HP-50gII Discussion (split from 15c CE thread)

[Voldemar]

(08-25-2023 03:42 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  50GII

That would be something!

[Eddie W. Shore]

(08-25-2023 03:42 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  Hi Peet!

Good comments. We've decided on the Collector's Edition for the 15C, as unfortunately these calculators are no longer 'mainstream'. But who knows!

I've read something on 50GII, if only!

Who knows? The HP 15C may become mainstream once again.

As for the 50GII, I'm ears and eyes!

[Thomas Radtke]

The 50GII got some attention. Now we need to keep Klaas on hook.

Are there any sources? I remember the 50G had a modified 48G firmware that was written in ... assembler?

[johnb]

(08-26-2023 08:30 AM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  The 50GII got some attention. Now we need to keep Klaas on hook.

I would definitely buy one! Especially if it came with a build similar to the 48GX, but with a much better display. Not a big fan of the 50G keys. I guess while I'm at it, can I please get my 50gII in the old 48sx color scheme?

I'd buy TWO of those, to ensure I will always have a backup.

[ferni123]

(08-25-2023 03:42 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  [quote='Peet' pid='176253' dateline='1692638804']


I've read something on 50GII, if only!

Reintroducing HP50G would be fantastic. If you ever consider it, some suggestions:

- e̶-̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ memory LCD display as DM42 with a gorilla glass protection avoiding a large gap between screen and glass protection. Robust to avoid dust contamination behind the glass protection.
- larger font in the display as HP48G
- A similar keyboard layout as HP 48G, 9x6 matrix with large Enter key. In the 2 extra keys from the current HP50G, I would probably add LN and LOG as primary keys. Also, I would exchange the primary function of MODE key to CST.
- Colour scheme as HP48S for the keyboard.

Looking forward to hearing news on this.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(08-27-2023 09:54 AM)ferni123 Wrote:  - e-ink display as DM42

Not e-ink but Sharp "Memory LCD" display.

[John Keith]

(08-26-2023 08:10 PM)johnb Wrote:  I would definitely buy one! Especially if it came with a build similar to the 48GX, but with a much better display. Not a big fan of the 50G keys. I guess while I'm at it, can I please get my 50gII in the old 48sx color scheme?

Exactly. As I said in an older thread, my ideal is full 50g functionality, keyboard layout similar to the 48G and the style and color scheme of the 48S.

This would necessarily require new hardware because an additional row of keys, and much larger RAM and flash, would be required compared to the DM4x platform. This new hardware platform would also be able to run Plus42 with different key tops.

The cost would, of course, be higher than that of the DM42 but may be economically feasible considering that it would attract both HP-42 and HP-48 users.

[johnb]

(08-27-2023 05:28 PM)John Keith Wrote:  

(08-26-2023 08:10 PM)johnb Wrote:  I guess while I'm at it, can I please get my 50gII in the old 48sx color scheme?

Exactly. As I said in an older thread, my ideal is full 50g functionality, keyboard layout similar to the 48G and the style and color scheme of the 48S.

Wow, I had no idea I could maybe be in the majority of preferring the 48s color scheme!

Then again, thinking about it a bit, it is much closer to the more frequently used classic color schemes than the 48g and later series were.

[LinusSch]

(08-25-2023 03:42 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  I've read something on 50GII, if only!

With the 15C CE, you got my attention, but not my money. With a 50gii you would get my money unless you screw it up very badly, which at this point I'm thankfully quite certain that you won't!

Some of the ideas expressed here I agree with. The Sharp memory LCD used by SwissMicros is probably the best screen available for a calculator, and it would work even if you can't make the ROM handle the increased resolution, 131 by 80 multiplied by 3 is 393 by 240 which is close enough to 400 by 240.

A type C USB port would be expected. I'd enjoy still having a SD card slot as well but that is not needed. I sure hope we'd be able to put custom firmware on it. I don't think the community efforts will ever surpass the original in most ways, but they will always do so in some way. And they keep the art and the community alive.

Some really good rubber feet, that don't disappear, would be highly appreciated.

The (black) 50g color scheme is good, as is the gold-and-blue and the orange-and-blue of older models, I don't like the lilac-and-green.

Key layout... yeah, the MODE key is remapped to CST on my 50g's. And I didn't figure out a way to get to the MODE screen with the shifted press where CST is originally, so just swapping those two seems very sensible to me if sticking with the 49g+ / 50g layout. But the 48g layout seems to have more fans and I can see why.

Finally (for this post), it would be neat if it could be a bit more compact than the normal graphing calculator size of the original 50g. I'm not sure whether an appreciable shrink can be achieved while still feeling good in the hands and under the thumbs. The 48 key layout is more conducive to this than the 49/50.

Here's a lot of hope and well wishes for such a project! You have a lot of support here if you decide to do this.

(edited for clarity on color schemes)

[etn]

(08-28-2023 10:00 AM)LinusSch Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 03:42 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  I've read something on 50GII, if only!

With the 15C CE, you got my attention, but not my money. With a 50gii you would get my money [..]

A type C USB port would be expected. I'd enjoy still having a SD card slot as well but that is not needed. [..]

The 50g color scheme is good, as is the gold-and-blue and the orange-and-blue ones, I don't like the lilac-and-green. [..]

Key layout... [..] But the 48g layout seems to have more fans and I can see why.

Here's a lot of hope and well wishes for such a project! You have a lot of support here if you decide to do this.

I agree with the above, and if I may add my $0.02...

To me the 48SX key layout (with big Enter key etc.) is superior to the 49/50 layout. Probably a matter of getting used to, but a lot about using a calculator is about the experience (otherwise we would all be using our cell phones!) A large Enter key is part of it.

The 48SX colors (32Sii etc) are the best in my opinion.

USB-C should be a given for any USB-compliant device released ≥ 2023 indeed.

SD Card: why not, but with the large / cheap memory available in any modern microcontroller, it might not be needed anymore.

Sorry for the digression from 15c topics... but if a 48SX (or 2nd best a 50g) Collector Edition came out I too would buy at least 2.

[johnb]

Just to clarify my POV...

Color scheme: 48sx / HP-15c colors are best, then the 2nd gen 50g, then the 48gx as a distant third. (Gx colors are acceptable (readable) but I really don't like them.)

Keyboard layout: I think the 48gx is best, followed by the 48sx, followed by the 50g layout. Whatever layout is chosen, it must have the big [enter] key, located more or less where the 48's have it. That's a deal breaker for me, maybe surprisingly.

[One other thought... width and length, it could be the size of a 48 and that'd be okay. I think we could go with a slimmer thickness, though. Do we need to accomodate 48-style pluggable modules? If so, more than 2 of them?]

[John Keith]

(08-28-2023 04:52 PM)johnb Wrote:  ... Do we need to accomodate 48-style pluggable modules? If so, more than 2 of them?]

No, because the 1990's RAM/ROM cards run at much slower speeds than modern hardware and accommodating them would be an interfacing nightmare, and would add significant cost. Most if not all modules are available in binary form, and all of them would fit on a Micro SD card with room to spare.

If the modern 48/50 is going to appeal to more than a handful of hard-core collectors, it will need to be much faster and have much larger memory. I would consider the specs of the Prime G2 to be a floor in terms of performance and memory capacity. On the software side, I would like to see it run both NewRPL and a "compatibility mode" that can use standard HP 50 ROMs, similar to Emu48. NewRPL is much faster than "old RPL" but there are a huge number of programs and libraries out there which are written in System RPL and/or assembly, which we do not want to lose access to.

[Wes Loewer]

(08-28-2023 10:00 AM)LinusSch Wrote:  And I didn't figure out a way to get to the MODE screen with the shifted press where CST is originally,

Code:

<< -22. KEYEVAL>>
22.2
ASN

And if you have KeyMan installed, you take add the TakeOver command which allows this key assignment to be used while editing.

[johnb]

(08-28-2023 05:38 PM)John Keith Wrote:  

(08-28-2023 04:52 PM)johnb Wrote:  ... Do we need to accomodate 48-style pluggable modules? If so, more than 2 of them?]

No, because the 1990's RAM/ROM cards run at much slower speeds than modern hardware and accommodating them would be an interfacing nightmare, and would add significant cost. Most if not all modules are available in binary form, and all of them would fit on a Micro SD card with room to spare.

Good point! So, yeah, we want a slimmer form factor than the 48gx/sx. Maybe also save some length by having a much smaller border around the screen.

(08-28-2023 05:38 PM)John Keith Wrote:  If the modern 48/50 is going to appeal to more than a handful of hard-core collectors, it will need to be much faster and have much larger memory. I would consider the specs of the Prime G2 to be a floor in terms of performance and memory capacity.

We are in "violent agreement" here, LOL. :-D

(08-28-2023 05:38 PM)John Keith Wrote:  On the software side, I would like to see it run both NewRPL and a "compatibility mode" that can use standard HP 50 ROMs, similar to Emu48. NewRPL is much faster than "old RPL" but there are a huge number of programs and libraries out there which are written in System RPL and/or assembly, which we do not want to lose access to.

I hadn't thought of two modes, but this makes perfect sense. If HP wants to sell a good number of these, it needs both NewRPL and HP-50-RPL. I want a 50gII specifically so I can run all the existing 50g software. Others might not care about that at all and would want NewRPL.

[LinusSch]

(08-28-2023 05:57 PM)Wes Loewer Wrote:  

Code:

<< -22. KEYEVAL>>
22.2
ASN

Thankyou! Apparently I did not try hard enough to find KEYEVAL and/or how to use it. Not sure why, it's been a while.

[LinusSch]

Can the two posts in the thread https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20419.html also be moved here? That would be great

[rprosperi]

(08-30-2023 11:39 AM)LinusSch Wrote:  Can the two posts in the thread https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20419.html also be moved here? That would be great

No, I looked already (when creating this thread) for a way to move specific messages to an an existing thread and it does seem to be possible, which seems odd.

My suggestion is to ask you (LinusSch) and f16falcona46 to simply create new posts in this thread and copy/paste the contents from your original posts into the new one here, thus preserving the comments within this thread. Primitive, but since it's only 1 message each, the best way to go. Once done, PM me and I'll remove that entire original thread to avoid confusion among future readers.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(08-26-2023 08:10 PM)johnb Wrote:  I would definitely buy one! Especially if it came with...

... BASIC as programming language, at least as an alternative. Otherwise I'm rather not interested. And I think the calculator is not old enough yet for a "collector's edition". Maybe in twenty years.

Regards
Max

[Thomas Radtke]

(08-30-2023 12:46 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  ... BASIC [...]

D'oh!

[LinusSch]

(08-28-2023 07:48 PM)johnb Wrote:  

(08-28-2023 05:38 PM)John Keith Wrote:  No, because the 1990's RAM/ROM cards run at much slower speeds than modern hardware and accommodating them would be an interfacing nightmare, and would add significant cost. Most if not all modules are available in binary form, and all of them would fit on a Micro SD card with room to spare.

Good point! So, yeah, we want a slimmer form factor than the 48gx/sx. Maybe also save some length by having a much smaller border around the screen.

Definitely shrink the screen border, yes. Thickness preferably no more than needed for a comfortable grip.

(08-28-2023 07:48 PM)johnb Wrote:  

(08-28-2023 05:38 PM)John Keith Wrote:  If the modern 48/50 is going to appeal to more than a handful of hard-core collectors, it will need to be much faster and have much larger memory. I would consider the specs of the Prime G2 to be a floor in terms of performance and memory capacity.

We are in "violent agreement" here, LOL. :-D

I'm not, though. It would be nice, but a speedup akin to going from stock to newRPL on a 50g is enough for me. Meeting that I'd prioritize finding a replaceable battery that makes sense to use, will be available 30 years from now, and being able to do at least two days of heavy use even when that battery has seen a great number of cycles. Large memory definite yes though.

(08-28-2023 07:48 PM)johnb Wrote:  

(08-28-2023 05:38 PM)John Keith Wrote:  On the software side, I would like to see it run both NewRPL and a "compatibility mode" that can use standard HP 50 ROMs, similar to Emu48. NewRPL is much faster than "old RPL" but there are a huge number of programs and libraries out there which are written in System RPL and/or assembly, which we do not want to lose access to.

I hadn't thought of two modes, but this makes perfect sense. If HP wants to sell a good number of these, it needs both NewRPL and HP-50-RPL. I want a 50gII specifically so I can run all the existing 50g software. Others won't care about that at all and will want NewRPL.

Oh, I like this idea. I currently have one 50g that is stock and one that is newRPL, being able to switch between them in one device without reflashing would be very nice indeed.