March 1, 1989 , if it makes any difference. ;) See http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#noc for more info.

Jonathan

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remove the random permutation of "NOSPAM" from my e-mail address before replying.

                        
That faq is more official-looking
Message #19 Posted by Dave Hicks on 5 June 2002, 3:12 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Jonathan Busby

than the one I looked at so I will accept the date it gives.

                        
Re: Peace in the valley
Message #20 Posted by Nico on 5 June 2002, 3:13 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Jonathan Busby

Thanks Dave and Jonathan, I've been looking up information about copyrights on internet myself since the day you sent me that e-mail, and you are absolutely right. Very little is known about internet copyright by tons of internet users. I guess it is because the internet world is still very young and generally known as 'free'. Thanks again.

                  
And, if YOU didn't take it...
Message #21 Posted by Mike on 5 June 2002, 10:54 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Dave Hicks

Or buy the rights,

You don't own the copyright!!!


[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Go back to the main exhibit hall