Poll: which calculator format do you prefer? Portrait Landscape Doesn't matter Any of the two above

 Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
03-04-2016, 01:55 AM
Post: #41
 striegel Member Posts: 135 Joined: May 2015
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 12:07 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...
You noted that program editing is more readable - how so? For the Portrait version, are the key codes in the program code display adjusted to the new key locations? I can see how they might no be, but if not, it would be nearly impossible to use for programming... though I suppose you could switch to Landscape mode for entering/editing programs, but run them in Portrait mode.

Sorry, I should have included screen captures of the program editor too.

Alan
03-04-2016, 01:58 AM
Post: #42
 Jlouis Senior Member Posts: 383 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-03-2016 11:00 PM)striegel Wrote:
(03-03-2016 02:49 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... it's hard to think of using a 12C in a portrait layout, or a 15C.
...

For a taste of that, try the smartphone app from RLM Tools called 12P-Lite. It supports the standard landscape layout as well as a portrait orientation.

Its real best features are that you can select 12C or 12C Platinum mode, in landscape mode it can show the stack, and program editing is much more readable.

That's why free42 is so fantastic.

It changes the 42s from portrait to landscape, just turn you smartphone or tablet.

Very cool.
03-04-2016, 02:00 AM
Post: #43
 Jlouis Senior Member Posts: 383 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 01:55 AM)striegel Wrote:
(03-04-2016 12:07 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...
You noted that program editing is more readable - how so? For the Portrait version, are the key codes in the program code display adjusted to the new key locations? I can see how they might no be, but if not, it would be nearly impossible to use for programming... though I suppose you could switch to Landscape mode for entering/editing programs, but run them in Portrait mode.

Sorry, I should have included screen captures of the program editor too.

Alan

Landscape is sooooo much better, isn't it?
03-04-2016, 02:04 AM
Post: #44
 Jlouis Senior Member Posts: 383 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?

C'mon landscapers, let's not give up so soon, vote for landscape!

They are beaten us with no mercy!!!!
03-04-2016, 02:14 AM
Post: #45
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 2,130 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 01:55 AM)striegel Wrote:  Sorry, I should have included screen captures of the program editor too.

Thanks for posting these Alan - and you're quite right, MUCH more readable.

So I presume these programs are simulating the 12C with new code, rather than emulating one and running the original ROM code? Have you tried some of the problems in the (original) 12C manual to see if the results match?

Wish there was an Android version to check out...

Thanks!

--Bob Prosperi
03-04-2016, 02:21 AM
Post: #46
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 2,130 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 01:58 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  That's why free42 is so fantastic.

It changes the 42s from portrait to landscape, just turn you smartphone or tablet.

Yes, I've had Free42 on my phone for years, so I'm used to the landscape version of this one. The touch-based interface is so different from using real keys, that I find I can use both landscape and portrait almost equally.

But having never seen a portrait 12C, it's hard to imagine how it feels.

--Bob Prosperi
03-04-2016, 07:43 AM
Post: #47
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,243 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 02:21 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(03-04-2016 01:58 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  That's why free42 is so fantastic.

It changes the 42s from portrait to landscape, just turn you smartphone or tablet.

Yes, I've had Free42 on my phone for years, so I'm used to the landscape version of this one. The touch-based interface is so different from using real keys, that I find I can use both landscape and portrait almost equally.

But having never seen a portrait 12C, it's hard to imagine how it feels.

So you don't have one of these, Bob?
And clamshell too!

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
03-04-2016, 07:48 AM
Post: #48
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,243 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 02:04 AM)Jlouis Wrote:

C'mon landscapers, let's not give up so soon, vote for landscape!

They are beaten us with no mercy!!!!

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
03-04-2016, 12:02 PM
Post: #49
 striegel Member Posts: 135 Joined: May 2015
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 02:14 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(03-04-2016 01:55 AM)striegel Wrote:  Sorry, I should have included screen captures of the program editor too.

Thanks for posting these Alan - and you're quite right, MUCH more readable.

So I presume these programs are simulating the 12C with new code, rather than emulating one and running the original ROM code? Have you tried some of the problems in the (original) 12C manual to see if the results match?

Wish there was an Android version to check out...

Thanks!
Quite right: these do not use any HP ROM (according to the developer). Running programs produce the same results as a real HP-12C. I've tested the 'Program to Structure Gross Pretax Lease Payments' from page 54 of the HP Leasing Applications Handbook and it matches completely.

What would be a really demanding test case?
03-04-2016, 03:59 PM
Post: #50
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 2,130 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 07:43 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  So you don't have one of these, Bob?

No, I've held off buying the cheap 12C clones - other than for reasons of being complete (from a collecting viewpoint) I've seen no reason to, but you're right this would be a way to explore a Portrait 12C.

Other than it's cheapness/feel, do you really prefer this over a real 12C?

--Bob Prosperi
03-04-2016, 04:05 PM
Post: #51
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 2,130 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 12:02 PM)striegel Wrote:  Quite right: these do not use any HP ROM (according to the developer). Running programs produce the same results as a real HP-12C. I've tested the 'Program to Structure Gross Pretax Lease Payments' from page 54 of the HP Leasing Applications Handbook and it matches completely.

What would be a really demanding test case?

For built-in functions, I believe solving for Interest (which is usually iterative) would involve the most internal calculations and thus reveal the propagation of rounding errors (errors meaning compared to a real 12C - it's possible this version is actually more accurate than a native 12C).

You could also build and run some simple programs that calculate in a large loop and compare with a real 12C. Also the ASIN(ACOS(ATAN(TAN(... test could reveal inaccuracies as well.

--Bob Prosperi
03-04-2016, 05:19 PM
Post: #52
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,243 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 03:59 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Other than it's cheapness/feel, do you really prefer this over a real 12C?

I don't even remember if I ever opened the blister pack... But I bet I would prefer a true 12C.

That picture's not mine.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
03-04-2016, 08:02 PM
Post: #53
 striegel Member Posts: 135 Joined: May 2015
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 04:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... compare with a real 12C. Also the ASIN(ACOS(ATAN(TAN(... test could reveal inaccuracies as well.

But since the HP-12C has no native scientific functions, this would make use of the program, "HP-12C Tried & Tricky Trigonometrics" by Valentin Albillo, right? Sounds like a fun exercise for the weekend.

Alan
03-04-2016, 08:18 PM
Post: #54
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 2,130 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 08:02 PM)striegel Wrote:
(03-04-2016 04:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... compare with a real 12C. Also the ASIN(ACOS(ATAN(TAN(... test could reveal inaccuracies as well.

But since the HP-12C has no native scientific functions, this would make use of the program, "HP-12C Tried & Tricky Trigonometrics" by Valentin Albillo, right? Sounds like a fun exercise for the weekend.

Alan

Ahem... Yes, why that is exactly what I meant...

No, in truth I clearly just typed that without any thinking, however doing this probably would reveal what you are looking for as this would exercise even more of the inner math modules than simple user functions, as one would use if the machine even had them.

The results should be revealing - and would be surprising to me if results were the same as a native 12C.

After doing this testing, you will also be much more familiar with the new keyboard layout!

--Bob Prosperi
03-04-2016, 09:32 PM
Post: #55
 anetzer Member Posts: 144 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-03-2016 06:38 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  Really, portrait unless it's landscape.

Makes me wonder whether we will ever see a certain book and whether it will cover the special problems in opening and refurbishing the diagonal ones...?

a.
03-04-2016, 09:40 PM
Post: #56
 anetzer Member Posts: 144 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 02:04 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  C'mon landscapers,

I have to admit one thing here:

I would sympathize with landscape, if the enter key would not have been rotated into the vertical in the relevant models.

It makes using the voyagers rather awkward if one has been socialized on a portrait model, no matter which.

Nota bene. I do not ask for a further choice along the lines of "Landscape but with horizontal 'Enter' key"...
03-04-2016, 10:48 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 10:55 PM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #57
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,393 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
Don't like square, maybe round is more your thing, but the triangle is interesting. Behold the best of both worlds!

Update:

03-04-2016, 11:23 PM
Post: #58
 Geir Isene Senior Member Posts: 388 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
03-04-2016, 11:33 PM
Post: #59
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,393 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait?
(03-04-2016 11:23 PM)Geir Isene Wrote:  Ask a thousand USD. I would buy it!

On Google Play for the Moto 360. The $700 savings can be sent to my PayPal account. 03-04-2016, 11:46 PM Post: #60  Geir Isene Senior Member Posts: 388 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Poll: Landscape or Portrait? (03-04-2016 11:33 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: (03-04-2016 11:23 PM)Geir Isene Wrote: Ask a thousand USD. I would buy it! On Google Play for the Moto 360. The$700 savings can be sent to my PayPal account.

Nah - I want it with real keys!
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