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News from Swissmicros!
09-18-2015, 10:07 PM
Post: #21
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-18-2015 05:43 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  
(09-18-2015 04:24 PM)Namir Wrote:  Dave,

You should be able to convert it to an HP-16, HP12C, or HP-11C.

Namir

A 10C or, maybe, even a 41C.

Will this do?

Regards, BrickViking
HP-50g |Casio fx-9750G+ |Casio fx-9750GII (SH4a)
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09-18-2015, 10:46 PM
Post: #22
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-18-2015 10:07 PM)brickviking Wrote:  
(09-18-2015 05:43 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  
(09-18-2015 04:24 PM)Namir Wrote:  You should be able to convert it to an HP-16, HP12C, or HP-11C.
A 10C or, maybe, even a 41C.
Will this do?

Thank you all for your suggestions, but I converted/flashed my DM-15 with the DM-16 and DM-41 firmware a long time ago.

My post,
(09-18-2015 03:04 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  
(09-18-2015 11:26 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  Holy crap. Anxiously awaiting a 16C...
In the mean time, flash it with the 16C firmware and make an overlay.
was in response to Dave Britten's comment. Smile

Dave
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09-18-2015, 11:01 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2015 11:03 PM by Massimo Gnerucci.)
Post: #23
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-18-2015 10:07 PM)brickviking Wrote:  
(09-18-2015 05:43 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  A 10C or, maybe, even a 41C.

Will this do?

Of course it does, it's already in front of me right now, thanks.
What I am waiting for is an (almost) real size 41C portrait clone with real buttons.

I was referring to the possibility to flash this DM15L with a 10C or 41C ROM.

Greetings,
    Massimo

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09-19-2015, 07:33 AM
Post: #24
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-18-2015 08:58 AM)jebem Wrote:  On a more positive note, if Swissmicros can do it, why on earth is so hard to get the vapourware 43S hardware built in the same way and cost?

Feel free to offer your time and expertise to help produce the 43S hardware.
It's obviously an easy task.....


- Pauli
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09-19-2015, 08:29 AM
Post: #25
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-18-2015 08:58 AM)jebem Wrote:  On a more positive note, if Swissmicros can do it, why on earth is so hard to get the vapourware 43S hardware built in the same way and cost?
Maybe it is easier and more tempting to stea..., erm reproduce a given design with a known large target audience.
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09-19-2015, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 09-19-2015 08:31 AM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #26
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-19-2015 07:33 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  
(09-18-2015 08:58 AM)jebem Wrote:  On a more positive note, if Swissmicros can do it, why on earth is so hard to get the vapourware 43S hardware built in the same way and cost?

Feel free to offer your time and expertise to help produce the 43S hardware.
It's obviously an easy task.....

- Pauli

If I may comment, I didn't get the impression that jebem was being disrespectful to the 43S design team, but just wondering if some kind of "shortcut" could be used to boost its production.

On the other hand, there are obvious compromises made in this new 15C version by swissmicros that may not be desirable. It's hard to say just by looking at the pics, but I'm sure some folks will provide feedback as they start receiving their units...

Cheers,
'AM
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09-19-2015, 12:58 PM
Post: #27
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-18-2015 11:26 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  Holy crap. Anxiously awaiting a 16C...

42S would make my day
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09-19-2015, 03:56 PM
Post: #28
RE: News from Swissmicros!
A 42s version would be perfect for my needs/wants if the keyboard feel is good!
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09-19-2015, 05:19 PM
Post: #29
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-19-2015 03:56 PM)Dan B Wrote:  A 42s version would be perfect for my needs/wants if the keyboard feel is good!

Of course, the keyboard is the difference between HP and those mushy casio and TI products (early TI gear excluded)
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09-19-2015, 05:41 PM
Post: #30
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-19-2015 03:56 PM)Dan B Wrote:  A 42s version would be perfect for my needs/wants if the keyboard feel is good!

+1

What I have heard there are no plans for a 42S, but maybe for a 34S.
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09-19-2015, 06:30 PM
Post: #31
RE: News from Swissmicros!
The pixel-based LCD appears to be much larger than what's used up for the single-line display. Is the remainder of the display area only used for the annunciators, or are there other uses as well?

I guess it could be put to good use displaying the contents of the Y register...

Greetings,

Matthias


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09-19-2015, 06:57 PM
Post: #32
RE: News from Swissmicros!
Oops he did it again! SwissMicros is going to empty my banking account ;-)
Anyway, I ordered one. I'm very curious about the new buttons.
Thank you, Michael, for keeping us busy with all this great little gadgets.
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09-20-2015, 06:13 PM
Post: #33
RE: News from Swissmicros!
I ordered one also.

Seeing more of the stack, via a two line display, would be cool, as Matthias suggests. I guess the original 15C ROM code would have to be broken into and quite heavily re-engineeered to achieve this - a bigger job than just getting the original version to run, as is, on an emulation layer.
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09-20-2015, 08:12 PM (This post was last modified: 09-20-2015 08:14 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #34
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-20-2015 06:13 PM)Chasfield Wrote:  Seeing more of the stack, via a two line display, would be cool, as Matthias suggests. I guess the original 15C ROM code would have to be broken into and quite heavily re-engineeered to achieve this - a bigger job than just getting the original version to run, as is, on an emulation layer.
While I have no direct insight into their implementation, I don't think it would be very difficult. After all, the Y register of the emulated machine must be stored somewhere in the microcontrollers RAM. I assume that it is quite easy to find out where it resides, even if the emulated code isn't fully understood. Once this location is known, it could be read out periodically (or at certain events) from outside the emulator's domain (that is by the operating system or driver layer underneath the emulator). The numeric contents could then be decoded and translated into whatever representation is necessary to display it on the pixel display. Just reading out the Y register at random times in a concurrent process might cause some temporary garbage to be displayed if the multi-byte register is read out at the same time as it is being updated by the emulated machine, but I'm quite sure that the emulator provides enough state-information to let the read out happen in a mutex and only when appropriate. In fact, it is possible, that a similar technique is used already in order to retrieve and translate the X register value.

Greetings,

Matthias


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09-21-2015, 12:30 PM
Post: #35
RE: News from Swissmicros!
Hi, guys,

I have contacted SwissMicros concerning this keyboard subject (how hard it is to get one custom made keyboard at an affordable cost for a hypothetical calculator project).
Here is the (authorized) answer from Michel from SwissMicros:
Quote:Hello Jose,

our new calculator has a single plastic part which required a mold of two parts. We designed the plastic part in a 3D modeling software, based on that the producer made a 3D model for the mold.
The cost for the mold was about USD7000.
Usually it doesn't make sense to produce less than 1000pcs. The setup-cost for each run is equal to several hundred units.
What are real keys? Our calculator has a PCB with contact areas for the domes under the keys.

I'm not sure this is of any help for you.

Best regards,
Michael Steinmann

And I believe that it is possible to get lower prices nowadays in the far east, even for smaller production batches.

Jose Mesquita
RadioMuseum.org member

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09-21-2015, 12:37 PM (This post was last modified: 09-21-2015 12:39 PM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #36
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-20-2015 08:12 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  
(09-20-2015 06:13 PM)Chasfield Wrote:  Seeing more of the stack, via a two line display, would be cool, as Matthias suggests. I guess the original 15C ROM code would have to be broken into and quite heavily re-engineeered to achieve this - a bigger job than just getting the original version to run, as is, on an emulation layer.
While I have no direct insight into their implementation, I don't think it would be very difficult. After all, the Y register of the emulated machine must be stored somewhere in the microcontrollers RAM. I assume that it is quite easy to find out where it resides, even if the emulated code isn't fully understood. Once this location is known, it could be read out periodically (or at certain events) from outside the emulator's domain (that is by the operating system or driver layer underneath the emulator). The numeric contents could then be decoded and translated into whatever representation is necessary to display it on the pixel display. Just reading out the Y register at random times in a concurrent process might cause some temporary garbage to be displayed if the multi-byte register is read out at the same time as it is being updated by the emulated machine, but I'm quite sure that the emulator provides enough state-information to let the read out happen in a mutex and only when appropriate. In fact, it is possible, that a similar technique is used already in order to retrieve and translate the X register value.
Matthias

So here's a completely unqualified, unauthorized, unrequested and unconfirmable (the last two words I just made up) opinion to the above:

as long as there's something akin to DSPCRG in the 15C ROM there should be possible, but even in that case it'll require scalpo MCODE surgery beyond the "dump & go" approach...

BTW, I did *not* place an order for this new machine so I guess you can say this is as impartial an opinion as it gets nowadays.
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09-21-2015, 02:30 PM
Post: #37
RE: News from Swissmicros!
I'd like to try to stop this hypothetical "scalpo MCODE surgery" before someone gets hurt.
1st: the original HP-15C had no two lines stack display like the HP-42S. Anyway the demand was "bring back the 15C" and not "bring back the 42S".
2nd: with a fixed 4 level stack you may easily have a quick look to X, Y, Z, and T by pressing RDN 4 times. If you are only interested in X and Y, just use X<>Y twice. Usualy a typical UPN user can cope with it.
3rd: even with this hint, if you still do need a two lines dispaly, do not use an HP-15C or similar machine, go for an HP-42S or HP-50G or younameit.

Simulations (and emulators) are the "poor man's hardware". So it is quite normal that desire grows in this land of plenty. I am pretty sure there are simulations for smart phones and iPups that show the stack as a sidekick. Similar I did with my "Voyager firmware interpreter" (running under VM/CMS) for the contained program. Annoyed by this single line of nonreadable key row-column codes I display it complete in a scrollable window transliterated to HP41 mnemonics. (Of cause no need to change the firmware.)

Ciao.....Mike
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09-21-2015, 04:55 PM
Post: #38
RE: News from Swissmicros!
(09-21-2015 02:30 PM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  Anyway the demand was "bring back the 15C" and not "bring back the 42S".

This was probably a concession to reality since the 12C is still in production.
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09-21-2015, 05:05 PM
Post: #39
RE: News from Swissmicros!
I don't want a flamewar, and sorry Swissmicros - you're a really genius, but why don't you prefer this version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Ef97h9...A&index=58

KINOMI - everithing is in one original HP CASE with original KEYS, you need only remember few keyboard layout... Maybe this is not a big issue - I was a kid, when we wrote our programs in hexdump - this is only few keys... Wink

Csaba
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09-21-2015, 07:58 PM
Post: #40
RE: News from Swissmicros!
I just couldn't resist. That makes TWO SwissMicros that I ordered this year.

I suspect I will be making some keyboard overlays soon too...
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