Poll: Which way do you want to let the calculator be bootstrapped? (Explanations in OP)
A)
B)
C)
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Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
01-06-2015, 06:57 AM
Post: #1
Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
The landscape alphanumeric RPN thread stalled with pleas to bootstrap the calculator (specifically one with original firmware) rather than make it directly by Bill and me made with full awareness that such ideas could/would outrage many people. But leaving it indefinitely as vaporware does nobody any good. So what we are to do is let it be that someone undertakes to bootstrap it in one of three ways.
A) emulate the proposed firmware on mobile phone/tablet/computer
B) remake an existing calculator with landscape hardware (minor modifications permitted)
C) combine A and B (perhaps be daring enough to trick a TI-92/TI Voyage 200 into operating in RPN—makes more sense in my opinion than programming an HP 67/97 to use algebraic logic but don't tell the Jim Horn who wrote the program at http://www.rskey.org/gene/calcmuseum/67aos.htm)
Being serious, which way do you agree with most?[/code]
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01-06-2015, 07:34 AM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2015 07:35 AM by Didier Lachieze.)
Post: #2
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
I've voted for A as I think it's the simplest and fastest way to bring your ideas to life, but I have already on my Android phone a working landscape alphanumeric RPN calculator, and a very good one: Free42 !

[Image: a0nhbc]

I would be interested to know what you plan to do differently/better.
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01-06-2015, 08:57 PM
Post: #3
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
Option A is a good start.
Using something like PhoneGap, you can create HTML-based screen layouts. For those demanding a particular keypad layout, this allows you to play with positions and customise.
It also allows you to do things you might not want in the real model, ie. custom keys (do you really want a touch screen on a physical calculator?).

Other benefits involve things that would be mighty hard to implement on a physical machine. Imagine pressing the function key - and suddenly, ALL main text on keys gets "swapped" with the secondary function text. [The only way I can think of doing this on a physical board requires backlighting LEDs, and sheets of Perspex acting as "optic pipes"]
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01-06-2015, 11:32 PM
Post: #4
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-06-2015 07:34 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  I've voted for A as I think it's the simplest and fastest way to bring your ideas to life, but I have already on my Android phone a working landscape alphanumeric RPN calculator, and a very good one: Free42 !

[Image: a0nhbc]

I would be interested to know what you plan to do differently/better.

Didier - Cool, where is that skin from? I've not seen it before and would like to try a landscape 42S, as apocryphal as that sounds...

Do you have a link and/or suggested procedure to install it?

TIA.

--Bob Prosperi
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01-07-2015, 12:07 AM
Post: #5
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-06-2015 11:32 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Didier - Cool, where is that skin from? I've not seen it before and would like to try a landscape 42S, as apocryphal as that sounds...

Do you have a link and/or suggested procedure to install it?

TIA.

I was wondering the same, but I found how to do it.

Go to Free42s web site:

Free42S

Scroll down the page to Additional Downloads and download the Skins for Android. Copy them to the Android Tablet. Rotate the Table to the Landscape mode and then bring up the menu, select More, and then Skin:other. Navigate to the location where you saved the skins and then select "Type_H.layout.

I'm glad I played around with this. I never realized that you could select different skins for Portrait versus Landscape. Free42S just gets better and better.

Bill
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01-07-2015, 01:05 AM
Post: #6
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
Oh, good heavens, don't use the HP-67 AOS program! It was done to prove it was possible but it's impossibly slow. I just wanted to see that a full ~13 level parenthesis implementation could be done on the '67. With its limited speed and memory, the results work but could take many seconds per key press.

I do second the suggestion to work with Free42 or the WP-34S simulators. That way you can concentrate on key labeling and use rather than the heavier duty work of actual functions, most user interaction, etc.

Best to you!
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01-07-2015, 01:38 AM
Post: #7
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-07-2015 12:07 AM)Bill (Smithville NJ) Wrote:  Scroll down the page to Additional Downloads and download the Skins for Android. Copy them to the Android Tablet. Rotate the Table to the Landscape mode and then bring up the menu, select More, and then Skin:other. Navigate to the location where you saved the skins and then select "Type_H.layout.

I'm glad I played around with this. I never realized that you could select different skins for Portrait versus Landscape. Free42S just gets better and better.

Bill

Thanks Bill!! I went to the Free42S site and did the same thing earlier before posting, but when I looked at the list of skins, they all appeared to be device-specific, so I bailed out there. Glad you were more diligent and tried the Type_H layout.

And it even auto-switches between layouts when the device rotates.

Cool!

Digit keys seem spaced better (bigger), but it could just be because it looks new this way.

Thanks guys, it's like getting a new calculator for free.

--Bob Prosperi
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01-07-2015, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2015 12:18 PM by sa-penguin.)
Post: #8
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-07-2015 12:07 AM)Bill (Smithville NJ) Wrote:  Go to Free42s web site:
Free42S

Scroll down the page to Additional Downloads and download the Skins for Android. Copy them to the Android Tablet. Rotate the Table to the Landscape mode and then bring up the menu, select More, and then Skin:other. Navigate to the location where you saved the skins and then select "Type_H.layout.

I'm glad I played around with this. I never realized that you could select different skins for Portrait versus Landscape. Free42S just gets better and better.
For those like me, with an Ipad or Iphone:
1. The screen layout is not present in the iPhone .zip file.
2. If you import the layout files anyway, the Ipad does not "switch" to landscape mode. [Landscape support is on the "To Do" list]
3. This leaves you with just the left half of the calculator visible on your device : (

What's the rock-bottom cheapest compatible Android tablet?
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01-07-2015, 01:59 PM
Post: #9
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
Quote:What's the rock-bottom cheapest compatible Android tablet?

I would NEVER recommend the "cheapest" Android tablet. While there are lots of cheap Android tablets, they are usually of pretty poor performance and you would most likely not be satisfied - especially since you are used to iPhone/ipad products. Steer clear of those really cheap off-brand "Android" tablets that seem to be everywhere today.

I highly recommend the Google Nexus 7 tablet. It's reasonably priced and will give you the true Android experience without the manufacturer adding his own layer/skin over the operating system. You might be able to save some money if you can find a used Nexus. Since it is Google, you get the latest version of the Operating System.

Likewise, a used Android cell phone from someone who has upgraded will work. Just make sure it had a replaceable battery so you can put a new battery in it since most used phones already have 2 years of heavy use on them.

Free42s will run on almost any of the Android OS from Gingerbread (2.3) up. I use my old DroidX phone in airplane mode. It has a replaceable battery which I installed with the high capacity battery.

Bill
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01-07-2015, 05:37 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2015 03:43 AM by Joseph_21sv.)
Post: #10
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-06-2015 07:34 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  I've voted for A as I think it's the simplest and fastest way to bring your ideas to life, but I have already on my Android phone a working landscape alphanumeric RPN calculator, and a very good one: Free42 !

[Image: a0nhbc]

I would be interested to know what you plan to do differently/better.

Free42 is an obvious candidate for porting to real hardware, all you need is to find someone to 3D print the calculator body and ROM to burn it into and RAM to store user data and a microcontroller to run the machine. With the deflation of computer memory cost since 1995, a calculator which would sell for 120 1988 dollars, would have almost four times the memory capacity of the original HP 42S, if no more. Assuming the quadruple RAM hack is still going to be possible, you get ca. 32 1/3% of the proposed memory space of the WP 43S potentially available. Speaking of the WP 43S, isn’t its target production price slated to be close to 120 1988 dollars looking from the perspective of total market value of the proposed production run anyway? Not to detract from Free42, but to sell it in a physical housing at an essentially equal price to a machine so vastly superior to itself as the proposed WP 43S—never mind that the two will not be in the same orientation—should not but inadvertently kill this plan. And inadvertently killing it means we start back at square one with the bootstrapping stage of this project.

(01-06-2015 08:57 PM)sa-penguin Wrote:  Option A is a good start.
Using something like PhoneGap, you can create HTML-based screen layouts. For those demanding a particular keypad layout, this allows you to play with positions and customise.
It also allows you to do things you might not want in the real model, ie. custom keys (do you really want a touch screen on a physical calculator?).

Other benefits involve things that would be mighty hard to implement on a physical machine. Imagine pressing the function key - and suddenly, ALL main text on keys gets "swapped" with the secondary function text. [The only way I can think of doing this on a physical board requires backlighting LEDs, and sheets of Perspex acting as "optic pipes"]

Somebody did really want a touch screen on a real calculator four times: the little known Sharp ÉL-9600 series, the Casio ClassPad series and the HP Prime and never-produced HP Xpander have one.

Have you read of LCD and OLED keyboards? [the only way you can think of—I almost hate to say it—looks like making life hard for yourself by comparison to these]

(01-07-2015 01:05 AM)Jim Horn Wrote:  Oh, good heavens, don't use the HP-67 AOS program! It was done to prove it was possible but it's impossibly slow. I just wanted to see that a full ~13 level parenthesis implementation could be done on the '67. With its limited speed and memory, the results work but could take many seconds per key press.

I do second the suggestion to work with Free42 or the WP-34S simulators. That way you can concentrate on key labeling and use rather than the heavier duty work of actual functions, most user interaction, etc.

Best to you!

Of course not on the original ’67, especially now that that would be ridiculously anachronistic anyway. However, a landscape hardware emulator of it with a modern CPU and an alphanumeric red OLED display would run that program so much faster and also be able to display the program steps as mnemonics and display the algebraic expressions as the user enters them in.
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02-03-2015, 07:51 AM
Post: #11
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-07-2015 01:59 PM)Bill (Smithville NJ) Wrote:  
Quote:What's the rock-bottom cheapest compatible Android tablet?

I highly recommend the Google Nexus 7 tablet. It's reasonably priced ...

On your advice I bought a Nexus 7. Good call - I'm liking it a lot. Still learning how to drive it, while my older iPad sulks in a corner gathering dust.

First app I installed was Free42, then I had to find these emails to remember how to install a landscape skin.
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02-24-2015, 11:38 PM
Post: #12
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(01-06-2015 07:34 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  I've voted for A as I think it's the simplest and fastest way to bring your ideas to life, but I have already on my Android phone a working landscape alphanumeric RPN calculator, and a very good one: Free42 !

[Image: a0nhbc]

I would be interested to know what you plan to do differently/better.

Jeezzz, How can I make my android free42 look like that?

This is heaven, a 42s in landscape just like a voyager!

I desperately need this!

TIA
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02-24-2015, 11:45 PM
Post: #13
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(02-24-2015 11:38 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  Jeezzz, How can I make my android free42 look like that?

This is heaven, a 42s in landscape just like a voyager!

I desperately need this!

TIA

If you had read all the posts in this thread, you would have read my Post No. 5 which tells how to achieve landscape Free 42S in Android.

It pays to carefully read all the posts in the thread.

Bill
Smithville, NJ
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02-24-2015, 11:45 PM
Post: #14
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(02-24-2015 11:38 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  
(01-06-2015 07:34 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  I've voted for A as I think it's the simplest and fastest way to bring your ideas to life, but I have already on my Android phone a working landscape alphanumeric RPN calculator, and a very good one: Free42 !

[Image: a0nhbc]

I would be interested to know what you plan to do differently/better.

Jeezzz, How can I make my android free42 look like that?

This is heaven, a 42s in landscape just like a voyager!

I desperately need this!

TIA

Read the posts near the top of this thread JLouis; they explain how to do this, it's simple; 2 minutes and your done.

--Bob Prosperi
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02-25-2015, 01:06 AM (This post was last modified: 02-25-2015 01:09 AM by Jlouis.)
Post: #15
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(02-24-2015 11:45 PM)Bill (Smithville NJ) Wrote:  
(02-24-2015 11:38 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  Jeezzz, How can I make my android free42 look like that?

This is heaven, a 42s in landscape just like a voyager!

I desperately need this!

TIA

If you had read all the posts in this thread, you would have read my Post No. 5 which tells how to achieve landscape Free 42S in Android.

It pays to carefully read all the posts in the thread.

Bill
Smithville, NJ
9

Sorry for that Bill.

I was so excited when I Saw the picture that I jumped to ask how could get that.

Thanks to point me out this

Cheers
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02-25-2015, 01:11 AM (This post was last modified: 02-25-2015 01:26 AM by Jlouis.)
Post: #16
RE: Bootstrapping landscape alphanumeric RPN
(02-24-2015 11:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  
(02-24-2015 11:38 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  Jeezzz, How can I make my android free42 look like that?

This is heaven, a 42s in landscape just like a voyager!

I desperately need this!

TIA

Read the posts near the top of this thread JLouis; they explain how to do this, it's simple; 2 minutes and your done.

Thanks Bob.

Edit: I Just downloaded the skins pack according to the instructions and I am amazed. I will have some fun now, good night and thanks again..
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