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HP program forms
12-21-2014, 05:56 PM
Post: #21
RE: HP program forms
(12-14-2014 09:24 PM)Dieter Wrote:  ... which program forms have been available by ... other sources ... is there been a version for ... ?-)

My adaptation of a formerly commercially available form
[attachment=1331]

enjoy!

SlideRule
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12-22-2014, 03:46 AM (This post was last modified: 11-25-2015 01:41 PM by Sylvain Cote.)
Post: #22
RE: HP program forms
(12-16-2014 08:49 PM)Dieter Wrote:  This solution will of course preserve the "vintage look" of these forms as well as possible. But wouldn't it be easier to generate new forms (with the same design) from scratch? Most decent word processors should be able to do this, let alone dedicated layout software.

Dieter

Hello Dieter,

I have made a prototype pdf form over a HP-35 Key Sequence Form.
There is a watermark under it because I used an evaluation software to make it.

If you think it is something you can use, then I will buy the software
and redo the job so that everything align correctly.

The forms ...
HP-35 Key Sequence Empty form
HP-35 Key Sequence Filled form

Best regards,

Sylvain

[edit: link updated]
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12-22-2014, 08:02 PM
Post: #23
RE: HP program forms
(12-22-2014 03:46 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I have made a prototype pdf form over a HP-35 Key Sequence Form.
There is a watermark under it because I used an evaluation software to make it.

Works great - thank you very much. Some tweaking for proper alignment (especially in the boxes for the keys) may be required, but apart from that all seems to work very nicely.

I wonder if a different font may be useful here and there. For instance for program listings something non-proportional may more suitable. There are even fonts that duplicate HP keyboard labels or printer output. No, I'm just kidding. Although... ;-)))

(12-22-2014 03:46 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  If you think it is something you can use, then I will buy the software
and redo the job so that everything align correctly.

I hope you will not buy that software just for this purpose. ;-)

Dieter
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12-31-2014, 06:35 PM
Post: #24
RE: HP program forms
An oldie but ???

[attachment=1380]

BEST!

SlideRule
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01-03-2015, 12:05 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2015 12:05 AM by Namir.)
Post: #25
RE: HP program forms
(12-31-2014 06:35 PM)SlideRule Wrote:  An oldie but ???



BEST!

SlideRule

You have a form for the HP9825?

Thanks,

Namir
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01-03-2015, 03:45 PM
Post: #26
RE: HP program forms
(01-03-2015 12:05 AM)Namir Wrote:   You have a form for the HP9825? Namir

Unfortunately, at hand - No ... but I'll look deeper into my archives.

SlideRule
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01-03-2015, 06:51 PM
Post: #27
RE: HP program forms
I second Namirs request!
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02-02-2015, 01:17 AM
Post: #28
RE: HP program forms
(12-22-2014 08:02 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Works great - thank you very much. Some tweaking for proper alignment (especially in the boxes for the keys) may be required, but apart from that all seems to work very nicely.

I have completely redone the form and the fields should now be perfectly aligned.

(12-22-2014 08:02 PM)Dieter Wrote:  I wonder if a different font may be useful here and there. For instance for program listings something non-proportional may more suitable. There are even fonts that duplicate HP keyboard labels or printer output. No, I'm just kidding. Although... ;-)))

I have used Helvetica Light 10pt for the top portion of the page. (date, page, routine, author & description)
I have used Courrier New 10pt for the bottom portion of the page. (line, data, operations, display & remarks)

(12-22-2014 08:02 PM)Dieter Wrote:  I hope you will not buy that software just for this purpose. ;-)

Yep! I had to buy the software for this purpose and unfortunately just after the Canadian iTune price hike. :-(

At least, the good side of it, is that the software works very well, very easy to create forms
and does not crash all the time like a lots of OSX PDF editing softwares that I have tried.

So, better late then never, here is the first of many calculator forms coming this way ...

HP-35 Key Sequence Form

Please try it and give me your comments.

Best regards,

Sylvain
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02-02-2015, 09:52 PM
Post: #29
RE: HP program forms
(02-02-2015 01:17 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Yep! I had to buy the software for this purpose and unfortunately just after the Canadian iTune price hike. :-(

But I hope you do not use it exclusively for redesigned HP program forms, do you?

(02-02-2015 01:17 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  So, better late then never, here is the first of many calculator forms coming this way ...
HP-35 Key Sequence Form
Please try it and give me your comments.

Great - thank you again for your effort. This is what I discovered:
  • The program form deserves a higher resolution scan. It's fine if displayed in 100% size, but if it fills the screen the text looks unsharp. I did a screenshot and applied a substantial amount of sharpening – looks much better. Also the imperfections of the original form (kinks/bends) could be removed.
  • The form fields still are a bit low, at least in my Foxit reader. This is especially true for the fiels on top of the page, i.e. Date, Page, Routine and Author, they are about half a line low. The fields for the keys ("Operations") are slightly low, so that characters like a lowercase g or p touch the lower border of their box.
Otherwise everything really looks fine. :-)

Dieter
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02-02-2015, 11:09 PM
Post: #30
RE: HP program forms
(02-02-2015 09:52 PM)Dieter Wrote:  But I hope you do not use it exclusively for redesigned HP program forms, do you?

Pretty much, I just need to do a lot of HP forms to have a better usage cost ratio ;-)

(02-02-2015 09:52 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Great - thank you again for your effort. This is what I discovered:
  • The program form deserves a higher resolution scan. It's fine if displayed in 100% size, but if it fills the screen the text looks unsharp. I did a screenshot and applied a substantial amount of sharpening – looks much better. Also the imperfections of the original form (kinks/bends) could be removed.
  • The form fields still are a bit low, at least in my Foxit reader. This is especially true for the fiels on top of the page, i.e. Date, Page, Routine and Author, they are about half a line low. The fields for the keys ("Operations") are slightly low, so that characters like a lowercase g or p touch the lower border of their box.
Otherwise everything really looks fine. :-)

Thank you for your great comments.
I will do a higher resolution scan but I am afraid the result will not be accepted in the next museum usb key because of the file size, will see ...
Could you please fill the form, take a screen capture and send the image to me I would like to see what you are seeing on your side.
I am doing the editing/testing on a MBP running OSX Yosemite and it look good on my side, so at this point I will assume that it's a platform thing and would have to test it using Foxit on Windows inside a VM.
I will come back with a new version tonight or tomorrow night.

Best regards,

Sylvain
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02-03-2015, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 08:53 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #31
RE: HP program forms
(02-02-2015 11:09 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Could you please fill the form, take a screen capture and send the image to me I would like to see what you are seeing on your side.

Sure – I just filled the form and I'll send a PM through the forum in a few minutes.

EDIT: at least that's what I tried. I could not find a way to add attachments to a Private Message. How can this be done?

(02-02-2015 11:09 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I am doing the editing/testing on a MBP running OSX Yosemite and it look good on my side, so at this point I will assume that it's a platform thing and would have to test it using Foxit on Windows inside a VM.

Yes, this may be an OS issue or just one of the limits of PDFs in general.

Dieter
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02-04-2015, 05:01 AM
Post: #32
RE: HP program forms
(02-03-2015 08:41 PM)Dieter Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 11:09 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Could you please fill the form, take a screen capture and send the image to me I would like to see what you are seeing on your side.

Sure – I just filled the form and I'll send a PM through the forum in a few minutes.

EDIT: at least that's what I tried. I could not find a way to add attachments to a Private Message. How can this be done?

I have sent you a PM with my email where you can sent it.

(02-03-2015 08:41 PM)Dieter Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 11:09 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I am doing the editing/testing on a MBP running OSX Yosemite and it look good on my side, so at this point I will assume that it's a platform thing and would have to test it using Foxit on Windows inside a VM.
Yes, this may be an OS issue or just one of the limits of PDFs in general.

I have installed Foxit on a Win 7 Pro Inside Parallels and to my surprise
Foxit does not respect the fonts that I have specified in the PDF, also it
systematically lower the form fields enough to be a nuisance.

I need to do some experimentation before redoing the form.
It will take a couple of days before I can come back with a new one.
I have other stuff (not HP) to take care of, I'll be back soon.

Sylvain
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02-04-2015, 06:48 AM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2015 07:21 AM by Dieter.)
Post: #33
RE: HP program forms
(02-04-2015 05:01 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I have sent you a PM with my email where you can sent it.

Fine. I just sent two screenshots.

(02-04-2015 05:01 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I have installed Foxit on a Win 7 Pro Inside Parallels and to my surprise
Foxit does not respect the fonts that I have specified in the PDF, also it
systematically lower the form fields enough to be a nuisance.

That seems to be exactly what I see here. Now the question is whether this is an issue with Foxit Reader, or with the software creating the forms, or with the PDF standard not allowing sufficientily exact alignment.

(02-04-2015 05:01 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I need to do some experimentation before redoing the form.
It will take a couple of days before I can come back with a new one.
I have other stuff (not HP) to take care of, I'll be back soon.

Take your time. Experimentation seems to be the only way to resolve this. #-)

Dieter
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02-04-2015, 01:45 PM
Post: #34
RE: HP program forms
(02-04-2015 05:01 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  I have installed Foxit on a Win 7 Pro Inside Parallels and to my surprise
Foxit does not respect the fonts that I have specified in the PDF, also it
systematically lower the form fields enough to be a nuisance.

You will find that various Acrobat file viewers (especially free Acrobat writers) interpret files differently, in many ways, not just alignment. The only sensible thing to do is optimize for Adobe Reader (free too, after all) and if folks choose other viewers, then minor issues could appear.

No offense meant Dieter, Foxit is fine and widely used, it's just not wide enough to warrant driving form design intended for a wide audience, imho.

--Bob Prosperi
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02-04-2015, 07:49 PM
Post: #35
RE: HP program forms
(02-04-2015 01:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  You will find that various Acrobat file viewers (especially free Acrobat writers) interpret files differently, in many ways, not just alignment. The only sensible thing to do is optimize for Adobe Reader (free too, after all) and if folks choose other viewers, then minor issues could appear.

No offense meant Dieter, Foxit is fine and widely used, it's just not wide enough to warrant driving form design intended for a wide audience, imho.

Of course I agree that if there is a standard, this has to be the target for any design. If other software does not agree with this standard, problems may arise.

In this case I assume it was not Abobe Acrobat that was used for designing the forms, and my PDF reader was "third party software" either. So I tried the file with an "official" Adobe Acrobat Reader version XI on Win7/64. Two things turned out:
  • The form fields still appeared slightly low. Especially the fields for date, page, author etc. with the Helvetica font were almost half a line lower than what I would consider perfectly aligned. So Acrobat Reader XI shares this problem with Foxit Reader.
  • The fields for the key sequence ("operations") look better. If the boxes for the keys are filled, Acrobat Reader XI uses a fixed Courier font that is (quite) properly aligned. Foxit Reader here uses the same (or a similar) Helvetica font which is slightly low, some characters even touch the lower border of the filled boxes.

So maybe this is a font issue. Foxit Reader seems to use the same font for all fields in the PDF form.

Dieter
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02-05-2015, 02:03 AM
Post: #36
RE: HP program forms
(02-04-2015 07:49 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Of course I agree that if there is a standard, this has to be the target for any design. If other software does not agree with this standard, problems may arise.

In this case I assume it was not Abobe Acrobat that was used for designing the forms, and my PDF reader was "third party software" either. So I tried the file with an "official" Adobe Acrobat Reader version XI on Win7/64. Two things turned out:
  • The form fields still appeared slightly low. Especially the fields for date, page, author etc. with the Helvetica font were almost half a line lower than what I would consider perfectly aligned. So Acrobat Reader XI shares this problem with Foxit Reader.
  • The fields for the key sequence ("operations") look better. If the boxes for the keys are filled, Acrobat Reader XI uses a fixed Courier font that is (quite) properly aligned. Foxit Reader here uses the same (or a similar) Helvetica font which is slightly low, some characters even touch the lower border of the filled boxes.

So maybe this is a font issue. Foxit Reader seems to use the same font for all fields in the PDF form.

Dieter

Thanks for testing this so quickly Dieter, I was going to do so tonight with Adobe Reader. Fonts are probably the most common problem with other PDF writers (especially) and readers. This is a clear advantage Adobe has, with all the font knowledge and IP. And I've never understood why most PDF versions of paper forms seem to be out of alignment, but it is quite common. I guess with the design software it's tedious/difficult to "draw" the input boxes exactly, but haven't done it myself so don't know for sure.

So it appears from your results that Sylvain's HP-35 Form is somewhat typical in these 2 common areas. It will be interesting to see if a form that aligns well with Adobe Reader will also do so with other programs like Foxit.

--Bob Prosperi
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02-05-2015, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2015 01:57 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #37
RE: HP program forms
(02-05-2015 02:03 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  
(02-04-2015 07:49 PM)Dieter Wrote:  So maybe this is a font issue. Foxit Reader seems to use the same font for all fields in the PDF form.

Thanks for testing this so quickly Dieter, I was going to do so tonight with Adobe Reader. Fonts are probably the most common problem with other PDF writers (especially) and readers. This is a clear advantage Adobe has, with all the font knowledge and IP.

"IP"?!

(02-05-2015 02:03 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  So it appears from your results that Sylvain's HP-35 Form is somewhat typical in these 2 common areas. It will be interesting to see if a form that aligns well with Adobe Reader will also do so with other programs like Foxit.

Since Foxit Reader uses Helvetica for all fields, maybe there's a problem if a form contains more than one font. In this case I would suggest a Courier style font for the whole form. It seems to align better (OK, this is just a vague speculation) and, more important, it adds nicely to the vintage look of the filled form: somehow it looks like it was filled with a typewriter. ;-)

Dieter
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02-05-2015, 03:02 PM
Post: #38
RE: HP program forms
(02-05-2015 01:56 PM)Dieter Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 02:03 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Thanks for testing this so quickly Dieter, I was going to do so tonight with Adobe Reader. Fonts are probably the most common problem with other PDF writers (especially) and readers. This is a clear advantage Adobe has, with all the font knowledge and IP.

"IP"?!

Sorry, Intellectual Property - Patents and copyrights related to fonts

--Bob Prosperi
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02-06-2015, 02:10 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2015 02:15 PM by David Hayden.)
Post: #39
RE: HP program forms
(12-14-2014 09:24 PM)Dieter Wrote:  So I would like to ask which program forms have been available by HP or other sources.
I have a word document that mimics the 67/97/41 Users' Library Form. It's too big to attach to this message. It may be on the museum USB drive.

Send me a message if anyone wants a copy.

Edit: Here is a link to the file. If this doesn't work, PM me.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7375...rogram.doc
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02-08-2015, 05:13 PM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2015 05:21 PM by anetzer.)
Post: #40
RE: HP program forms
And here a program form for the Series 70 Calculators. I have removed repeating pages.

Could this possibly be added to the documents that are offered by the museum online and on USB?

It was part of a 1983 Submittal Contest and was send out together with a Sample program by Mary Jo Hornberger "Mailing List", two magnetic cards containing that program and an already impressive "Catalog of Contributed Programs For the Series 70" which lists roughly 100 programs together with order forms and gives detailed instructions how to fill out the form...

a.


Attached File(s)
.pdf  Series 70 Program Form.pdf (Size: 817.23 KB / Downloads: 52)
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