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WP 31S available at SourceForge
05-01-2014, 02:20 AM
Post: #41
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
I will release the overlays once a PDF manual is available for download. No point in an overlay without instructions that one can look at before putting any money down.
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05-01-2014, 08:08 AM
Post: #42
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(04-15-2014 07:49 AM)walter b Wrote:  Hi all,

Seems not everybody interested is aware of the availability of WP 31S. Thus let me repeat:
  • WP 31S is a number cruncher like the WP 34S, but featuring a cleaner, simpler UI and a reduced function set. In particular, it is nonprogrammable.
  • You find calc.bin at http://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/HEAD...realbuild/
  • You find the good old Windows emulator at http://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/HEAD...ndows/bin/
  • For the emulator, download emulator.dll and the .skin, .bmp, and .exe files from said directory; then start .exe
  • For the real thing, flashing works as for the WP 34S (and explained in its manual in detail).
  • There are no adhesive overlays yet. You can get around that by printing a paper overlay using layout (a) as published in the current poll. The overall width of the print shall be 77mm - then you can cut out what you need and it will be to scale.
  • There is no manual published yet. The WP 31S function set, however, is a subset of the one of the WP 34S - except UNDO.
  • WP 31S is the first RPN calculator worldwide featuring a full-fledge UNDO: pressing it will restore the entire calculator status as it was before the last command was executed.
Just download and try. Enjoy! Smile

d:-)
Thank-you, Walter

I got a problem executing the emulator.
Infact the file "4 Medium 31s.skin", was saved on my PC without the complete name (just "4") and the right extension (skin), so that running the emulator it was not able to find any skin for the calculator...the same happened on other two machines.
It was clear the problem in downloading at the third attempt, reading the error message (33) and comparing the files on my PC with the ones available on sourceforge
Forgive me if maybe what I say is obvious for most of you but but I found that the problem it's due to my default browser, while with i.e. everything it's ok......why Firefox does not recognized it?
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05-01-2014, 09:00 AM
Post: #43
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-01-2014 08:08 AM)aurelio Wrote:  I got a problem executing the emulator.
Infact the file "4 Medium 31s.skin", was saved on my PC without the complete name (just "4") and the right extension (skin), so that running the emulator it was not able to find any skin for the calculator...the same happened on other two machines.
It was clear the problem in downloading at the third attempt, reading the error message (33) and comparing the files on my PC with the ones available on sourceforge
Forgive me if maybe what I say is obvious for most of you but but I found that the problem it's due to my default browser, while with i.e. everything it's ok......why Firefox does not recognized it?

Sorry for your inconvenience. File names containing blanks aren't good practice IMHO.

d:-/
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05-01-2014, 09:26 AM
Post: #44
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-01-2014 02:20 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  I will release the overlays once a PDF manual is available for download. No point in an overlay without instructions that one can look at before putting any money down.

You can test the emulator free of any charge at all (see the OP) - even without buying overlays. Wink

Seriously, you find a pdf at http://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/HEAD...p31s/docs/ . Now waiting for your overlays. Smile

d:-)
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05-02-2014, 09:27 PM
Post: #45
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-01-2014 09:00 AM)walter b Wrote:  Sorry for your inconvenience. File names containing blanks aren't good practice IMHO.

Indeed. I had the same problem as Aurelio. Of course it can be solved by manually renaming the skin file, but this should not be required from the user. Could we please have this file renamed? This might also include file name changes inside the emulator.

Dieter
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05-02-2014, 11:18 PM
Post: #46
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(04-30-2014 10:31 AM)walter b Wrote:  After 15 days now, we can frankly say we didn't get any bug reports anymore (nor did we detect any bugs ourselves) so everything just seems running smoothly. That's the obvious advantage of deriving a product. Wink

OTOH, the interest in such an entry-level RPN scientific calculator seems to be ... hmmmh ... expandable so far. Wink Since our main motivation was creating a clean, easy looking surface for a product attracting new monks to the ancient order of urrRh-Pee-anN it looks like we jumped too short. Following a good old motto, I'm interested in your opinion about the (root) causes:
  • Is it too early to evaluate yet? Shall we be more patient?
  • Is the WP 31S too simple? Are there any crucial features missing?
  • Is our target audience traveling elsewhere? Where shall we go to reach them?
  • Which other important facts did we miss?
TIA for your thoughts.

d:-?
Any chance of a TVM routine built in? (Just so the calculator takes on an element of the classic HP27S)? That might make it the killer entry-level machine....
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05-03-2014, 02:24 AM
Post: #47
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-01-2014 09:26 AM)walter b Wrote:  Seriously, you find a pdf at http://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/HEAD...p31s/docs/ . Now waiting for your overlays. Smile

d:-)

Excellent. Let me replace the blade in my cutter and I will start making some overlays (design is done).
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05-03-2014, 03:30 AM
Post: #48
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(04-30-2014 10:31 AM)walter b Wrote:  OTOH, the interest in such an entry-level RPN scientific calculator seems to be ... hmmmh ... expandable so far.

I *love* the 34s. Love, love, love it. But, I have been using RPN calculators for 25 years, and that experience cannot be taken for granted. I think the 31S is a much easier calculator to approach by someone new to RPN. Although it's perfectly possible to *ignore* all the programmability features of the 34S, they represent a fair bit of noise to filter off by a newcomer to RPN. Besides, when was the last time a simple, non-programmable *scientific* RPN calculator was available? 2 or 3 decades ago?

(That said, I'd still love the idea of endowing the 31S with a formula editor à la 33s/35s to enable solve/integrate. But, that's still far less conceptual complexity *for most users* than RPN keystroke programming.)

I have 2 34S's and 4 more HP30B's or so sitting in a drawer ready to be flashed. But, I need to get a couple of those 31S overlays first!

SN
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05-03-2014, 05:28 AM
Post: #49
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-03-2014 02:24 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  ... I will start making some overlays (design is done).

May we see it?

d:-)
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05-03-2014, 05:07 PM
Post: #50
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-02-2014 11:18 PM)JimP Wrote:  Any chance of a TVM routine built in? (Just so the calculator takes on an element of the classic HP27S)? That might make it the killer entry-level machine....

Agree this is a very nice and useful extension of the 31S feature set, which would probably broaden it's appeal extensively! Technical MoHPC forum members likely aren't as excited about this feature, but I think we all would like to broaden the appeal of the 31S to a larger audience, and this could be a key way to achieve that.

Of course the obvious obstacle is the key layout, since the N/%/PV/PMT/FV need (IMHO) to be on/near the top row, and lord knows we don't want to revisit that issue, however I hope/suspect this could be accomplished wihtout major rework as follows:
  • Have a global setting (Catalog?) enable the TVM suite
  • Have 2 sets of Keyboard overlays available
  • Technical users keep existing overlay for scientific/engineering use
  • A new Overlay with the top keys "labeled" for the TVM functions
  • A user desiring primary TVM use gets 2nd overley and enables feature during initial use
  • All functions (e.g. the non-current top-row functions) are available via Catalogs

Pauli / Walter: Is this approach feasible?
Others: Do you agree this would be a useful extension of the 31S feature set, which would broaden appeal and add useful features?

--Bob Prosperi
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05-05-2014, 12:25 AM
Post: #51
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
It will probably need some tweaking once I start cutting it, but here's what I have so far:

http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/wp31soverlay-v1.png
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05-05-2014, 01:56 AM
Post: #52
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
The 31S is a converted 20b or 30b. I'd recommend using them for TVM calculations.

- Pauli
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05-05-2014, 12:32 PM
Post: #53
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-05-2014 12:25 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  It will probably need some tweaking once I start cutting it, but here's what I have so far:

http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/wp31soverlay-v1.png

Hi Eric,
That looks very nice.
If I could request or suggest changes, I would ask for the following:
1. use the century schoolbook italic font for the e on the e^x key), and all lower-case appearances of x and y.
2. use a more stylish version of the pi symbol.
In other words, make the e, x, y and pi look like they appear on the wp31s overlay I prepared:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=414]

Also, I note the use of the forward-slash instead of the obelus for the division key legend. Will you offer an "optional" obelus symbol for who might prefer that? (I don't care either way, mostly just curious if you decided to abandon the obelus.)

Dave - My mind is going - I can feel it.
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05-05-2014, 02:22 PM
Post: #54
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
Eric,

(05-05-2014 12:32 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 12:25 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  It will probably need some tweaking once I start cutting it, but here's what I have so far:

http://commerce.hpcalc.org/images/wp31soverlay-v1.png

That looks very nice.
If I could request or suggest changes, I would ask for the following:
1. use the century schoolbook italic font for the e on the e^x key), and all lower-case appearances of x and y.
2. use a more stylish version of the pi symbol.
In other words, make the e, x, y and pi look like they appear on the wp31s overlay I prepared:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/attachment.php?aid=414

I concur with Jeff except I suggest using LG instead of LOG for reasons explained here more than once. Please note also the relative vertical positions of lower case Greek gamma and mu - you won't elevate a lower case Latin g either.

d:-)
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05-05-2014, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2014 04:00 PM by Tim Wessman.)
Post: #55
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-05-2014 12:32 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  1. use the century schoolbook italic font for the e on the e^x key), and all lower-case appearances of x and y.

I'd recommend trying using gentium (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page....id=gentium) instead of century schoolbook. After quite a bit of legibility testing and many "offical" samples, I determined long ago that it ends up being more legible in many ways (especially when you have to adjust the characters to make things fit - glyph height, kerning, width etc). The glyphs just remain more readable in every situation you might encounter on a key legend.

TW

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
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05-05-2014, 04:35 PM
Post: #56
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-05-2014 03:58 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  I'd recommend trying using gentium (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page....id=gentium) instead of century schoolbook. After quite a bit of legibility testing and many "offical" samples, I determined long ago that it ends up being more legible in many ways (especially when you have to adjust the characters to make things fit - glyph height, kerning, width etc). The glyphs just remain more readable in every situation you might encounter on a key legend.

Thank you for the hint, Tim.

d:-)
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05-05-2014, 05:26 PM
Post: #57
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-05-2014 03:58 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  I'd recommend trying using gentium (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page....id=gentium) instead of century schoolbook.

I'm just hoping for the same "look" as on HP keyboards, so whatever is the easiest or best way to achieve that is fine with me. (Not that what is fine with me matters in the least, of course. It is Eric's decision.)

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05-09-2014, 09:15 PM
Post: #58
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
FYI, build 3645 is available at SourceForge and should be used for testing (applies for the WP 34S, too).

d:-)
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05-09-2014, 11:18 PM
Post: #59
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-05-2014 01:56 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  The 31S is a converted 20b or 30b. I'd recommend using them for TVM calculations.

- Pauli

Pauli:

If I convert my 20b or 30b into a 31S, say because I prefer that UI approach, or key layout, or greatly expanded scientific/numerical capabilities, but I still need to do occasional loan or calculations, I would prefer to do it on my main use machine, rather than hunt down a 2nd 30b.

Walter asked "what did we miss?" in the 31S feature set, to explain the lower than expected apparant interest, so I was just echoing JimP's suggestion, of another set of features which, IMHO, would broaden it's appeal to more users (in general, not here).

The 30b is fine for a primary business user, but the rest of us that prefer a scientific still use TVM features from time to time; probably as least as often as some of the more esoteric stuff already in the 31S.

I get that it that those functions are already built (from the 34S) and the TVM stuff would need to be built, but probably user code would be good enough for this "guest" functionality.

The real point of the post was to explore if a set of alternate functions (like TVM in place of default SQRT, X^2, etc.) could be re-mapped to the keyboard via some user-selectable setting. Such a framework would allow future variations to more easily implement new "built-in" functionality, only requiring different overlays. It also would allow these variations, or contributions to them, to come from additional developers who may not need to learn all the 31S/34S internals in order to contribute some new feature. Just wondering out loud.

Is this feasible, without lots of redesign, etc?

--Bob Prosperi
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05-10-2014, 06:32 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2014 07:00 AM by walter b.)
Post: #60
RE: WP 31S available at SourceForge
(05-09-2014 11:18 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 01:56 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  The 31S is a converted 20b or 30b. I'd recommend using them for TVM calculations.

- Pauli
...

The real point of the post was to explore if a set of alternate functions (like TVM in place of default SQRT, X^2, etc.) could be re-mapped to the keyboard via some user-selectable setting. Such a framework would allow future variations to more easily implement new "built-in" functionality, only requiring different overlays. It also would allow these variations, or contributions to them, to come from additional developers who may not need to learn all the 31S/34S internals in order to contribute some new feature. Just wondering out loud.

Is this feasible, without lots of redesign, etc?

I'd guess not. Sometimes in life, decisions are simply inevitable.
  • If you want an "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (jack of all trades device) then get the WP 34S where Franz' TVM program is included in the library.
  • If you prefer a very clean surface of a scientific calc instead, get the WP 31S.
  • If you want a business calc, stay with the HP-30b.
  • If you want something different than the ones mentioned above then design a 32S (remember the HP-22).
  • If you want a chameleon, invent.
Looking forward to your results.

d:-)

(I think it's obvious I don't work in sales nor in diplomatic service. Wink )
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