HP-71 Compu-LS module
03-21-2017, 03:28 PM
Post: #61
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 11:23 AM)twa14 Wrote:  Regarding printing out the BASIC code, is this possible via ILper\PIL-BOX

In addition to the method Bob suggested you can:
* Export the file from Emu71 using DOSLink. Handy for single files.
* TRANSFORM the BASIC file INTO TEXT. Copy the file to a LIF image, then export to DOS/Windows. Convenient if you have a collection of files or if the emulator isn't available.

The next question is how to get an updated BASIC file back into the 71.
1. Edit the BASIC text file using your favorite editor
2. Import the file
2.a. Using DOSLink if using Emu71
2.b. Copy the file to a LIF disc image, then into the 71.
3. TRANSFORM the text file INTO BASIC

Dave
03-21-2017, 03:32 PM
Post: #62
 J-F Garnier Member Posts: 254 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 01:22 PM)twa14 Wrote:  I read about the module first in the CHHU journal.

A review of the module is in CHHU V2N3 p16-17.

J-F
03-21-2017, 03:42 PM
Post: #63
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Quite a favorable review of the module. At \$1300 and a BASIC program nearly 32k in size I would hope that you're getting your money's worth.

A scan of the manuals would be a worthy addition to the 71B archives.

Dave
03-21-2017, 04:11 PM
Post: #64
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Tom,

Do you have the complementary Compu-DC module and manual?

Dave
03-21-2017, 04:25 PM
Post: #65
 twa14 Junior Member Posts: 46 Joined: Nov 2016
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
I wrote a program many years ago on the 41c to analyze continuous beams. The solution involved solving a number of linear equations (depending on the number of spans). My first version used the PPC ROM to solve the equations (slow). The next version used the advantage ROMS MSYS function from CCD. That was a very big difference!. I'm assuming that the Math ROM will provide the same advantages. Network adjustment uses Least Squares, the matrices can become quite large depending on the number of points to be adjusted.

I'm getting the printout now, thanks Bob. I will scan the manuals and post them, give me a few days
03-21-2017, 04:27 PM
Post: #66
 twa14 Junior Member Posts: 46 Joined: Nov 2016
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Hi Dave I do not have COMPU DC
03-21-2017, 06:37 PM
Post: #67
 twa14 Junior Member Posts: 46 Joined: Nov 2016
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Basic file is attached for those interested, manuals will follow before weekend

Attached File(s)
COMPULS.txt (Size: 43.37 KB / Downloads: 10)
03-21-2017, 08:21 PM
Post: #68
 Christoph Giesselink Member Posts: 140 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 03:28 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  The next question is how to get an updated BASIC file back into the 71.
1. Edit the BASIC text file using your favorite editor
2. Import the file
2.a. Using DOSLink if using Emu71
3. TRANSFORM the text file INTO BASIC

Just curious, I tried this some weeks ago without success. The DOSLINK copy wasn't coming to an end.

But then I remembered that a PC ASCII file has a different format than the HP71 TEXT format. So before using DOSLINK, the PC ASCII file must be converted to the HP71 TEXT aka LIF TEXT format.
03-21-2017, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2017 09:12 PM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #69
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 08:21 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote:
(03-21-2017 03:28 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  The next question is how to get an updated BASIC file back into the 71.
1. Edit the BASIC text file using your favorite editor
2. Import the file
2.a. Using DOSLink if using Emu71
3. TRANSFORM the text file INTO BASIC

Just curious, I tried this some weeks ago without success. The DOSLINK copy wasn't coming to an end.

Hi Christoph,

From the 2014 Allschwil meeting, http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/hpil/files/doslink.pdf

Slide 2 suggests this use: Example: importing a program from a PC text file. Seems like that's exactly what I stated. You do need to execute CLEAR :LOOP or CLEAR :DOSLINK to close the files. The hassle with this method is prepending the LIF header to the text file. For that reason I prefer to use pyILPER as a front-end for the Python version of Tony Duell's LIFUTILS.

(03-21-2017 08:21 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote:  But then I remembered that a PC ASCII file has a different format than the HP71 TEXT format. So before using DOSLINK, the PC ASCII file must be converted to the HP71 TEXT aka LIF TEXT format.

PC ASCII files and HP71 text files are exactly the same. It's the 75 that has a non-standard text file format. PC ASCII text files are supported on the 75 as LIF1 "Interchange" files.

Regards, Dave
03-21-2017, 09:22 PM
Post: #70
 J-F Garnier Member Posts: 254 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 08:53 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  From the 2014 Allschwil meeting, http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/hpil/files/doslink.pdf

Slide 2 suggests this use: Example: importing a program from a PC text file. Seems like that's exactly what I stated. You do need to execute CLEAR :LOOP or CLEAR :DOSLINK to close the files. The hassle with this method is prepending the LIF header to the text file. For that reason I prefer to use pyILPER as a front-end for the Python version of Tony Duell's LIFUTILS.
Well, this sentence on slide 2 may be misleading. On slide 3, I explicitly wrote:"COPY can’t be used to load a vanilla text file from an interface. A simple BASIC program can be used instead." and the process is described on slide 4.

Quote:PC ASCII files and HP71 text files are exactly the same. It's the 75 that has a non-standard text file format. PC ASCII text files are supported on the 75 as LIF1 "Interchange" files.
No, Christoph is right. Before adding the LIF header, the PC text file must be transformed to LIF1 (HP71 TEXT) format, if you want to load it directly with COPY :DOSLINK.

J-F
03-21-2017, 10:56 PM
Post: #71
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 09:22 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  Before adding the LIF header, the PC text file must be transformed to LIF1 (HP71 TEXT) format, if you want to load it directly with COPY :DOSLINK.

I concur, but in my defense, all the 71 text files in the swap archive (*.t71) are standard DOS text files. Using DOSLINK to import a text file is still a valid technique, but there are easier methods.

Dave
03-22-2017, 07:52 AM
Post: #72
 J-F Garnier Member Posts: 254 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-21-2017 10:56 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:
(03-21-2017 09:22 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  Before adding the LIF header, the PC text file must be transformed to LIF1 (HP71 TEXT) format, if you want to load it directly with COPY :DOSLINK.
I concur, but in my defense, all the 71 text files in the swap archive (*.t71) are standard DOS text files. Using DOSLINK to import a text file is still a valid technique, but there are easier methods.

No need to defend yourself, we are just discussing on our common interest for old machines and systems :-)
I believe that the *.t71 was used as a reminder that these files come from the HP71. Or maybe the tool used to extract the files did the text file conversion automatically.
Actually, I never used so much this collection of SWAP individual files (except for the text files!), in the past I found that some files are corrupted (don't remember which) and I preferred to directly access the disc LIF images.
And yes, there are nowadays a lot of different tools and ways to manage these tasks around loading/transferring files between our HP machines and the computer world. That's great!

J-F
03-22-2017, 03:44 PM
Post: #73
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-22-2017 07:52 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I believe that the *.t71 was used as a reminder that these files come from the HP71. Or maybe the tool used to extract the files did the text file conversion automatically.
Actually, I never used so much this collection of SWAP individual files (except for the text files!), in the past I found that some files are corrupted (don't remember which) and I preferred to directly access the disc LIF images.
And yes, there are nowadays a lot of different tools and ways to manage these tasks around loading/transferring files between our HP machines and the computer world. That's great!

I think I read somewhere that the LIF SWAP archives were created using HP-IL Link. This tool will automatically convert between LIF1 and DOS text when transferring files which would explain why the *.t71 files are standard DOS text. It can also convert 71 DATA files to/from text. *.t71 is a convention devised by the archive creator for distinguishing the various filetypes in the archive.

I have been using HPDir with the -c(onvert) option for transferring text files between DOS/Windows and LIF disc images, but lately I've switched to pyILPER as a front-end for Joachim's updated LIFUTILS.

Dave
03-22-2017, 07:23 PM
Post: #74
 twa14 Junior Member Posts: 46 Joined: Nov 2016
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
I have been reading up on the doslink to get the basic program on the PC into the 71B. I found an article by Namir Shammas but it uses the dos version of EMU71. Are there instructions for moving a text file from the PC into the 71B via the PIL-BOX, EMU71/Win and ILper?

Tom Walsh
03-22-2017, 08:04 PM
Post: #75
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-22-2017 07:23 PM)twa14 Wrote:  Are there instructions for moving a text file from the PC into the 71B via the PIL-BOX, EMU71/Win and ILper?

Hi Tom,

There are several ways. As I stated above, HPDir from the HPDir Project will convert and copy a DOS/Windows text file to a LIF disc image, however it's a command-line tool. An alternative is pyILPER which is a Python version of ILPer with additional features, like plotter emulation. The LIF Utilities for Linux, by Tony Duell, have been revamped and can be integrated into pyILPER. These utilities offer lots of features, like the ability to list the keywords in a 71 LEX file.

Which are you more comfortable with?

Dave
03-22-2017, 08:46 PM
Post: #76
 twa14 Junior Member Posts: 46 Joined: Nov 2016
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Hi Dave

Thanks for your patience. I'm looking at a document of JF Garnier from the Allschwil meeting of 1/11/14. I shows an EMU71/Win 71B overlay with a doslink dialogue box above it showing inputs for an outfile and an infile. ILper is totally different. I assume that I can use the PIL-BOX to transfer files between PC and 71B. I realize that I do not understand what 9114B and HDRIVE1.dat files are in Ilper. How do you use these? Why cant I copy a file to one of these and use as a 9114B substitute? How do I get the text file back into the printer window in ILper for transfer to the physical 71B? Do I need to have a special ROM mounted in EMU71/Win?

Tom
03-22-2017, 09:18 PM
Post: #77
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Hi Tom,

(03-22-2017 08:46 PM)twa14 Wrote:  I'm looking at a document of JF Garnier from the Allschwil meeting of 1/11/14. I shows an EMU71/Win 71B overlay with a doslink dialogue box above it showing inputs for an outfile and an infile. ILper is totally different.

This is an old version of DOSLink. ILPer now incorporates DOSLink.

HOWEVER, DOSLink isn't as easy to use as HPDir or pyILPER, so lets work our way up to DOSLink.

Quote:I realize that I do not understand what 9114B and HDRIVE1.dat files are in Ilper. How do you use these?

Those controls allow you to select a LIF disc file image which ILPer (and pyILPER) then use to emulate a 9114 disc drive. This is the easier method of transferring a file compared to DOSLink.
Didn't you use these controls to load the LEX files?

Quote:Why cant I copy a file to one of these and use as a 9114B substitute?

That is the method we'll use to copy the text file to the 71. See Step 2.b. in Post# 61.

Quote:How do I get the text file back into the printer window in ILper for transfer to the physical 71B? Do I need to have a special ROM mounted in EMU71/Win?

You can't. Like a real printer, the Printer emulator is only an output device. We'll use one of the mass storage emulations.

The first step in all of this is to get the DOS text file onto a LIF disc image. Then it's a simple matter of COPYing the file from the LIF disc image to the 71.

So back to my question, are you more comfortable with the command-line tool or the Python version of ILPer?

Dave
03-22-2017, 09:35 PM
Post: #78
 twa14 Junior Member Posts: 46 Joined: Nov 2016
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
If you mean the DOS command line , I'm comfortable with that. I have never used Python
03-22-2017, 11:46 PM
Post: #79
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
(03-22-2017 09:35 PM)twa14 Wrote:  If you mean the DOS command line , I'm comfortable with that. I have never used Python

I don't know Python, either, but it's just a matter of installing the tools. After that it's just like using a different version of ILPer.

Here're the steps to get the text file back into the 71.
Code:
1. Download and extract HPDir from the HPDir Project webpage to your working directory. http://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdir/ 2. Open a command window in your working directory 3. Create a blank LIF disc image    Execute "HPDIR -initialize -lif -9122 MYLIF.lif" where "MYLIF.lif" is the name you've chosen for your LIF disc image. 4. Copy the text file to the disc image    Execute "HPDIR -add -c MYLIF.lif FOO.txt" where "FOO.txt" is the name of the DOS text file.  Be sure to capitalize the text filename. 5. Open ILPer and connect to the 71B as you've done before 6. In the Mass Storate control Drive HP9114B:, select MYLIF.lif 7. On the 71B, execute "COPY FOO:TAPE"

Regards, Dave
03-23-2017, 12:32 AM
Post: #80
 Christoph Giesselink Member Posts: 140 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: HP-71 Compu-LS module
Like Dave wrote, there're many ways. As addition my variant is using the DOSLINK device.

Here're the steps to get the text file back into the 71.