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Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
09-08-2017, 02:03 AM
Post: #1
Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
[Image: 36952391681_f53ac2dfb5_b.jpg]

[Image: 36253215374_b148b074b8_b.jpg]
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09-08-2017, 04:05 AM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 04:09 AM by Jlouis.)
Post: #2
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
Wow, very collectible!

Now we know where came HP inspiration to make the Voyagers...

But wait, it's not RPN....not programmable...never mind...

And what for "replay"?????
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09-08-2017, 04:19 AM
Post: #3
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
Alpha supports A-F, X, Y and M ????

Still, looks nice a decent CASIO clone.


Pauli
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09-08-2017, 05:22 PM
Post: #4
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-08-2017 04:05 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  And what for "replay"?????
I think "replay" is used while in National Public Radio (npr) mode. :-)
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09-08-2017, 10:15 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2017 10:15 PM by Gerson W. Barbosa.)
Post: #5
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-08-2017 04:19 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  Alpha supports A-F, X, Y and M ????

Still, looks nice a decent CASIO clone.


Pauli

This appears to be a clone of CASIO fx-82MS, but not a so decent one. SHIFT OFF turns it off, but ON won't turn it on again, at least for this particular unit. I will ask for a replacement tomorrow.

Gerson.
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09-09-2017, 12:11 AM
Post: #6
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-08-2017 04:05 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  And what for "replay"?????

Most Casio calculators (even the current models) call the cursor keys "replay" because you use them to "replay" (re-execute) previous calculations. You use up- and down-cursor to browse the history stack, and left- and right-cursor to edit an expression on the stack, in case you want to replay it after changing something in it.

X<> c
-Joe-
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09-09-2017, 03:32 PM
Post: #7
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
Interesting take on the Casio fx-300. Too bad it isn't (partially) solar powered.
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09-10-2017, 02:37 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2017 02:48 AM by Jlouis.)
Post: #8
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-09-2017 12:11 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  
(09-08-2017 04:05 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  And what for "replay"?????

Most Casio calculators (even the current models) call the cursor keys "replay" because you use them to "replay" (re-execute) previous calculations. You use up- and down-cursor to browse the history stack, and left- and right-cursor to edit an expression on the stack, in case you want to replay it after changing something in it.

Thanks Joe,

I have some old and one new (Prizm) Casio, and they use ANS like the HP RPN last x, but this is is the first time i see this "replay".

Other thing interesting is the SSD and dot matrix together...

By the way, Joe, a little bit off topic, but I recently made your "HP 71 made easy" printed and spiral bounded and I'm having a great time reading it and learning the 71 in the past weeks, so thanks a lot for this well written and really easy to learn manual...I know, you wrote it about 30 years ago, but its never late to say thank you!

Cheers

JL
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09-10-2017, 02:54 AM
Post: #9
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-09-2017 03:32 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Interesting take on the Casio fx-300. Too bad it isn't (partially) solar powered.

Partially the functions too, Eddie, as I quick compare...

Well, at least the manufacturer may have right to win a prize...for cloning two calculators at the same time...Smile
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09-10-2017, 04:55 AM
Post: #10
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-10-2017 02:54 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 03:32 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Interesting take on the Casio fx-300. Too bad it isn't (partially) solar powered.

Partially the functions too, Eddie, as I quick compare...

Well, at least the manufacturer may have right to win a prize...for cloning two calculators at the same time...Smile

The manual that came with it is useless as it refers to another calculator.

This one, in Portuguese, is good enough:

http://www2.td.utfpr.edu.br/semat/I_semat/UCC.pdf

Now the radix mark had been changed to comma, as it should.
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09-10-2017, 08:05 AM
Post: #11
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-10-2017 04:55 AM)Gerson W. Barbosa Wrote:  The manual that came with it is useless as it refers to another calculator.
This one, in Portuguese, is good enough:
http://www2.td.utfpr.edu.br/semat/I_semat/UCC.pdf

Now the radix mark had been changed to comma, as it should.

Thank you for the Casio fx-82ms series Portuguese user guide, Gerson.

I find this HOOPSON PS-12MS calculator a very interesting model.
At first look it is like a HP Voyager series machine, while inside it runs some code to implement the extremely popular (at least here in Portugal) Casio fx-82ms/350ms series.

I wonder if these Chinese manufactures are authorized to copy the Casio firmware, or else they just did reverse engineering to create their own native code to implement the Casio fx-350ms functions.

Here in Portugal we can find similar machines (but without that nice HP Voyager form factor used by the HOOPSON) like the KADIO KD-82MS that looks like a exact replica of the Casio fx-82ms, despite costing less than 4 Euros each and of course the case build is not so resistant and the keys can occasionally fail to register.

Jose Mesquita
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09-10-2017, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2017 08:33 AM by ijabbott.)
Post: #12
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-10-2017 08:05 AM)jebem Wrote:  Here in Portugal we can find similar machines (but without that nice HP Voyager form factor used by the HOOPSON) like the KADIO KD-82MS that looks like a exact replica of the Casio fx-82ms, despite costing less than 4 Euros each and of course the case build is not so resistant and the keys can occasionally fail to register.

Here is an unboxing video for the marvelous Gaxio FG-82MS. I'm sure you'll agree that the build quality is astounding!


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09-12-2017, 09:15 AM
Post: #13
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
(09-10-2017 08:32 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  Here is an unboxing video for the marvelous Gaxio FG-82MS. I'm sure you'll agree that the build quality is astounding!

Funny video, yes.

Well, in these cases, I would say that we get what we pay for.
For brand new, funny brand name machines, costing around 30% of a regular Casio machine, where probably 99% of its features are working fine most of the time, I would say that it is an acceptable business proposition Smile

Jose Mesquita
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09-14-2017, 11:05 PM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2017 11:09 PM by Jlouis.)
Post: #14
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but...
Talking about clones....this is an exact replica....Smile



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09-25-2017, 08:59 PM
Post: #15
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but... aka Hoopson PS-12MS voyager style machine
I finally managed to acquire one of these exquisite Hoopson PS-12MS calculators (Thank you so much Gerson for all your help).

This model can be found in some shops in South America, namely in Brazil.
I guess it is kind of rare, though, as an Internet search returns close to zero information.

This specific model is a Chinese made machine (where else?), distributed by "Mercoriental Importação e Exportação Ltda".

At first look it seems that this model is a clone of the Casio fx-82ms.
But the Mike Sebastian's Calculator Forensics test reveals a different beast inside, so it doesn't seems to be a exact clone.

This calculator seems to be able to work with 16 BCD digits internally, as the test result was 8.999999998078897 after extracting the remaining internal digits, and this result is different from the Casio signatures.

A quick Internet search for 8.999999998078897 forensics shows just a few machines with the same signature:
  • Corner Office ATC-139
  • Durabrand 828 (SC-1376 version)
  • Fred's Dual Power Scientific Calculator
  • Walgreens ATC-139
References found here:
https://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/miscprj/models.htm
http://calculators.torensma.net/index.ph...detail&;
http://www.datamath.org/Related/Freds/TI-30XIIS.htm
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...ead=112928

Specifications:
  • Two "AA" battery cells (3VDC)
  • Two line display (text on top row, numeric on bottom)
  • 10+2 digit numeric display
  • 240 functions
  • Made in China

Powering the calculator off will clear the display and the replay buffer, but the memory contents is preserved including the Ans register value.

[Image: SAM_3978.JPG] [Image: SAM_3979.JPG]


Forensics test - extracting the remaining digits.

[Image: SAM_3969.JPG]


And of course my preferred activity: Dismantling the machine to see what's inside.
The back cover maintains the LCD display and the processor board in place.
Four small metal self taping screws need to be undone to remove it.

[Image: SAM_3970.JPG]


Mainboard PCB label: 82MS-9-2 13.06.14

After removing the back cover, the mainboard PCB and the LCD display are floating around.
Flexible flat cables interconnect the keyboard and display to the mainboard assembly.

The membrane keyboard is fixed using undone plastic rivets. Didn't try to dismantle it.
Reset key contacts on the left of the mainboard PCB assembly.

[Image: SAM_3973.JPG]

Back side of the mainboard and LCD display.

[Image: SAM_3974.JPG] [Image: SAM_3976.JPG]

Jose Mesquita
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09-26-2017, 12:32 PM
Post: #16
RE: Not remotely an HP calculator, but... aka Hoopson PS-12MS voyager style machine
For completeness here are some current consumption measurements.
I was curious to find out how current efficient is this SoC processor.

Setup:
Digital current meter set to read DC Average and Maximum values, inserted in series with a external 3VDC power supply.
Now, I know this is not the correct tool to get a more precise view of the current consumption, as the machine load has a strong RF pulsating current component that would require an oscilloscope or equivalent equipment for this job. But I believe the chosen method is enough to have a rough idea of the average current consumption.

In power off state:
Maximum/Average = 0µA (well, less than 0.1µA which is the current meter resolution)
This will maintain the register memories contents while it is in off sate.

Note: While taking measurements, I noticed that the SoC is not loosing the replay buffer and the display contents if removing the power supply for a minute or so.
In fact I had to use the Reset button to recover from apparent system hang a couple of times. IMHO, this indicates a very high quality, low leakage, semiconductor substrate.
If only the designers had installed a external capacitor to filter/stabilize the battery power supply! This would also allow to change the AA batteries without losing any memory contents.



Power ON:
Maximum = 399µA (During power on)
Average = 16.8µA (at idle, no keys pressing)

Typing keys:
Maximum = 80µA

Doing miscellaneous calculations:
(arithmetic, trigonometric and factorial calculations at a rate of 3 seconds per operation, during 3 minutes)
Maximum = 120µA
Average = 84µA


AC current readings:
Setting the current meter to AC readings, the values observed were around two times higher, which I would say it is normal (but my current reader is bandwidth limited to 100KHz, so it is not really capturing the faster current peaks in the RF region where I believe the processor runs - I had no time to use my oscilloscope to take further readings).


So I would say this is a very efficient SoC design, at least from the point of view of current consumption. The AA battery cells should last for years if they don't leak before that.

Jose Mesquita
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