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[HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
11-21-2015, 05:08 PM (This post was last modified: 11-21-2015 07:15 PM by Marcio.)
Post: #1
[HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
Gents,

While trying to reallocate memory on the 15c Android emulator, I noticed the display will show some weird characters and will compute uu incorrectly when DIM(i) is set to 2:
Code:
1        64        0-0
2        57        0-0
3        5o        0-0
4        5-        0-0
5        5r        0-0
6        59        0-0
7        58        0-0

The Windows emulator does not have this problem, which was observed on both Android devices I own. I tried resetting it to no avail.


Many thanks.

Marcio
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11-22-2015, 03:38 PM
Post: #2
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-21-2015 05:08 PM)Marcio Wrote:  While trying to reallocate memory on the 15c Android emulator, I noticed the display will show some weird characters and will compute uu incorrectly when DIM(i) is set to 2:

Which Android Emulator are you using?

There are several in the Google Play Store.

Bill
WD9EQD
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11-22-2015, 03:39 PM
Post: #3
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
The one by HP.
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11-22-2015, 03:57 PM
Post: #4
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-22-2015 03:39 PM)Marcio Wrote:  The one by HP.

Okay. I'm not using any of the 15C emulators.

Maybe someone on the Forum can verify that they are seeing the same results with the HP Android Emulator.

Bill
Smithville, NJ
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11-22-2015, 04:28 PM
Post: #5
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
I have/use go15c, haven't noticed any problems so far.

Why pay € 19 for the HP version? go15c less than half the price & reliable.

Can't say I understand your problem.
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11-22-2015, 04:38 PM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2015 05:02 PM by Marcio.)
Post: #6
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-22-2015 04:28 PM)Gerald H Wrote:  I have/use go15c, haven't noticed any problems so far.
Why pay € 19 for the HP version? go15c less than half the price & reliable.

Well, the reason I purchased the 15C app from HP was that I thought it was as bug-free as the actual 15C. I mean no disrespect for those who build their own emulators but I prefer the ones made by experienced companies like HP as I can't afford mistakes at what I do.

Marcio
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11-22-2015, 05:23 PM
Post: #7
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-22-2015 04:38 PM)Marcio Wrote:  
(11-22-2015 04:28 PM)Gerald H Wrote:  I have/use go15c, haven't noticed any problems so far.
Why pay € 19 for the HP version? go15c less than half the price & reliable.

Well, the reason I purchased the 15C app from HP was that I thought it was as bug-free as the actual 15C. I mean no disrespect for those who build their own emulators but I prefer the ones made by experienced companies like HP as I can't afford mistakes at what I do.

Marcio

I don't see how the Lost Art Of Making Very Good Calculators would translate into the business of writing sloppy apps...

Greetings,
    Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
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11-22-2015, 06:17 PM
Post: #8
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-22-2015 04:38 PM)Marcio Wrote:  
(11-22-2015 04:28 PM)Gerald H Wrote:  I have/use go15c, haven't noticed any problems so far.
Why pay € 19 for the HP version? go15c less than half the price & reliable.

Well, the reason I purchased the 15C app from HP was that I thought it was as bug-free as the actual 15C. I mean no disrespect for those who build their own emulators but I prefer the ones made by experienced companies like HP as I can't afford mistakes at what I do.

Marcio


GO15C uses the ROM that is dumped from a real HP-15C. This can make it difficult for people to use this emulator if they don't have a dump of the ROM.

Does anyone know what the Emulator by HP uses? Is it the original ROM code or is it something else?

I prefer emulators that use the same ROM as my actual calculator. The lone exception is the Free 42S which is excellent.

Bill
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11-23-2015, 07:59 AM
Post: #9
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-22-2015 04:38 PM)Marcio Wrote:  
(11-22-2015 04:28 PM)Gerald H Wrote:  I have/use go15c, haven't noticed any problems so far.
Why pay € 19 for the HP version? go15c less than half the price & reliable.

Well, the reason I purchased the 15C app from HP was that I thought it was as bug-free as the actual 15C. I mean no disrespect for those who build their own emulators but I prefer the ones made by experienced companies like HP as I can't afford mistakes at what I do.

Marcio

HP is an evolving business, HP 1990 != HP 2015.

Recent evidence - 33S, 35S, 39gII, Prime, Prime App + ? - displays lack of care for quality of product.

As for amateurs: consider the Metakernel & 49G, produced by individuals really interested in the end product. Many problems with 49G, openly discussed & eventually mostly clarified. Do you trust the Prime?
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11-23-2015, 10:16 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 11:22 AM by Marcio.)
Post: #10
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
Gerald,

I understand.

Regarding the Go15c app you purchased, have you ever got it to run (root solving etc) for more than 10 seconds?

The HP-15C app will also crash on both devices if the operation demands time to finish. It either outputs the result immediately or crashes after 2 seconds or so.

Thank you.

PS: As for the question I raised in this thread, the amount of memory reallocated is correct despite the incorrect readings on the display.

Marcio
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11-23-2015, 10:49 AM
Post: #11
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
Yes, Marcio, I have used the go15c solver to solve the example on p 181 of User's Manual Ed 2.4, Sep 2011, requiring 13.83 sec. Solution was found correctly, no mis-functions.
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11-23-2015, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 11:17 AM by Marcio.)
Post: #12
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
Gerald,

Something is not right here. The example reported on page 181 shows how to solve \(x^2-3x-10=0\). The actual 15c (original, not LE) takes about 14.51 seconds the find the root with FIX 4. On both Android devices I have running HP-15c, the root is displayed immediately, no delay.
Maybe Go15c also emulates the speed of the real thing?

Thanks.

Marcio
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11-23-2015, 11:22 AM
Post: #13
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
To post #8:

Free42 is an excellent calculator in its own right.

Android go42s is a better emulator - the only deviation from original is in memory size & speed of calculation.
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11-23-2015, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 11:29 AM by Gerald H.)
Post: #14
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-23-2015 11:16 AM)Marcio Wrote:  Gerald,

Something is not right here. The example reported on page 181 shows how to solve \(x^2-3x-10=0\). The actual 15c (original, not LE) takes about 14.51 seconds the find the root with FIX 4. On both Android devices I have running HP-15c, the root is displayed immediately, no delay.
Maybe Go15c also emulates the speed of the real thing?

Thanks.

Marcio

go42s has settings of 1, 2, 4, 8 & 16 times true calculator speed, plus the setting Max speed.

I use 1 * original speed. In the example I quoted I used full accuracy, 10 digits.
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11-23-2015, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 11:37 AM by Marcio.)
Post: #15
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
The HP-15c app does not have this feature. As a matter of fact, I have never seen the display blink 'RUNNING'. It goes blank and either displays the result in less than 2 seconds or crashes.

Marcio
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11-23-2015, 11:47 AM
Post: #16
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
I have not tested the go15c solver extensively, have however not experienced any problems.

Can you post here one of the problems causing a crash?
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11-23-2015, 02:20 PM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 02:32 PM by Marcio.)
Post: #17
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
Well, I had never paid much attention to the crashes before because I usually use either the 50g or 15c to solve problems, the 50g when it requires more processing power or more memory for large matrix operations. Most recently, I purchased the app so I could run it on my phone and the 15c wouldn't have to leave my desk.

Straight to the point: Last night I was trying to solve this equation below (for V):
\[P = \frac{RT}{V-b}-\frac{a}{V(V+b)\sqrt{T}} \]
where
Code:
P = 56
T = 450
R = 0.08206
a = 85.6349
b = 0.0259

This is part of the subroutine I used:
Code:
LBL B
RCL 7         (b)
+
*
RCL 2         (T)
SQRT
*
RCL 6         (a)
/
1/x
CHS
x<>y
RCL 7         (b)
-
RCL 5         (R)
/
RCL 2         (T)
/
1/x
+
RCL 1         (P)
-
RTN


While the actual calculator struggled to find the root (which was my fault at first because I had not given it good guesses), the app crashed very shortly after it started the calculation.

The best guess is RT/P = 0.6594

If RT/P and 1.1 RT/P are used as guesses, there is a good chance the app will crash, as it has happened before a couple of times. BTW, the root is 0.5698 (86.41% of RT/P).

I also got it to run the benchmark test as posted here. The app ran for 8 minutes, froze and then crashed.

Marcio
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11-23-2015, 03:59 PM
Post: #18
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-23-2015 02:20 PM)Marcio Wrote:  Well, I had never paid much attention to the crashes before because I usually use either the 50g or 15c to solve problems, the 50g when it requires more processing power or more memory for large matrix operations. Most recently, I purchased the app so I could run it on my phone and the 15c wouldn't have to leave my desk.

Straight to the point: Last night I was trying to solve this equation below (for V):
\[P = \frac{RT}{V-b}-\frac{a}{V(V+b)\sqrt{T}} \]

...

While the actual calculator struggled to find the root (which was my fault at first because I had not given it good guesses), the app crashed very shortly after it started the calculation.

...

I also got it to run the benchmark test as posted here. The app ran for 8 minutes, froze and then crashed.

Checked this problem with go15c in my Android phone. It does not crash, but can report error 0/8 depending on initial guesses. With good guesses it arrives to the right solution. It takes a while (speed x1) or instantaneously (speed max).

The N-Queens bechmark also works, this time up to 128x speed. I see no point in using the HP app when you can use the goxx series of apps. Way better IMHO.

Regards.

César - Information must flow.
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11-23-2015, 07:58 PM
Post: #19
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
It seems the HP-15C Android app by HP is not very popular among users of these forums, huh?

I do agree it's overpriced and the fact that much cheaper apps are bug-free is not very easy to understand (for me at least). Even the size of the non-HP apps are way smaller.

Oh well. Thank you all for your inputs.

Marcio
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11-23-2015, 09:31 PM
Post: #20
RE: [HP-15C] Android version display weird behaviour?
(11-23-2015 07:58 PM)Marcio Wrote:  Even the size of the non-HP apps are way smaller.

Usually because they don't ship documentation I think.

TW

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
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