The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 04

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For Dave Hicks and others
Message #1 Posted by William L. Drylie (third rock from the sun) on 13 Sept 2000, 8:21 p.m.

I was cleaning out my basement and computer room, and I was amazed at the boxes of hp25, hp67, and hp 41CX program sheets that I have accumulated over the years. Most of these programs are mathematical and mechanical engineering in nature along with some boiler combustion programs and some hp 67 programs dealing with structural and piping analysis. There are some calculus programs that I translated from TI59 programming to hp41CX programming and embellished them. This was from a published book a few years ago, and I do not know if I am bound by copyright laws not to give out the programs. I need advice. Dave, if you are interested in any of these programs or anyone else, I will take the time to properly document and make a list of them, and make hard copies of the programs with the working examples, record them on magnetic cards and freely distribute them if there is enough interest. I also have programs of the same nature for the hp 15C and hp48SX. Few of these programs are copied from other sources, most written by me which I have used succesfully over the years. If no one is interested, they will be sorted, destroyed or permanently filed. It will take me some time to catalog them properly. Should I post a list or what? Bill.

      
I'd love to get your programs online
Message #2 Posted by Dave Hicks on 13 Sept 2000, 10:54 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by William L. Drylie (third rock from the sun)

Is there any chance you could type some in and/or use some of the tools referenced in the articles forum to get them net-ready?

Let's concentrate on the ones that you have clear ownership for first - I'm not sure of the legal status of ports.

If you can't do that, I'll take them for future posting, but that will take longer because I have a stack of programs that I need to type up too ;-)

            
Re: I'd love to get your programs online
Message #3 Posted by William Drylie on 15 Sept 2000, 10:04 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Dave Hicks

Dave,

I will try typing them in for you. As I said before, I still have to sort through them. It is kind of messy, as I have drawings and diagrams with a lot of dialogue as to the programs workings, examples etc. Some of these will have to be redrawn and scanned? I will contact you later as to how I have decided to do this. Also, right now I'm in the middle of a large steam restoration project at the University Of North Dakota, so this may take a little time as my free time is short, but I will do this. Some of the programs I may not deem worthy of posting, but will send you copies and you decide.

My attorney is looking in to the ports and printed programs from old other sources. He thinks we can do those also with no problem or with permission.

I will keep in touch. I have a couple of new programs well documented that I will type in for you soon.

Cheers, Bill

                  
Re: I'd love to get your programs online
Message #4 Posted by Dave Hicks on 17 Sept 2000, 6:48 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by William Drylie

Thanks Bill. I'm looking forward to seeing them.

      
Volunteer helper
Message #5 Posted by Steve (Australia) on 14 Sept 2000, 1:01 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by William L. Drylie (third rock from the sun)

If you have a large quantity and you don't want to do all the work yourself, then maybe you can find volunteers to help.

I'd certainly be able to help in keying programs, (maybe not documenting them).

Yell out if you need a hand.

      
Re: For Dave Hicks: Volunteer, two.
Message #6 Posted by Glynn on 14 Sept 2000, 4:08 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by William L. Drylie (third rock from the sun)

Like Steve, I too would be happy to help the Museum archive any program materials from paper into HTML.

It doesn't matter which calculator; it doesn't matter if the program is for calculating the number of toothpicks yielded by a Norwegian-Pine end-table-- if it helps bring together the Program Library to the state we all want it to be (the number-one place we can all point to for ideas, inspiration, as well as solutions), then BY ALL MEANS let's do it.

It's Dave's project to coordinate. I don't want to create any pages he would not like to put up here at the Museum. I would not like to step on other people's contributions, either. Dave may have recommendations to us all regarding style, size, pictures/directories, etc.

But if Dave says your program sheets are something he would like to see re-rendered in HTML: I'll happily take faxes; emailed GIF, TIF, BMP, PDF(Acrobat), XIF(Pagis) attachments; or you can mail me xeroxes (contact Dave Hicks and I'll make sure he has my address). You don't need to (and probably oughtn't) part with your originals, unless Dave has a place to put them.

I am playing right now with that AOLPress HTML editor; a bit disconcerted at its creators lately disavowing its existence, but otherwise happy at how well it seems to work. I think I shall be able to read a program-listing and turn it into a page without difficulty.

I would guess that most programs would be only standalone HTML pages with their documentation included, so getting them back to Dave is just a matter of an email attachment, or FTPing to the Museum site.

Some ISPs are attachment-restrictive; mine has no problem with anything under a meg, so a scan larger than that might need to be sent to me as two or three TIFs... I am trying to anticipate problems with several people getting your boxes of material in some form and making them into Museum format, but mostly, this should be DO-ABLE.

So, anyway, let's get the volunteers and each of us do one or two listings apiece, and see how well it works, and I am sure we can figure out the best way to accomplish this.

Dave, you know that if YOU have a stack to type, I'm happy to help there, too.... I've not written many programs myself, being "mathematically-challenged", but an online archive is a great thing and worth working on, and I'll do what I can to help y'all get it done.

            
Re: For Dave Hicks: Volunteer, two.
Message #7 Posted by db (martinez, california) on 14 Sept 2000, 11:10 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Glynn

this is worth doing. if someone can teach me how; i'll type stuf into HTML.

                  
Re: For Dave Hicks: Volunteer, two.
Message #8 Posted by Steve (Australia) on 15 Sept 2000, 12:39 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by db (martinez, california)

Umm, I was sort of volunteering to key in HP41 code and then get it into some machine readable format (barcode, cards, tape, disc, LIF file, etc.)

Once code is keyed in, it's almost trivial to capture it and automatically write HTML (if it's even required).

And on that subject, has anyone noticed that the HP site referred to in the article that describes the use of LIF files has vanished.

                        
Re: For Dave Hicks: Volunteer, two. - LIF files
Message #9 Posted by Reinhard Hawel (Austria) on 15 Sept 2000, 2:41 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Steve (Australia)

Do you mean this page?

http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/index.html

or more specific: this one ?

http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/old/lif_over.html

Http to a ftp site may seem strange, but it works.

                        
Re: For Dave Hicks: Volunteer, two.
Message #10 Posted by Glynn on 15 Sept 2000, 8:56 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Steve (Australia)

Steve; A great idea, for you to put it in your machine first, test it, then (trivially-- I'll take your word for it) output it into the one format that is halfway reasonable for a site that serves the community of HP calculator users, whether HPIL-equipped or not.

The program listings themselves may have value to me, for instance, as a 33c and a 15c owner, even if I have to manually key in a modified version of the program you've already keyed in on your 41c and stored as a LIF. You see, calculators are kind of related in a way, and while translating a program might be hard, even in some cases impossible, it can sometimes be done if it is documented well in a human-readable way.

I'd like to get a chance to see some of the programs, much as I can with the programs in our current HTML'ed collection.

Maybe a good side-line is to offer, through the Museum, your pre-stored library to other 41c users; the convenience of not having to key it in from a screen might be worth something. But please DO ALSO put it in a form I can learn from, so my poor little un-connected calculators have access to proven routines.

I wish all HP calcs were as expandable and capable as your "loaded" 41c. Even 42s owners I guess would be lost with just a 41c-based LIF library... code-compatible as they are.

                              
Please do't shoot me!!!!
Message #11 Posted by Steve (Australia) on 15 Sept 2000, 9:10 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Glynn

Don't shoot me guys!

In response to William L Drylie's post:

> Dave, if you are interested in any of these programs or
> anyone else, I will take the time to properly document
> and make a list of them, and make hard copies of the
> programs with the working examples, record them on
> magnetic cards and freely distribute them if there is
> enough interest.

Note the piece about recording them on magnetic cards? I was offering to assist in keying in some of these programs if William (or anyone else) has a large stack of them.

And Glynn wrote:

I wish all HP calcs were as expandable and capable as your
"loaded" 41c. Even 42s owners I guess would be lost with
just a 41c-based LIF library... code-compatible as they
are.

I'm not arguing against textual representations of the programs!

The main thing is that the programs need to be transcribed correctly. That really means keying them in, running any examples provided, and verifying the results.

It makes sense (to me at least) to then provide the code in as many formats as possible. This is especially true as we cannot assume every HP41 owner has a card reader, a tape drive, a disc drive, a wand, an HP-IL interface, etc. etc. But many may have at least one of them. Naturally, everyone has the ability to enter code by hand, and that is probably the most archival method of all.

Providing code in tape and card forms is probably the hardest, given the relative scarcity of the media. In fact 3 1/2 inch 720K disks aren'y exactly easy to come by either! All the more reason to provide for as many options as we can.

                                    
Re: Please do't shoot me!!!!
Message #12 Posted by Glynn on 15 Sept 2000, 11:50 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Steve (Australia)

LOL Steve;

No one was ever going to shoot you. We have a much more painful, sadistic and draconian punishment in mind...

Like how about putting you in charge of the media distributions <evil chuckle> ???

;-)

                                    
Having machine-readable formats is a good thing...
Message #13 Posted by Dave Hicks on 17 Sept 2000, 6:30 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Steve (Australia)

Especially if they are online. Ideally, I'd like to have an HTML page providing the documentation and listing of the program along with one or more "binary formats" also linked off the page. (Using the compiler/decompiler contributed to the software library, for example.) Dan McDonald's decompiler/bar code maker (#42 in the articles forum might also be used to create barcode gifs than can be downloaded by people with wands.)

Magnetic media is OK as well but I'd like to avoid having that be the main or only method, both for the reasons already mentioned, and because the people doing the distributing my loose interest/get busy/move etc. in the future.

            
Thanks Glynn
Message #14 Posted by Dave Hicks (USA) on 17 Sept 2000, 6:39 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Glynn

I need to start sorting out what I have. I've got a pile of PPC newsletters and permission to post them, but work and summer chores have slowed me down. (My driveway had a small chunk of concrete to repair - at least it looked small - I just got finished with dealing with 1400 lbs. of concrete.)

I'll selecting a few programs I'd like to republish and send them to you - please email me a physical address.

AOL Press is nothing special - but that's what I like about it - it doesn't seem to put anything in the HTML that confuses any browsers. Some HTML editors get much too fancy.

                  
Programs on the way
Message #15 Posted by Dave Hicks (USA) on 17 Sept 2000, 10:42 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Dave Hicks (USA)

After posting the message above, I went through my email and saw that you had already sent me your address. I've dug out three programs and I'm mailing them to you tonight.

Thanks!


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