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(71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
07-02-2016, 04:16 PM
Post: #1
(71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
Hallo,

I bought a disc for the Workbook71 and tried to get the files on my HP-71b. It looks like it is the original one. I got an HPIL Error: "HPIL ERR:Device Not Found". There is no description how to get the files on the HP in the Workbook.

So I tried to read the disc with LIFUTIL on my old Laptop with WIN98 and they were readable. What i saw ist, that there is no disc name on it.

So I put all files from the disc in a directory on my laptop and took care that they are not converted (checked the filetype afterwards, compared to a readable backup disc). Then I put them back on another disc (append the files to the previous one). In the 9114B I got the directory now and correct names, correct file size. But when I wanted to put them on my HP-71b I got an error: "HP IL ERR: Checksum"

I got the disc as an DAT-File on CD too but no idea to put this on a disc ...

Anybody an idea how to handle this? Would be great.

thanks in advance
Erwin
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07-02-2016, 05:55 PM
Post: #2
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-02-2016 04:16 PM)Erwin Wrote:  Hallo,

I bought a disc for the Workbook71 and tried to get the files on my HP-71b. It looks like it is the original one. I got an HPIL Error: "HPIL ERR:Device Not Found". There is no description how to get the files on the HP in the Workbook.

So I tried to read the disc with LIFUTIL on my old Laptop with WIN98 and they were readable. What i saw ist, that there is no disc name on it.

So I put all files from the disc in a directory on my laptop and took care that they are not converted (checked the filetype afterwards, compared to a readable backup disc). Then I put them back on another disc (append the files to the previous one). In the 9114B I got the directory now and correct names, correct file size. But when I wanted to put them on my HP-71b I got an error: "HP IL ERR: Checksum"

I got the disc as an DAT-File on CD too but no idea to put this on a disc ...

Anybody an idea how to handle this? Would be great.

thanks in advance
Erwin

What commands are you using to copy the files to the 71b?

Can you show us a CAT listing of the files, it will help to answer the questions.

Some examples, to copy a text file called "TEXT1" on the disc to your machine, do

COPY TEXT1:MASSMEM TO TEXT1 (to copy it into main ram)

COPY TEXT1:MASSMEM TO NEWFILE:PORT(1) (to copy it to a file with a new name to the iRAM in Port-1)

you can also use the device names ":TAPE" or ":9114B" or even simply the device number (e.g. ":2" for the 2nd device) if you prefer.

--Bob Prosperi
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07-03-2016, 12:03 AM
Post: #3
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-02-2016 04:16 PM)Erwin Wrote:  I got the disc as an DAT-File on CD too but no idea to put this on a disc ...

Fdio can create a 9114 compatible floppy from the DAT file, IF you have a compatible Floppy Disc Controller in your PC. That you got LIFUTIL to run on your Win98 PC is a good indication that your FDC can write non-DOS discs.

WB71 also exists in ROM format on the LEXFL1 disc image available here:
http://ftp.ftp.hpmuseum.org/hpswap/lexfl1.gz
http://hhuc.us/2014/files/Speakers/08,09...lexfl1.dat

The ROM file is easily installed in the emulators, Emu71/DOS and Emu71/Win, or FRAM71.

Dave
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07-03-2016, 06:53 AM
Post: #4
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-03-2016 12:03 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  
(07-02-2016 04:16 PM)Erwin Wrote:  I got the disc as an DAT-File on CD too but no idea to put this on a disc ...

Fdio can create a 9114 compatible floppy from the DAT file, IF you have a compatible Floppy Disc Controller in your PC. That you got LIFUTIL to run on your Win98 PC is a good indication that your FDC can write non-DOS discs.

WB71 also exists in ROM format on the LEXFL1 disc image available here:
http://ftp.ftp.hpmuseum.org/hpswap/lexfl1.gz
http://hhuc.us/2014/files/Speakers/08,09...lexfl1.dat

The ROM file is easily installed in the emulators, Emu71/DOS and Emu71/Win, or FRAM71.

Dave

Hi,

thank you for your help. I tried the FIDO, but it don't access the floppy instead it ended in a timeout. So there I have no idea how to handle with this.
I installed the EMU71 and configured the ports and tried to put the LIF-File on the EMU71 but there is no hint in the manual how to do this, so I can't check the LIF

kind regards
Erwin
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07-03-2016, 07:50 AM
Post: #5
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-02-2016 05:55 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  What commands are you using to copy the files to the 71b?

Can you show us a CAT listing of the files, it will help to answer the questions.

Some examples, to copy a text file called "TEXT1" on the disc to your machine, do

COPY TEXT1:MASSMEM TO TEXT1 (to copy it into main ram)

COPY TEXT1:MASSMEM TO NEWFILE:PORT(1) (to copy it to a file with a new name to the iRAM in Port-1)

you can also use the device names ":TAPE" or ":9114B" or even simply the device number (e.g. ":2" for the 2nd device) if you prefer.

Hi, thank you for your help. I did the copy like I did before and you described in your message. I can do it with any other files (i.e my backups). I made screenshots (see my DOC-File
.doc  HP71_disc_problem.doc (Size: 85.5 KB / Downloads: 15) ) how i did it with the LIFUTIL. But with this utility I couldn't put the LIF-disc on it. As I wrote in the post to Dave the FDIO utility is not running.
I put the extracted LIF-disc with some LEX-files from Dave's proposal on this disc and I can read them on the 9114B (with CAT) but when I want to copy them to my HP71 it brings an Checksum Error too.

So I'm a little frustrated - how can I do?

kind regards
Erwin
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07-03-2016, 07:57 AM
Post: #6
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B

.pdf  HP71_disc_problem.pdf (Size: 154.26 KB / Downloads: 20)
(07-03-2016 07:50 AM)Erwin Wrote:  
(07-02-2016 05:55 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  What commands are you using to copy the files to the 71b?

Can you show us a CAT listing of the files, it will help to answer the questions.

Some examples, to copy a text file called "TEXT1" on the disc to your machine, do

COPY TEXT1:MASSMEM TO TEXT1 (to copy it into main ram)

COPY TEXT1:MASSMEM TO NEWFILE:PORT(1) (to copy it to a file with a new name to the iRAM in Port-1)

you can also use the device names ":TAPE" or ":9114B" or even simply the device number (e.g. ":2" for the 2nd device) if you prefer.

Hi, thank you for your help. I did the copy like I did before and you described in your message. I can do it with any other files (i.e my backups). I made screenshots (see my DOC-File ) how i did it with the LIFUTIL. But with this utility I couldn't put the LIF-disc on it. As I wrote in the post to Dave the FDIO utility is not running.
I put the extracted LIF-disc with some LEX-files from Dave's proposal on this disc and I can read them on the 9114B (with CAT) but when I want to copy them to my HP71 it brings an Checksum Error too.

So I'm a little frustrated - how can I do?

kind regards
Erwin

Sorry here the DOC as PDF
.pdf  HP71_disc_problem.pdf (Size: 154.26 KB / Downloads: 20)

regards Erwin
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07-03-2016, 12:59 PM
Post: #7
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
Can you upload a copy of the .LIF file image here so we can take a look and try to load the files?

Some of the files appear to be of a type that is unique to the WB ROM, so you will not be able to do anything with those files until WB is installed, since the ability to recognize that file type is contained in the WB LEX file itself.

--Bob Prosperi
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07-03-2016, 04:07 PM
Post: #8
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
As I'm the seller and did a backup copy to my PC, I just tried to read some files. Here is the ILPer log:

Code:
>CAT ALL
  NAME   S TYPE   LEN    DATE    TIME PORT
workfile   BASIC     0 01/01/00 00:00 
>DEVID$(3)
HDRIVE1
>CAT :3
   NAME    S TYPE   LEN    DATE    TIME 
WBLEX        LEX    1008 01/10/00 23:47 
WB           BASIC  5692 01/10/00 23:47 
UTIL         BASIC  2714 01/10/00 23:48 
MACRO        BASIC   347 01/10/00 23:49 
LED          BASIC  1250 01/10/00 23:50 
PORTER       BASIC  1724 01/10/00 23:50 
FINDER       BASIC  2266 01/10/00 23:51 
SORTWB       BASIC  3012 01/10/00 23:52 
PRINTWB      BASIC  2187 01/10/00 23:54 
REPORT       BASIC  4272 01/10/00 23:55 
CHARSET      BASIC   266 01/10/00 23:57 
WBSAMPLE     DATA   2700 01/10/00 23:58 
DBSAMPLE     DATA   2064 01/11/00 00:00 
TXSAMPLE     TEXT   1792 01/11/00 00:02 
MENU         BASIC   836 01/11/00 00:04 
FCURSOR      LEX     120 01/11/00 00:06 
LOOP         BASIC   973 01/11/00 00:07 
UTIL2        LEX     923 01/11/00 00:08 
TED          BASIC  2079 01/11/00 00:11 
>COPY WB:3 TO WB
>CAT ALL
  NAME   S TYPE   LEN    DATE    TIME PORT
workfile   BASIC     0 01/01/00 00:00 
WB         BASIC  5692 01/01/00 00:02 
>COPY WBLEX:3
>VER$
HP71:1BBBB WB:D HPIL:1A

So I could load the WB BASIC file and also the WBLEX LEX file properly. I guess there's something wrong with your hardware.
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07-03-2016, 05:05 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2016 05:08 PM by J-F Garnier.)
Post: #9
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-02-2016 04:16 PM)Erwin Wrote:  It looks like it is the original one. I got an HPIL Error: "HPIL ERR:Device Not Found". There is no description how to get the files on the HP in the Workbook.

Erwin, you should concentrate on the "Device Not Found" error. I see no reason of such an error. Can you give us the exact command that causes the error?

J-F
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07-03-2016, 05:17 PM
Post: #10
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-03-2016 04:07 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:  As I'm the seller and did a backup copy to my PC, I just tried to read some files. Here is the ILPer log:

Code:
>CAT ALL
  NAME   S TYPE   LEN    DATE    TIME PORT
workfile   BASIC     0 01/01/00 00:00 
>DEVID$(3)
HDRIVE1
>CAT :3
   NAME    S TYPE   LEN    DATE    TIME 
WBLEX        LEX    1008 01/10/00 23:47 
WB           BASIC  5692 01/10/00 23:47 
UTIL         BASIC  2714 01/10/00 23:48 
MACRO        BASIC   347 01/10/00 23:49 
LED          BASIC  1250 01/10/00 23:50 
PORTER       BASIC  1724 01/10/00 23:50 
FINDER       BASIC  2266 01/10/00 23:51 
SORTWB       BASIC  3012 01/10/00 23:52 
PRINTWB      BASIC  2187 01/10/00 23:54 
REPORT       BASIC  4272 01/10/00 23:55 
CHARSET      BASIC   266 01/10/00 23:57 
WBSAMPLE     DATA   2700 01/10/00 23:58 
DBSAMPLE     DATA   2064 01/11/00 00:00 
TXSAMPLE     TEXT   1792 01/11/00 00:02 
MENU         BASIC   836 01/11/00 00:04 
FCURSOR      LEX     120 01/11/00 00:06 
LOOP         BASIC   973 01/11/00 00:07 
UTIL2        LEX     923 01/11/00 00:08 
TED          BASIC  2079 01/11/00 00:11 
>COPY WB:3 TO WB
>CAT ALL
  NAME   S TYPE   LEN    DATE    TIME PORT
workfile   BASIC     0 01/01/00 00:00 
WB         BASIC  5692 01/01/00 00:02 
>COPY WBLEX:3
>VER$
HP71:1BBBB WB:D HPIL:1A

So I could load the WB BASIC file and also the WBLEX LEX file properly. I guess there's something wrong with your hardware.

Hallo,

thank you all for your support. It looks like it was my fault. Cause the Disk had no name it is only possible to do this with the number in the HPIL-Line.
Code:
CAT:1
COPY WBLEX:1
So I get the files in the HP71. I didn't think about this, cause all my discs have names. Problem solved, failure from the 30 cm in front of the calculator - thank you all very much for your help.

On the other hand I'm curios why it was not possible to copy it with the LIFUTIL in a proper way - would be great to make this running. It looks like, there is something to do in the preferences for HPIL-Header?

I have the PIL-Box too, but couldn't get it running now. It looks like there is a problem with the USB-Port Mapping to the internal RS232 on my Laptop with WIN98. But in this case I have to dig a little deeper.

best regards from Vienna
Erwin
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07-03-2016, 06:47 PM
Post: #11
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-03-2016 05:17 PM)Erwin Wrote:  I have the PIL-Box too, but couldn't get it running now. It looks like there is a problem with the USB-Port Mapping to the internal RS232 on my Laptop with WIN98. But in this case I have to dig a little deeper.

On Win98, you have to manually install the FTDI drivers. There are still available on the FTDI site. I'm using the version 1.09.06 on my old Win98 system and it works well with the PIL-Box.
If you are using the latest ILPer from Christoph, you may also have to install the VC 2005 redistributable files.

J-F
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07-04-2016, 05:05 PM
Post: #12
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-03-2016 06:47 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  
(07-03-2016 05:17 PM)Erwin Wrote:  I have the PIL-Box too, but couldn't get it running now. It looks like there is a problem with the USB-Port Mapping to the internal RS232 on my Laptop with WIN98. But in this case I have to dig a little deeper.

On Win98, you have to manually install the FTDI drivers. There are still available on the FTDI site. I'm using the version 1.09.06 on my old Win98 system and it works well with the PIL-Box.
If you are using the latest ILPer from Christoph, you may also have to install the VC 2005 redistributable files.

J-F

Hallo,

I installed this drivers like they are proposed on the WEB and you wrote. I'll take care of this when I'm back from holidays :-) Also want to try an installation on my Macbook Pro - but this seems not to Bussi Erwin so easy. I read the process here in the Forum
here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-382...ht=JPC+ROM
and here: http://hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-5998.html

Will report my success - hopefully.

best regards
Erwin
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07-04-2016, 07:26 PM
Post: #13
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
Erwin,

One other issue I see is that you're trying to run LIFUTIL from Win98. LIFUTIL was written for PC's of the time and is highly dependent on machine speed, so I'm surprised it runs at all. Typically LIFUTIL is run in DOS Mode with the processor cache disabled.

Can you post the command used and the error message when Fdio reported a timeout?

Dave
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07-04-2016, 09:07 PM
Post: #14
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
[attachment=3719][attachment=3718][attachment=3716][attachment=3717]
(07-04-2016 07:26 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Erwin,

One other issue I see is that you're trying to run LIFUTIL from Win98. LIFUTIL was written for PC's of the time and is highly dependent on machine speed, so I'm surprised it runs at all. Typically LIFUTIL is run in DOS Mode with the processor cache disabled.

Can you post the command used and the error message when Fdio reported a timeout?

Dave

Hi,

the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite 4080XCDT and LIFUTIL is running without problem - the only problem is that when I save a file and put it back then I got an error an the HP71 when i want to run it. Seems that there have to be a certain configuration - i will play with this a little more. Looks like that it is not possible to put a LIF-DISC-File on it - I'm wrong? Cause it only copy single files ore whole directories.

FIDO: Pic 2 in the document is the DOS-Window from FDIO with the error code

regards
Erwin


Attached File(s)
.pdf  FDIO22_Problem.pdf (Size: 55.1 KB / Downloads: 12)
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07-04-2016, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2016 10:40 PM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #15
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(07-04-2016 09:07 PM)Erwin Wrote:  the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite 4080XCDT and LIFUTIL is running without problem - the only problem is that when I save a file and put it back then I got an error an the HP71 when i want to run it. Seems that there have to be a certain configuration - i will play with this a little more. Looks like that it is not possible to put a LIF-DISC-File on it - I'm wrong? Cause it only copy single files ore whole directories.

I prefer to use HPDir to manipulate LIF image files. Here's an example: [FRAM71] Pre-Production Batch, Post #2

On my Win98 system I need to disable the processor cache to get it to run slow enough to run LIFUTIL. Then it's only good for formatting physical discs. HPDir is a 32-bit console app, like Fdio, making it friendlier to use.

Dave
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10-04-2016, 09:43 AM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2016 10:15 AM by Erwin.)
Post: #16
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
Hi,

after receiving my FRAM71 yesterday (tks Hans) I started my HP71 project. I canceled the idea to connect the PIL-BOX with Windows and installed PYILPER and LITUTILS on my MAC. Seemless installation with Miniconda. After installation of my PIL-BOX it's a pleasure to handle the files from my notebook to the HP71.

One open point for me is that it is not possible to use the keyboard on my MAC to write programs on the HP71. I did it like in the manual but I only can use the terminal window for the output of keystrokes on my HP71.
What is wrong? I use the latest software (updated during the installation)-

Next step is to start with the FRAM71 installation :-)

best regards
Erwin
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10-04-2016, 10:21 AM
Post: #17
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
I noticed when i put the printer out of the HPIL-loop the I can make entries on my MAC-keyboard - very strange

(10-04-2016 09:43 AM)Erwin Wrote:  Hi,

after receiving my FRAM71 yesterday (tks Hans) I started my HP71 project. I canceled the idea to connect the PIL-BOX with Windows and installed PYILPER and LITUTILS on my MAC. Seemless installation with Miniconda. After installation of my PIL-BOX it's a pleasure to handle the files from my notebook to the HP71.

One open point for me is that it is not possible to use the keyboard on my MAC to write programs on the HP71. I did it like in the manual but I only can use the terminal window for the output of keystrokes on my HP71.
What is wrong? I use the latest software (updated during the installation)-

Next step is to start with the FRAM71 installation :-)

best regards
Erwin
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10-04-2016, 01:56 PM
Post: #18
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(10-04-2016 09:43 AM)Erwin Wrote:  One open point for me is that it is not possible to use the keyboard on my MAC to write programs on the HP71. I did it like in the manual but I only can use the terminal window for the output of keystrokes on my HP71.
What is wrong? I use the latest software (updated during the installation)-

1. Do you have the KEYBOARD Lex file installed (available in the FORTH ROM)?

2. Is the PIL-Box the first device in your Loop? It should not matter, but sometimes seems to.

3. Did you enter and run the PILTERM program for use with pyILPer. See the help file for the program listing.

Probably something simple like these issues. I've found pyILPer quite reliable and truly helpful by enabling your normal keyboard.

--Bob Prosperi
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10-04-2016, 03:24 PM
Post: #19
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(10-04-2016 01:56 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  
(10-04-2016 09:43 AM)Erwin Wrote:  One open point for me is that it is not possible to use the keyboard on my MAC to write programs on the HP71. I did it like in the manual but I only can use the terminal window for the output of keystrokes on my HP71.
What is wrong? I use the latest software (updated during the installation)-

1. Do you have the KEYBOARD Lex file installed (available in the FORTH ROM)?

2. Is the PIL-Box the first device in your Loop? It should not matter, but sometimes seems to.

3. Did you enter and run the PILTERM program for use with pyILPer. See the help file for the program listing.

Probably something simple like these issues. I've found pyILPer quite reliable and truly helpful by enabling your normal keyboard.
Hi,
thank you for supporting. I installed the keyboard file which comes with the PYILPER, first device in loop an started the PILTERM comes with PYILPER too. But with the printer in the loop it is not running, only without. It's not much trouble cause I don't use it to much. Will give it another try later on
best regards
Erwin
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10-04-2016, 05:43 PM
Post: #20
RE: (71b) Problem reading files from disc on 9114B
(10-04-2016 03:24 PM)Erwin Wrote:  I installed the keyboard file which comes with the PYILPER, first device in loop an started the PILTERM comes with PYILPER too. But with the printer in the loop it is not running, only without. It's not much trouble cause I don't use it to much.

Try PRINTER IS * to un-assign the default printer, it may be stuck trying to talk only to the original printer? Just a guess.

Do you have any printers defined in pyILPer? If so, do they work properly when the physical printer is connected. PRINTER IS :PRINTER(1) will assign the first virtual printer in pyILPer as the default (assuming the PIL-Box is connected before the physical printer).

--Bob Prosperi
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