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HP-25C Eumulator
09-29-2014, 06:30 PM
Post: #21
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
Because you do not sell the kits?

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09-29-2014, 07:32 PM
Post: #22
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(09-29-2014 06:30 PM)hp41cx Wrote:  Because you do not sell the kits?

Because it's based on nonpareil which is open sourced and I have to follow the license and open source it. Jim Horn also wants to take a look. May be someone can turn this into a brain transplant PCB.

It's not ready to kit it up yet. We could do a kit if there are enough interest. Right now I don't have any plans. What I have is extra 9 V2 PCBs and I can procure the parts needed. The things I am considering is that firmware need to be more robust, currently the key scanning fails if I do not insulate the back of the PCB properly.

I can kit up the rest of the PCBs as-is if there are just a few wants. Or if we need to design a better one, mostly on the silkscreen prints based on feedback or demand.

What I am not prepared to do is the further furnish it w/ a case, or turn it into a brain transplant board, which I am not qualified to do (no brain-dead h/w, not enough HP knowledge). But I will be glad to help if someone takes on a brain transplant PCB.
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09-29-2014, 09:00 PM
Post: #23
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(09-29-2014 07:32 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  We could do a kit if there are enough interest.
I'd take one.
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09-30-2014, 07:39 AM
Post: #24
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(09-22-2014 06:09 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  Thanks Eric for the original nonpareil work! I tried to email him but has not yet got a reply, may be his site / account is not very active these days.

I no longer use that email address, because it is overrun with spam, even with filtering.
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09-30-2014, 09:55 AM
Post: #25
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(09-29-2014 09:00 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:32 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  We could do a kit if there are enough interest.
I'd take one.

Me too.
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09-30-2014, 10:42 AM
Post: #26
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
Depending on the value would be 2 units (25) and 2 units (Datamath)

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09-30-2014, 12:14 PM (This post was last modified: 09-30-2014 12:15 PM by Chris Chung.)
Post: #27
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(09-30-2014 07:39 AM)brouhaha Wrote:  
(09-22-2014 06:09 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  Thanks Eric for the original nonpareil work! I tried to email him but has not yet got a reply, may be his site / account is not very active these days.

I no longer use that email address, because it is overrun with spam, even with filtering.
Then I say thank you here for your work on Nonpareil. I hope I had not change it's spirit (very true to the micro second emulation) too much. I really enjoy seeing it come to life on a 2"x3.5" PCB. I do have to cut certain corners to make it work on the platform I want.

(09-30-2014 10:42 AM)hp41cx Wrote:  Depending on the value would be 2 units (25) and 2 units (Datamath)
The Datamath kit will be put up on the 43oh.com store in a couple of weeks. It's not my website but I am a long time member on that forum and it's typical that the owner create kits from popular member's projects. He actually initiated the Datamath "group-buy" and managed to shipp 20+ units. I do not know how much it will cost you. Should not be very different from the "group-buy" price of about $20, +$10 for assembly option. I will post here when that comes up.

You can see the original Datamath "group-buy" thread here.
http://forum.43oh.com/topic/5537-group-b...e-display/
It took us like 3 months end-to-end when members received their kits. It would be similar w/ the NP25 to get it right.

For the NP25 (that's what I called it for now) build. Looks like we will have no trouble getting around 10 units going. I will need a few weeks to work out a reliable firmware (and another version of PCB). With the 6V design, my tactile buttons are very jumpy (all is good if I power it externally). Probable caused by no ground shields, stray capacitance, etc. I have no o-scope to find out. I may go back to 3V unregulated supply which is also simpler. The fact is that there can be many things go wrong when you try to duplicate an h/w project so I would like to spend more time testing before finalizing firmware and PCBs.

I will keep you guys posted on the progress and we can count orders when I am ready to procure components.

If there is something you like to see in the final kit (or any questions), please comment.
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10-06-2014, 02:05 PM
Post: #28
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
Good news and bad news.

Good news 1st.

I've made good progress on the firmware and have freezed it except for bug fixes.

I had created a video to show the features;

http://youtu.be/0bu46mYKqck

1. selectable rom from HP-21, HP-25C and HP-33C.
2. press-n-hold + switch on to select one of the three ROMSs.
3. a setup menu to set the default ROM to use, plus ability to set speed (fast / slow).
4. both 25C and 33C programs are stored separately.
5. a greetings message set and show, handy as a gift item.

The stability problem I experienced came from the SMD coin cell holder (gnd contact) "touching" two of the button thru-hole contacts. I have to use kapton tape to insulate them properly, re-solder. You can see the backside of the PCB.

Now the bad news.

I tried to order some of the bubble leds from Sparkfun and found out that they are OOS. So the group-buy / kit is not happening, unless the are back in stock, which I doubt as these are old-new stocks and I don't think HP still makes them.

I had previously order two batches of a dozen of so for my projects and I always found there are 2000+ left in their stock, so I am quite surprize that there are 0 now. I scrolled down thru the comments and found that there are one or two person who tried to buy 1000+ units. I guess they got what they want and dry up the stock.

I did sign-up for notify when there are new stocks so we will see.


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10-07-2014, 03:53 PM
Post: #29
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-06-2014 02:05 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  Now the bad news.

I tried to order some of the bubble leds from Sparkfun and found out that they are OOS. So the group-buy / kit is not happening, unless the are back in stock, which I doubt as these are old-new stocks and I don't think HP still makes them.

I had previously order two batches of a dozen of so for my projects and I always found there are 2000+ left in their stock, so I am quite surprize that there are 0 now. I scrolled down thru the comments and found that there are one or two person who tried to buy 1000+ units. I guess they got what they want and dry up the stock.

This seems to be the same thing, QDSP-6064: http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/retro-4-digit-led-display

Was in stock when I checked.

Love the project! Am very interested in how you progress.
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10-07-2014, 05:15 PM
Post: #30
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
Can't the original modules be reused?
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10-07-2014, 06:15 PM
Post: #31
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-07-2014 03:53 PM)Neil Hamilton Wrote:  Was in stock when I checked.

It's far from me (I am in Canada), and I ordered units for 5 builds, will see when they arrive.

(10-07-2014 05:15 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  Can't the original modules be reused?

Assuming you are talking about the original bar type led module from the real woodstock calculators, yes, but the current PCB was not designed for them. For a brain-transplant, a new PCB need to be designed. If we want to re-use the keys, we will need 1) additional / alternate IC, 2) re-work firmware for different key scanning matrix.

With the current firmware, it's a fix and go at the moment (currently I still have issues w/ saving and loading program steps) and the firmware must be tested more before I can assemble kits. I would like to ship 1 unit to a tester before making the 10 or so kits available. Ideally someone who is familiar w/ HP-25C, 33C (programming too) and preferably have some electronics background, may be able to flash firmware updates? (I used a $10 TI Launchpad G2 as programmer). Any taker? The tester will have the unit in my last video (the one w/ 2 batteries). I can tweak the firmware based on a tester's feedback and review.

What I really don't want to see is people getting the kit and there are bugs in the firmware and there is no way to re-flash the firmware.

Also, If you are thinking to get one, please understand what it is before committing. I had gone thru prototypes, two iterations of custom PCBs and many hours. I am not trying to make money on kits. But would like others to enjoy this project.

. The display is not bright, you cannot read the display outdoors, and difficult to read beside a bright window.
. It is small (narrower but taller than a credit card) and you cannot press buttons efficiently.
. You do not want to use it as "the" calculator you use.
. It is fragile. Got no case.

OTOH
. It is a toy. It is not designed for practical use. It is fun to play with. It is true microcode emulation (thanks Eric). It's a great talk-piece.
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10-07-2014, 06:47 PM
Post: #32
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-07-2014 06:15 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  It's far from me (I am in Canada), and I ordered units for 5 builds, will see when they arrive.

I am in Ottawa so may be close to you -- give or take up to about 4300 klicks :-) More if you are in Nunavut.

(10-07-2014 06:15 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  With the current firmware, it's a fix and go at the moment (currently I still have issues w/ saving and loading program steps) and the firmware must be tested more before I can assemble kits. I would like to ship 1 unit to a tester before making the 10 or so kits available. Ideally someone who is familiar w/ HP-25C, 33C (programming too) and preferably have some electronics background, may be able to flash firmware updates? (I used a $10 TI Launchpad G2 as programmer). Any taker? The tester will have the unit in my last video (the one w/ 2 batteries). I can tweak the firmware based on a tester's feedback and review.

I'm am electronic eng who broke out his real 25 partly because of this project. I spent some of the weekend pouring over your and Eric's code to see how things worked. If you are stuck I might be able to help. Used to have a 33E as well. Really interested in the 34C version as well.

(10-07-2014 06:15 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  The display is not bright, you cannot read the display outdoors, and difficult to read beside a bright window.

AFAIK, no red LED calculator can be read outdoors in bright light. Not limited to this machine. They don't work too well under "red-light' conditions either I heard (recall reading something about nuclear submarines and the classics a while back).
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10-07-2014, 11:44 PM
Post: #33
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
@Neil Hamilton

I was thinking that may be hp41cx will be interested to be a tester, as he had indicated that he likes to have multiple units. If hp41cx is not interested, will you be interested to be a tester? the shipping will be less within Canada.

BTW, tester still need to pay. I am very over budget on this project. I am thinking $30 + shipping. Of course if anyone wants to roll-your-own, I am happy to release the PCB design upon PM requests.

Anyway if there is no taker, I will test it to my best capability. We (myself and potential kit grabbers) do need to decide if we need a new PCB, mainly because the current version does not have the right (or any) silk-screen prints. We could however leave it as is. Or adopt one of the three key layouts, i.e. HP-21, HP-25 or HP-33. Doing a new board will take 15-20 days.

(10-07-2014 06:47 PM)Neil Hamilton Wrote:  I am in Ottawa so may be close to you -- give or take up to about 4300 klicks :-) More if you are in Nunavut.

I am 450 clicks south west of you.

(10-07-2014 06:47 PM)Neil Hamilton Wrote:  I'm am electronic eng who broke out his real 25 partly because of this project. I spent some of the weekend pouring over your and Eric's code to see how things worked. If you are stuck I might be able to help. Used to have a 33E as well. Really interested in the 34C version as well.

Thanks in advance. The core emulator written by Eric is very robust. I only change the size of the register structures so they will fit in the micro. It's the glue code that ties the MCU IOs that needs to be tested properly. The LED multiplexing, keyboard scanning and other timing issues. The current firmware is very tight and of the 16K flash, I have only less than 50 bytes to spare. I have may be 60-70 bytes of stack which I hope it will not be over-run (so far my test shows that it's adequate).

I haven't retry the 34C after re-factoring the code. When it runs, it takes up all the flash memory and there is only 2/3 of the program steps. I will re-visit that after the securing the current firmware. The 34C has the biggest ROM.
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10-09-2014, 07:26 PM
Post: #34
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
Update

A member PMed me for a half-assembled PCB as he already have the bubble led displays.
I hope he can be our "early" unit tester to confirm the firmware and will do a mini feedback / review before I assemble the other kits.

[Image: IMG_20141008_203831.jpg]
I had my last led display "friction" fitted temporarily to make sure the PCB functions.

I am still waiting for his confirmation to ship this out. If this goes well, hopefully we can assemble the kits in 2-3 weeks time.

I am planning to just use the V2 boards for the kits (looks like there are just 4/5 kits needed). Since we are emulating 3 different calculators and their functions are all so different, we might as well omit the function key prints. It will also save me from the time needed to do another PCB.
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10-10-2014, 02:52 AM
Post: #35
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-09-2014 07:26 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  I am planning to just use the V2 boards for the kits (looks like there are just 4/5 kits needed).

I live near Montreal (QC) and I am interested to buy one of your kit.

Sylvain
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10-10-2014, 06:08 PM
Post: #36
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
The "early" unit has been shipped out. I am planning for the rest of the kits.

I had ordered led modules enough to do 5 units. There can only be up to about 5/6 kits.

The kits will be sold for $30, add $10 for assembly. Shipping is $10 US & international, $6 Canada.

I cannot do less than this, all the logistics are taking me time. I am also happy to build your own if you choose so. Firmware is open sourced, if you want the Gerber files, I can send to you via PM.

If you have not touch a soldering iron for a while, I suggest you let me assemble and test it. For assembly, you can choose not to have the LEDs soldered (just friction fit), the most costly components are the LEDs, so may be you don't want to "fixed" it on the board.

If you choose to solder it yourself, I cannot guarantee the final unit, except that I will tested all components prior to shipping and will test the firmware.

I am making a list of wants here based on previous posts, also order by date.

Harald_____________ early unit going his way.
Missimo, Thomas and Neil, not sure if you are going for one, please let me know.
hp41cx____________ 2 units.
Sylvian____________ 1 unit.
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10-10-2014, 09:25 PM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2014 10:11 PM by Mark Hardman.)
Post: #37
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-10-2014 06:08 PM)Chris Chung Wrote:  I am making a list of wants here based on previous posts, also order by date.

Harald_____________ early unit going his way.
Missimo, Thomas and Neil, not sure if you are going for one, please let me know.
hp41cx____________ 2 units.
Sylvian____________ 1 unit.

Please add me for one assembled unit provided any remain after Missimo [sic], Thomas and Neil exercise their option to purchase a kit.

Thanks.

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10-10-2014, 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2014 10:01 PM by Massimo Gnerucci.)
Post: #38
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-10-2014 09:25 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  Please add me for one assembled unit provided any remain after Missimo, Thomas and Neil exercise their option to purchase a kit.

Thanks.

Ok, once is fine, but twice...
It's Massimo, not Missimo.

Eheheheheh Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

Greetings,
    Massimo

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10-10-2014, 10:08 PM
Post: #39
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-10-2014 10:00 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 09:25 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  Please add me for one assembled unit provided any remain after Missimo, Thomas and Neil exercise their option to purchase a kit.

Thanks.

Ok, once is fine, but twice...
It's Massimo, not Missimo.

Eheheheheh Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

One of the dangers of copy-paste. My apologies.

Now, do you want a kit or not?

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10-10-2014, 11:06 PM
Post: #40
RE: HP-25C Eumulator
(10-10-2014 10:08 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  One of the dangers of copy-paste. My apologies.

Not needed, really. I was joking.

(10-10-2014 10:08 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  Now, do you want a kit or not?

As I already PM'd Chris, yes: I would like to have one of them.

Greetings,
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