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43s status
03-25-2014, 09:09 AM
Post: #21
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 07:59 AM)colinh Wrote:  It can't be bottom right, because that's one of the simple algebraics (+ - x /).

That just leaves bottom left :-)

Not quite true: Wink
[Image: attachment.php?aid=44]

d:-)
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03-25-2014, 09:30 AM
Post: #22
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 09:09 AM)walter b Wrote:  
(03-25-2014 07:59 AM)colinh Wrote:  It can't be bottom right, because that's one of the simple algebraics (+ - x /).

That just leaves bottom left :-)

Not quite true: Wink
[Image: attachment.php?aid=44]

d:-)

Lovely! Big Grin

Greetings,
    Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
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03-25-2014, 09:44 AM
Post: #23
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 09:09 AM)walter b Wrote:  
(03-25-2014 07:59 AM)colinh Wrote:  It can't be bottom right, because that's one of the simple algebraics (+ - x /).

That just leaves bottom left :-)

Not quite true: Wink

Argh! When did they swap?! Is that what one of the HW developers meant by the keys being in the wrong place?

Please, algebraics on the right (like on the 32S, WP 34S, 42S, 48GX, even the TI-59 and every other calculator on the planet, except the 41C and maybe some other old stuff)

Anyway - you can't put the algebraics on the left, because you have to put the ON button in the bottom left corner. (hehehe, see what I did there?)
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03-25-2014, 09:53 AM
Post: #24
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 09:44 AM)colinh Wrote:  When did they swap?!

You can find out yourself Wink by reading previous posts.

Quote:Anyway - you can't put the algebraics on the left, because you have to put the ON button in the bottom left corner. (hehehe, see what I did there?)

I can't see anything preventing us from doing that.

([:-)
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03-25-2014, 10:36 AM
Post: #25
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 09:53 AM)walter b Wrote:  
(03-25-2014 09:44 AM)colinh Wrote:  When did they swap?!

You can find out yourself Wink by reading previous posts.

Quote:Anyway - you can't put the algebraics on the left, because you have to put the ON button in the bottom left corner. (hehehe, see what I did there?)

I can't see anything preventing us from doing that.

([:-)

(Again) lovely! Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

Greetings,
    Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
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03-25-2014, 11:34 AM
Post: #26
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 09:53 AM)walter b Wrote:  
Quote:Anyway - you can't put the algebraics on the left, because you have to put the ON button in the bottom left corner. (hehehe, see what I did there?)

I can't see anything preventing us from doing that.

Well, if you want to overload the poor + key with ON/OFF instead of the traditional EXIT key... then you're not being traditional, and might as well leave the ON/OFF bottom right :-(

It seems there are too many traditions to choose from. Some being more traditional than others?
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03-25-2014, 12:31 PM
Post: #27
RE: 43s status
Back to start:
If [+] is bottom left (as I showed you) and [EXIT] is bottom right (together with ON/OFF as usual)
then what's the reason for talking about anybody wanting 'to overload the poor + key with ON/OFF instead of the traditional EXIT key'??

TIA for enlightenment.

d:-?
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03-25-2014, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2014 01:50 PM by colinh.)
Post: #28
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 12:31 PM)walter b Wrote:  Back to start:
If [+] is bottom left (as I showed you) and [EXIT] is bottom right (together with ON/OFF as usual)
then what's the reason for talking about anybody wanting 'to overload the poor + key with ON/OFF instead of the traditional EXIT key'??

Sorry - I still had the images with the algebraic functions on the left in my mind (at the front :-) as well as the following at the back of my mind:

Quote:I can live with almost any position of ON. I strongly vote for leaving it UNshifted. And I think having ON in the bottom row of keys will make it the easiest to protect it by some stiff cover/case. You may call me a traditionalist in that matter but there must be a reason why (IIRC) all the younger HPs have their ON keys down there, or did I miss anything?

I just assumed "down there" meant bottom left, which is where all the younger HPs have their ON keys, isn't it?


Quote:TIA for enlightenment.

d:-?

Anything to spread a little enlightenment :-)


PS. I'm slowly getting used to the layout. It's nice that ( (i ± EEX) (STO RCL) (x<>y Rv) (1/x yx √x) ) form logical groups.

PPS. Say, will it run Lisp? :-)
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03-29-2014, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 03-29-2014 11:41 AM by jebem.)
Post: #29
RE: 43s status
What is the WP-43S status?
I took the time to list here some links I found so far related to this theme:

1) SourceForge (official 43S site):
"Firmware for a calculator that is a super-set of the legendary HP-42S. Look up the WP 34S project to learn about its roots. The WP 43S, however, is going to feature eight rows of keys - one of them for softkeys."
http://sourceforge.net/projects/wp43s/?source=directory

2) Wiki - WP 43S Project
"A brain storming area for the development of the 43S calculator. Just a collection of ideas and goals for the moment. Everything is subject to change on a whim including the name."
http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=43s:project


3) HP Museum forum archive:

3.1) What exactly is the WP 43S (Nov-2013)
"Walter B words: This calculator will be the first non-HP RPN calculator designed from scratch after quite some decades. It's a hobbyist's project again: Eric S. and Richard O. are designing and building the hardware, Pauli, Marcus and I are dealing with firmware and UI"
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...ead=255930

3.2) DIY543 prototype pictures (Oct-2013)
"Richard Ottosen words: Here are some quickly done pictures of one of the first prototypes done by Eric Smith and myself."
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...ead=253355


4) Eric Smith - The 43S project
Excellent video presentation series covering the work progression/brainstorming during three years!

4.1) Sharp 2.7" memory LCD demo (Aug-2011)
"Demo of Sharp LS027B7DH01 2.7" memory LCD. The display has 400x240 pixels, and operates on extremely low power, 50 μW for a static display, and average 175 μW during updates. It is ideal for use in battery-powered devices, including those powered by lithium coin cells."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLk4MqhRyLA

4.2) HHC 2011: Scaled Reptiles of the Nordic Countries (Sept-2011)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yZk4IvfFw

4.3) HHC 2012: Even Larger Scaled Reptiles of the Nordic Countries (Sept-2012)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ftRUtXGrI

4.4) Energy Micro EFM32 Design Contest 2012 Entry: Specialty Programmable Calculator (Jan-2013)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGbYB106erU

4.5) HHC 2013: Still Larger Scaled Reptiles of the Nordic Countries (Sept-2013)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WolGdu9Pb7A

Jose Mesquita
RadioMuseum.org member

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03-29-2014, 07:18 PM
Post: #30
RE: 43s status
Walter has designed the fonts to be used by the 43S firmware. I did some work to translate his images to TTF fonts usable in Windows. He used the fonts to create proposed renderings of the display for different inputs and results. That's all from my side...

Marcus von Cube
Wehrheim, Germany
http://www.mvcsys.de
http://wp34s.sf.net
http://mvcsys.de/doc/basic-compare.html
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03-29-2014, 08:26 PM
Post: #31
RE: 43s status
Boa tarde Jose,

Please take a look at the various last updates of the sites you quote. While there's certainly a lot of continuity, some directions may have changed in the last years. Contributing to confusion may be that the term "43S" is far older - it was used on this forum for long as acronym for a "HP-42S reloaded", a device which HP didn't build since 1995.

HP's stubborn refusal to provide anything of adequate quality for science and engineering professionals below the battleship class caused quite some anger and frustration over the years, and that anger turned into action with the HP-20b / WP 34S in 2008. Of course we appreciate that Cyrille has opened the HP-20b and -30b for repurposing (grand merci, Cyrille!!). OTOH that device is severely limited by its given HW, mainly its ... display and its little memory. With the "scaled reptiles" we hope to overcome those limitations.

Until day X (explained in another 43S thread earlier) expect the main 43S announcements, discussions, polls, etc. on this very forum. Forget the other sites for the time being. Thereafter, you'll find more (SW) news at SourceForge. You can easily deduct day X hasn't come yet - we (WPM) are waiting for Eric and Richard to supply the HW; no use developing SW any earlier.

In the meantime, we play around a bit, crazy as we are:
  • creating some fonts for the 43S,
  • writing a (now) 344 page 43S manual just based on the WP 34S, the HP-42S, some imagination, and the LCD technical data,
  • stripping the WP 34S to a WP 31S,
  • conducting some polls,
etc. which keeps us awake in these boring times Wink

As mentioned above, don't expect anything significant happening before day X. We've got a pretty detailed concept of the 43S UI, that's all. Hope that explains a bit, else don't hesitate to continue asking questions.

d:-)
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03-29-2014, 09:28 PM
Post: #32
RE: 43s status
(03-29-2014 08:26 PM)walter b Wrote:  In the meantime, we play around a bit, crazy as we are:
  • creating some fonts for the 43S,
  • writing a (now) 344 page 43S manual just based on the WP 34S, the HP-42S, some imagination, and the LCD technical data,
  • stripping the WP 34S to a WP 31S,
  • conducting some polls,

Walter, what are you guys thinking about for a solver for the 43s? Are you going with the 42s style solver with MVARs, etc? Or some other approach? There are so many things that were done very elegantly and intuitively on the 42s; it would be great to see more of the 42s elegance in the 43s.

-Jonathan
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03-31-2014, 10:15 AM
Post: #33
RE: 43s status

.pdf  43s_Solver.pdf (Size: 143.67 KB / Downloads: 84)

Hope the attached excerpt of the draft manual answers your questions. Else ...

d:-)
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03-31-2014, 02:45 PM
Post: #34
RE: 43s status
(03-31-2014 10:15 AM)walter b Wrote:  Hope the attached excerpt of the draft manual answers your questions. Else ...

Thanks Walter,

Looks very nice. Which calculators have used this approach in the past? This is similar to the way the solver in the Prime works, but I was curious about past HP RPN calculators that use this algebraic equation entry/solver approach

-Jonathan
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03-31-2014, 05:19 PM
Post: #35
RE: 43s status
(03-31-2014 02:45 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:  Which calculators have used this approach in the past?
All models based on the RPL OS, starting with the 18C and including the 27S. In addition, it's possible to also enter just one estimate by leaving out the second one.

Thus far: Well done, Walter :-).
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04-01-2014, 11:18 AM
Post: #36
RE: 43s status
(03-25-2014 09:09 AM)walter b Wrote:  Not quite true: Wink

Walter,

you and colinh left me a wee bit confused with that animated exchange about the ON-side of things...

Was your point indeed that - at least for the time being - the TEam plans to have the simple algebraics and ENTER on the left side?

I have to admit: I would be delighted!

a.n.
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04-01-2014, 02:05 PM
Post: #37
RE: 43s status
For all our readers who missed it for whatever reason: this picture shows the state of the art of the 43S keyboard; it was published here at 2013-12-20 and was downloaded almost 800 times since then:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=44]

d:-)
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04-01-2014, 04:01 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 04:14 PM by Manolo Sobrino.)
Post: #38
RE: 43s status
This might have been discussed before, maybe multiple times. This project has its roots in the 42S, and I've already checked that only the HP 45 (... and the Prime...) has a square / shifted square root key (interestingly the 33s has both).

Just from a usability point of view, has a survey been done? I tend to use much more often the square than the square root, am I alone? If you have a deep stack, you won't mind performing the square by duplicating the value, which takes the same number of key presses but is probably faster (not that they considered that for the 48s layout).

Are you happy with the good old square root / shifted square key, or maybe a square / shifted square root key (or even just a square root / whatever you need more key) would make you happier?

(Just asking, please don't stone me.)
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04-01-2014, 04:15 PM
Post: #39
RE: 43s status
(04-01-2014 04:01 PM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  This might have been discussed before, maybe multiple times. This project has its roots in the 42S, and I've already checked that only the HP 45 (... and the Prime...) has a square / shifted square root key (interestingly the 33s has both).

Just from a usability point of view, has a survey been done? I tend to use much more often the square than the square root, am I alone? If you have a deep stack, you won't mind performing the square by duplicating the value, which takes the same number of key presses but is probably faster (not that they considered that for the 48s layout).

Are you happy with the good old square root / shifted square key, or maybe a square / shifted square root key (or even just a square root / whatever you need more key) would make you happier?

(Just asking, please don't stone me.)

Aaaaand... here we go! :)

Greetings,
    Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
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04-01-2014, 04:17 PM
Post: #40
RE: 43s status
(04-01-2014 04:01 PM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  If you have a deep stack, you won't mind performing the square by duplicating the value, which takes the same number of key presses but is probably faster (not that they considered that for the 48s layout).
It's simpler to have a dedicated key when writing equations.
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