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Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
10-03-2017, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 08:54 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #41
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
Ok since I don't see activity on the torrent, I took down the previous one and I integrated the new changes.

The collection got 300 MB larger due to some accidental (re)discoveries today.
I added the hp solve newsletter issues - at least the one that I could find - and the hp journal issues that talked about calculators somehow.
If someone spots errors or gaps, please let me know.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:00e5e5300efb414a877e3117c7ab9bcd41563550&dn=hp_calc_torrent
(as usual, more info in the first post)

Once again, since alone I can do a little, please link me what should I include. Especially for userful userRPL programs that you used/tested (that I am starting to collect but I will never finish alone).

It is obvious that also RPN programs are welcomed but someone else should maintain their collection. I would say that having a collection of free42 programs wouldn't be half bad.

edit: the torrent has already another seeder (that was smart to pick only what needed) and 2 peers (one from Russia, the other from Germany) that are downloading the content.

edit2: whoa there is one australian peer that uploads to the others real fast. I cannot upload that fast sorry.

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10-03-2017, 10:39 PM
Post: #42
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-03-2017 02:18 PM)pier4r Wrote:  I added the hp solve newsletter issues - at least the one that I could find - and the hp journal issues that talked about calculators somehow.

Both of these items are already available via public websites.

If you are not aware of them, why not ask first (after searching in some obvious places of course)?

If you are aware of them, why are you redistributing them?

If you've found them, but think they are not easily found by other folks, then I'd say it's better to just share links, rather than copying the data to a new source and sharing from there.

If you want to contribute to the preservation of vintage HP Calculator literature, manuals, documents, catalogs, etc. I believe your contributions would be most valuable if you can locate, scan and share information that is not already available. That may require purchasing, trading or extensive hunting around, but it is by far a bigger and better contribution.

--Bob Prosperi
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10-03-2017, 11:03 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 06:15 AM by pier4r.)
Post: #43
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-03-2017 10:39 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  If you are aware of them, why are you redistributing them?

As wrote in another thread: because tomorrow the links could be gone (and indeed, some issues of hp solve were not directly reachable) just because someone moves the directory without updating the links. I mean, take for example the hp solve issue 30. I guess there was no intention to take it down, just the people that updated the website forgot it and for what I know it is not reachable anymore from the hp site.
With the p2p method, when kept alive by a community, the content is more resilient.

Websites are all nice and fancy, but extremely fragile, a misconfiguration (not even removals or deletions) and the source is gone. Different document root? Content unreachable. Wrong link? Content unreachable. Updated cgi processor? Content unreachable. Etc. Then of course come deletions, and then there is little to do.

The second, minor, point is that having a collection already done saves time to search single sources.

edit: I also share the links, but only the main ones, in the collaborative wiki http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=resources:start

While I thank you for the idea of contributing with what is not already available, I only partially agree. Even a different organization/availability of content is a contribution, I do not know if little or big, but it is one. Otherwise I would have hard time to justify works like: libraries, anthologies, collections, museums, etc. that often collect what already exists.

edit2: another example were the HHC contests pre 2016. Dropbox moved the links and the links from Gene, shared in the past for older contests, were not valid anymore.

Sure even a torrent can be invalidated if no one shares it (or files are moved from their intended location), but since we are not few there may be an higher chance to keep it alive.

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10-03-2017, 11:43 PM
Post: #44
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
The HP48 is missing from your wiki.

I registered but no edit button, this is my hp48 list so far:

General info:

Computation for Handheld Calculators
HP Journal
P.21
http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/Iss...987-08.pdf

HP48 Specific:

H-P’s Newest Scientific Calculator
Modern Electronics p.23
https://archive.org/details/modern-elect...990?q=48sx

Equipment Reports
Radio Electronics p.16
https://archive.org/details/radio_electr...-09?q=48sx

Brochure
http://www.hparchive.com/Computer-Softwa...9_0391.pdf

HP Journal (multiple articles)
http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/Iss...991-06.pdf

RPL Programming Guide
http://www.hpcalc.org/details/1743

Advanced User-RPL guide
http://www.hpcalc.org/details/1698

Introduction to System RPL and Assembly Language
http://www.hpcalc.org/details/7114
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10-04-2017, 02:17 AM
Post: #45
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-03-2017 11:03 PM)pier4r Wrote:  As wrote in another thread: because tomorrow the links could be gone (and indeed, some issues of hp solve where not directly reachable) just because someone moves the directory without updating the links.

I agree completely with your rationale. A number of times I've found the answer I was looking for in the old archived forum posts, only to find links to pictures or documents yield "404 - Not Found." A related example of course would be all of Geoff's pictures documenting fixes and repairs that are no longer available due to changes in terms and conditions of the image host he was using.

I would suggest limiting content to that which is not already available via torrent or which is already widely replicated elsewhere. Always more fun to collect those rare gems! Smile TOS is now available via torrent and Eric indicates hpcalc.org may soon be as well. The content of those sites is probably safe.

Perhaps someone could suggest a useful web site that is no longer actively maintained and may be in danger of disappearing? Something along the lines of the (HP49?) collection of programs by the late German professor that was only restored due to the intervention of others.

~Mark
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10-04-2017, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 08:57 AM by pier4r.)
Post: #46
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
@EugeneNine: thanks for the input, I will reply later about the edit button.

(10-04-2017 02:17 AM)mfleming Wrote:  I agree completely with your rationale. A number of times I've found the answer I was looking for in the old archived forum posts, only to find links to pictures or documents yield "404 - Not Found." A related example of course would be all of Geoff's pictures documenting fixes and repairs that are no longer available due to changes in terms and conditions of the image host he was using.

I would suggest limiting content to that which is not already available via torrent or which is already widely replicated elsewhere. Always more fun to collect those rare gems! Smile TOS is now available via torrent and Eric indicates hpcalc.org may soon be as well. The content of those sites is probably safe.

Perhaps someone could suggest a useful web site that is no longer actively maintained and may be in danger of disappearing? Something along the lines of the (HP49?) collection of programs by the late German professor that was only restored due to the intervention of others.

~Mark

Are there already collections shared via torrent? Which ones?
TOS? What does it mean?
Yes for Eric I wait eagerly, but in the meanwhile I do my part.

Yes saving what is likely to disappear (or hard to get without searching, searching and more searching) but it is still interesting is exactly what should be in the p2p collection. The problem is that I include what I find interesting* but I am one person, therefore I have certain interests and knowledge. With more people collaborating it is faster to collect different things, since different people have different interests and can point out different information to save.

But thanks for the info, I will try to backup (unless someone already has an archive to share. If yes, please tell me) this site: http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/WR49/ as next step.

* that may disappear tomorrow or not, my motto is "in doubt, save it. Better saved twice than lost for good".

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10-04-2017, 01:00 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 01:42 PM by Jlouis.)
Post: #47
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
TOS - The Other Site - *****

This site is running by Warren Furlow and have lots of useful documents, hp41 modules rom, etc, all available through torrent.

And a nice forum too.
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10-04-2017, 03:51 PM
Post: #48
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-04-2017 08:56 AM)pier4r Wrote:  Yes for Eric I wait eagerly, but in the meanwhile I do my part.

Current timeline for the frequently-changing items (Usenet archive and mirror of my site) is 1/1/2018, and I will probably update those every 6 months. Changing more often than that would reduce the number of seeders too much, IMHO.

I intend to release some of the other torrents soon that won't change as often, if ever. Some of the torrents are likely to include the following:

* Official HP documentation that was downloaded from their web site in the past but isn't necessarily available anymore (manuals, learning modules, HP Solve), perhaps 1.5 GB
* Official HP press photos of calculators, around 200 MB
* Official HP emulator collection, around 300 MB
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10-04-2017, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 04:47 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #49
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-04-2017 03:51 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 08:56 AM)pier4r Wrote:  Yes for Eric I wait eagerly, but in the meanwhile I do my part.

Current timeline for the frequently-changing items (Usenet archive and mirror of my site) is 1/1/2018, and I will probably update those every 6 months. Changing more often than that would reduce the number of seeders too much, IMHO.

I intend to release some of the other torrents soon that won't change as often, if ever. Some of the torrents are likely to include the following:

* Official HP documentation that was downloaded from their web site in the past but isn't necessarily available anymore (manuals, learning modules, HP Solve), perhaps 1.5 GB
* Official HP press photos of calculators, around 200 MB
* Official HP emulator collection, around 300 MB

Great, and yes I think that a stable torrent is better. I change it frequently because the current collection expands pretty quickly (and I did not even plan it, it just happens. One thing follows another), I guess it will get stable in some time.

Also if someone has a previous release can get a new release and select only the files that are new without redownloading everything.

For the hp41 torrent, I will contribute with my bandwidth as soon as I can, neat idea.

edit: why cannot one mention the hp41 site? What happened?

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10-04-2017, 05:29 PM
Post: #50
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
The RPL programming docs in the torrent (the actual torrent not the magnet link), what calculators do those apply to? If I start one one am I going to hit new functions that are in a 49 and not a 48?
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10-04-2017, 05:40 PM
Post: #51
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
Congratulations Pier and thank-you for your brilliant initiative. A useful work for the whole Community and thanks to all the contributors
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10-04-2017, 06:27 PM
Post: #52
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-04-2017 04:45 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Also if someone has a previous release can get a new release and select only the files that are new without redownloading everything.

I'm using Transmission and initially removed all files and the torrent before adding the new magnet URL torrent. Then I found I could update the magnet URL in the torrent properties but I haven't found a way to know if all files or just the new files are downloaded, much less select new files for downloading.

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10-04-2017, 07:38 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 07:46 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #53
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-03-2017 11:43 PM)EugeneNine Wrote:  The HP48 is missing from your wiki.

It is not my wiki. It is hosted by Bruce Bergman and it is a neat idea. But even that can disappear tomorrow because life happens.

Anyway since it is a collaborative wiki, you can contribute yourself Smile

For the edit button, after you verify your mail (I do not remember if it is needed to confirm your mail) you should look on the left summary.

See this picture: https://i.imgur.com/AxYEpjb.png

Anyway thanks for the input. For the wiki, I assume you will be soon able to edit it, instead I will collect the resources mentioned by you for the next release of the torrent.

@Craig:
I use transmission mostly for testing so far (on my VPS with linux on the command line) and it seems to just download everything that is not already in the right position.

I mean if I have the same files but ordered in different structures, it seems that transmission thinks they are different. Instead if they are in the same subfolder, transmission should recognize them as equal.

In any case I am pretty sure one has control on the file list with transmission, only it gets complicated, so maybe easier torrent clients may be used (I use qbittorrent on windows, that is not so intuitive for releases, but it is ok for downloads)

@aurelio: thanks. So far I do not perceive encouragement, rather hostility by some (with arguments that I cannot really understand) but hey, everyone is entitled of his opinion until it is not harmful for the others. Moreover it is still my perception that can be totally wrong.

edit1: I am adding to my torrent client the hp41 DVD torrent, so hoping soon to be a source too.

@EugeneNine: I think the RPL docs for sure works for calculators that were released later than the doc. I'd say the 50g at least.

edit2: I wanted to reply to Dave Frederickson that wrote a post but I don't find it, maybe I was mistaken.

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10-04-2017, 08:09 PM
Post: #54
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
I didn't have the edit option, start discussion was the first on the menu. I did receive another e-mail today stating I had edit rights. He must have the initial registration automated and then the additional rights manual.

I'm hoping those rpl docs will all be backwards compatible with my 48.

Can you do a normal .torrent link so I can download and seed it as well?
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10-04-2017, 08:19 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 08:31 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #55
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
As reported in the first post, check here: http://clserver1.cz.pier4r.t28.net:2080/...c_torrent/

although this won't be so often updated as the magnet links (also, there are now 4 sources, so you should be somehow able to hook on some seeds using the magnet link).

Anyway I collected your inputs (some files were already in the collection) and I guess I will release an updated torrent within this weekend. What is a long work, but also very interesting, is to find and test userRPL programs to collect in the text file released with the torrent.
Though my current focus is on list processing, instead of just scrolling code saying "cool", now I have actually to test it and verify it is usable and doing this I learn also a couple of things. Really nice. (again, alone I will just scratch the surface of the available interesting and valid userRPL programs on the major hp-calculator forums, so if you have suggestions, those are welcomed)

edit: attempting the recursive download of this site http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/WR49/
The command is:

wget --recursive --level=1 --wait=30 --random-wait --no-http-keep-alive --tries=2 --no-clobber http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/WR49/

I already discovered that two locations (I don't know how valuable) are gone:
http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/hp48
http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/hp49

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10-04-2017, 09:12 PM
Post: #56
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-04-2017 08:19 PM)pier4r Wrote:  I already discovered that two locations (I don't know how valuable) are gone:
http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/hp48
http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/users/raut/hp49

Not quite.

ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/hp48/
ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/hp49/
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10-04-2017, 09:18 PM
Post: #57
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
Nice find (but how were you able to?). Anyway they left a lot of folders quite exposed on that ftp. I can see too much.

Downloading the hp48 and hp49 directories.

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10-05-2017, 01:56 AM
Post: #58
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-04-2017 07:38 PM)pier4r Wrote:  @Craig:
I use transmission mostly for testing so far (on my VPS with linux on the command line) and it seems to just download everything that is not already in the right position.

I mean if I have the same files but ordered in different structures, it seems that transmission thinks they are different. Instead if they are in the same subfolder, transmission should recognize them as equal.

In any case I am pretty sure one has control on the file list with transmission, only it gets complicated, so maybe easier torrent clients may be used (I use qbittorrent on windows, that is not so intuitive for releases, but it is ok for downloads)

I removed the old torrent, but not the 913 mb of files, added the latest magnet torrent and managed to observe the syncing process where it recognized the old files and proceeded to download just the new ones.

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10-05-2017, 02:31 AM
Post: #59
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
(10-04-2017 09:12 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Not quite.

ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/hp48/
ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/hp49/

Good detective work Sherlock!

It's too bad Rautenberg's '48 and '49 program websites were not also salvaged when they restored the 49g+ site; Rautenberg's powerful RPL tools really do need detailed documentation to use effectively. Although there are broad similarities between his 48/49/50 libraries, the newer ones used new capabilities (like extra shift planes for keyman, etc.) so it's difficult to tell what was/wasn't there.

Still, nice to have the programs themselves.

Thanks for uncovering these and sharing.

--Bob Prosperi
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10-05-2017, 06:08 AM
Post: #60
RE: Collection of HHC programming contests and other useful documents
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2d42e2e8592f744631ae8f5866b454b5d614347e&dn=hp_calc_torrent

Released new torrent since the previous version has quite some seeders.

Included:
- resources suggested by eugeneNine (some ar enot in the hp48 folder, for example rplman is in the rpl folder)
- what I could download from the site of the prof Rautenberg.
- some other small additions.

As usual, suggestion about what to include next are welcomed.

Also check the first post.

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