Post Reply 
A little survey
02-27-2016, 09:33 AM
Post: #1
A little survey
Hi all,

I think we've seen too few polls and surveys in last months on this forum. So please allow me to change it.

Especially to those of you who own or have read the WP 34S manual(s): What did (or do) you miss therein? Thinking about writing new manuals in future ... Please tell me what you want to see in it (or what you want to see shortened). Thanks in advance.

d:-)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-27-2016, 10:09 AM
Post: #2
RE: A little survey
A comprehensive index?


Pauli
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-27-2016, 11:17 AM
Post: #3
RE: A little survey
Halo, Walter,

These remarks are from my own experience and point of view, already expressed by me before in another threads.
Please understand that I'm not critizising your work in a negative way. On the contrary.

- a user guide is only needed fo two reasons:
You are an expert and just need to check a reference guide occasionally;
Or you need to learn on how to take advantage of the machine features and need to learn about it.

- as it s now, the user guide is more a reference guide than a user guide, and so it is oriented to the hp rpn old expert guys. A minority of people these days, really.
However, strangely for a ref. guide, it contains very basic stuff on RPN for the novices as well.

- so, in order to cover a broader audience and justify a new user guide, it should include all the missing information that is explained elsewhere in the HP manuals.
For instance, explain on how to use the integration.
And with examples.
In this way the potential new buyers may take advantage of the machine without having to be experts on other HP machines or having to get and read HP manuals.

- a final note: it is mentioned in the current manual that the wp34s is based on the 42s. This is inaccurate and misleading and should be removed. Unless a new wpXX machine is really implementing the 42s interface, that is.


Just my 2 cents.

Jose Mesquita
RadioMuseum.org member

Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-27-2016, 11:48 AM (This post was last modified: 02-27-2016 12:18 PM by walter b.)
Post: #4
RE: A little survey
Muito bom dia, Jose,

e obrigado pela sua response. No problems with critizising - people on this side of the great pond can stand critics for 2500 years, especially when they've asked for it. Wink So thanks for your feedback.

Do you know there is a separate little (62 page) text called 'WP 34S – MANUAL CALCULATION GUIDE' containing examples? Since the greater part of its content is copied from vintage HP calculator manuals, its available for free at xxx (pleas ask Bob (i.e. rprosperi) for the address, I'd have to search for it). After having read that, do you suggest implementing that (or something alike) into the Owner's Manual(s)?

And a question concerning your final remark:
(02-27-2016 11:17 AM)jebem Wrote:  ... it is mentioned in the current manual that the wp34s is based on the 42s. This is inaccurate and misleading and should be removed. Unless a new wpXX machine is really implementing the 42s interface, that is.

It may be inaccurate since we couldn't implement the data types and (hence) some matrix and complex functions of the 42S. This is clearly mentioned in the current manual. Beyond that I still think the WP 34S is based on the HP-42S - it is not a clone, however. Maybe I didn't unterstand what you meant by '42S interface' though. Will you tell me, please?

d:-?

Edit: Above address must be in this thread. Yeah, eventually found it in post #22. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-27-2016, 03:30 PM
Post: #5
RE: A little survey
(02-27-2016 11:48 AM)walter b Wrote:  Do you know there is a separate little (62 page) text called 'WP 34S – MANUAL CALCULATION GUIDE' containing examples? Since the greater part of its content is copied from vintage HP calculator manuals, its available for free at xxx (pleas ask Bob (i.e. rprosperi) for the address, I'd have to search for it). After having read that, do you suggest implementing that (or something alike) into the Owner's Manual(s)?

Don't get me wrong, despite I'm not a mathematician or scientist, I understand the great value packed in this WP-34S machine, considering the limitations of the HP-30B platform.

Yes, I have a copy of that good book of yours, Danke sehr! Smile
It is very helpful and I believe it could be inserted in the User guide, why not?

I'm sure the new potential WP-XXS calculator buyers/users that are not aware of the HP machines operation like the HP-15C and HP-42S will find it very useful as well.

I know this is asking too much, but inserting one single example for each one of the main WP-XXs functions, would be an excellent way to promote RPN in general and WP-XXs machines in particular.


(02-27-2016 11:48 AM)walter b Wrote:  And a question concerning your final remark:
(02-27-2016 11:17 AM)jebem Wrote:  ... it is mentioned in the current manual that the wp34s is based on the 42s. This is inaccurate and misleading and should be removed. Unless a new wpXX machine is really implementing the 42s interface, that is.
It may be inaccurate since we couldn't implement the data types and (hence) some matrix and complex functions of the 42S. This is clearly mentioned in the current manual. Beyond that I still think the WP 34S is based on the HP-42S - it is not a clone, however. Maybe I didn't understand what you meant by '42S interface' though. Will you tell me, please?

OK, I am probably wrong here, as I can't discuss the internal software implementation to know if it is closer to a HP-15C or to a HP-42S, or to any other platform for that matter.

But what I meant was that the HP-42S sports a number of functions/features that are not available on the WP-34S.

For instance, take the really, really excellent "HP-42S Programming Examples and Techniques Ed1 Jul-88" guide from HP that is available for free in a number of places in the Internet these days (they don't do user guides like this anymore, do they?) and try to do any of the Solver examples.

That's what I meant: Anyone initially ignorant of the WP-34S features reading the WP-34S user guide, may wrongly understand that it should be possible to do the same HP-42S features on a WP-34S.

I'm not complaining about the large and great function set sported by the WP-34S that, in my humble opinion, beats the HP-42S features in several aspects.
But the HP-42S friendly user interface with two full lines display and excellent software to handle the Solver (for instance), makes a big point in favor of the HP machine.

Let's wait and see what others with much more insight than me, have to say.

And please keep the good work!
I'm supporting the WP team where I can.

Jose Mesquita
RadioMuseum.org member

Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-27-2016, 10:29 PM
Post: #6
RE: A little survey
The WP34S manual is a very useful and necessary guide for a complex calculator. It is obviously made with the intention of perfection. But there are some improvements possible, which come into my mind. Perhaps only for my taste.

1.) The cover and page 1 shows the calculator cut in half. I dont like this image, I expect the complete calculator would give a better first impression.
2.) I like a table overview of all buttons and their printed functions right at the beginning before the first chapter, because the user wants to know the visible button functions at once.
3.) The explanation of button groups page 21-24 shows only the thoughts of the designers, old HP engineers did not mention their thoughts behind everything.
4.) The colors for the stack registers from signal green to yellow to signal red suggests to me the wrong association of: green is ok and red is alarm, especially on pages 36,37. I think a less aggressive color scheme or same color for all registers would be better.

My great respect for this comprehensive manual.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-28-2016, 10:21 AM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2016 08:52 PM by BarryMead.)
Post: #7
RE: A little survey
I have one suggestion regarding pages 300-304 of the manual. These pages describe how to modify the HP-30B using Harald Pott's USB board to add a micro USB interface to the calculator. Since this micro USB board is no-longer being sold by Harald Pott, I suggest that this section be modified to show how to add a 2.5mm headphone jack to the HP-30B as illustrated by Marcus Von Cube and myself on threads in this forum here and here. I have full resolution photos of this procedure if you want them to help illustrate the conversion process (The photos posted in the forum have been cropped and reduced in resolution to save space).
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-28-2016, 12:37 PM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2016 06:49 PM by emece67.)
Post: #8
RE: A little survey
(02-28-2016 10:21 AM)BarryMead Wrote:  ...

I suggest that this section be modified to show how to add a 2.5mm headphone jack to the HP-30B as illustrated by Marcus Von Cube and myself on threads in this forum.

...

This is the 1st notice I have of such a good idea. Really elegant and far better than the approach I was using (modified DIL socket over existing PCB contacts). Thanks Barry!

César - Information must flow.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-28-2016, 04:07 PM
Post: #9
RE: A little survey
Thanks, Barry, for your kind offer. I guess you know my email address, so please feel free to send me those pictures - I will mention you on page 2 of the next edition. Smile

d:-)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-28-2016, 04:38 PM
Post: #10
RE: A little survey
Thanks, Bernhard, for your feedback. Just a few quick remarks on your suggestions:
  1. De gustibus non est disputandum. Wink
  2. Will come though not on page 1 but at a nice place in Section 1.
  3. Old HP engineers mentioned such stuff in their ad sheets, at least for the Woodstocks. I was convinced by Karl Schneider's postings to do something like this.
  4. Same color for all registers would delete important information (look at Rv, for example).
Thanks again.

d:-)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-28-2016, 07:53 PM
Post: #11
RE: A little survey
(02-27-2016 10:09 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  A comprehensive index?

Can be done. Repeating the Table of Contents, however, doesn't make sense IMHO. Thus, an index will contain what's not directly findable using the TOC or the IOP. I don't know whether you'd call that 'comprehensive' still.

d:-?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-28-2016, 08:41 PM
Post: #12
RE: A little survey
(02-28-2016 07:53 PM)walter b Wrote:  Can be done. Repeating the Table of Contents, however, doesn't make sense IMHO. Thus, an index will contain what's not directly findable using the TOC or the IOP. I don't know whether you'd call that 'comprehensive' still.

Definitely not just repeating the table of contents, although having most of those entries in the index as well would save looking in two places. A start could be made by looking through the forums for questions which you answered "see page xxx". There would be more required to answer the questions that haven't yet been asked Smile


Pauli
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)