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WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Printable Version

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WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - BarryMead - 04-08-2015 08:28 AM

A while back there was a discussion about making the searchable PDF manual Version 3.3 available for a fair price.here
The number $9.00 US Dollars was mentioned, and there was significant interest by several members of the community in purchasing a searchable PDF version of the latest manual at that price. Walter had indicated that this option might be acceptable to him if he could SECURELY ENCODE the name of each purchaser into the PDF download to track illegal sharing and copyright infringement. I was wondering if any progress has been made in rolling out this purchasing option? Will this PDF purchasing option be offered? If so can you give us a guess as to when it might be available?

Thanks, Barry


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - jebem - 04-09-2015 08:04 AM

We use the services from Vitalsource.
Secure document publishing.
Owners access the eBooks using a browser for online reading, or they can download a App for Windows, Mac and Android.

Vitalsource


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - walter b - 04-09-2015 08:13 AM

Muito bom dia, José, can you elaborate a bit about "use the services"? I just found a corporate contact address for publisher inquiries but I don't really think I'm a corporation. Wink Muito obrigado antecipadamente!

d:-)


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - jebem - 04-09-2015 01:37 PM

(04-09-2015 08:13 AM)walter b Wrote:  (...) can you elaborate a bit about "use the services"? I just found a corporate contact address for publisher inquiries but I don't really think I'm a corporation.

Halo, Walter!
Welcome back!

Well, when I mean "we" I'm refering to VMware Education services.
I don't know what business model Vitalsource is using to sell the Bookshelf services.
I'm just working with VMware Education as an instructor and I know VMware is not distributing paperback student guides anymore for most countries, as now they use this service.

Sorry to not be able to provide you more details.

P.S..- Edit to add that this service allows for secure eBooks distribution, as the downloaded files will be fully encrypted, and are only accessed by using a private unique reclaim code that will be attached to the physical device used to run their App to read the eBooks. In case of online access to the eBooks, the owner will have to use both the reclaim code and a userid/password combination.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Thomas_Sch - 04-09-2015 02:10 PM

Hello Walter,

maybe Otto Praxl (see http://www.praxelius.de/) will have hints for producing secured pdf files.
On his page he says:
"Geschütztes Verzeichnis und geschützte Dateien
Die nachfolgend aufgeführten Inhalte sind zum Schutz gegen automatisches Herunterladen in einem geschützten Verzeichnis gespeichert.
Nach Anklicken der gewünschten Datei müssen Benutzername und Passwort manuell eingegeben werden. Sie finden diese Angaben im Impressum.
PDF-Dokumente sind zusätzlich verschlüsselt und können nur mit einem Lesekennwort (siehe Impressum) geöffnet werden."

Some of his books he is selling via http://www.grin.com/de/?partner_id=664540
e.g. http://www.grin.com/de/e-book/193632/wissenschaftliche-hp-taschenrechner-im-praktischen-einsatz

HTH, Thomas


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - BarryMead - 04-09-2015 05:51 PM

(04-09-2015 08:04 AM)jebem Wrote:  We use the services from Vitalsource.
Secure document publishing.
Owners access the eBooks using a browser for online reading, or they can download a App for Windows, Mac and Android.

Vitalsource
I would like to suggest that whatever method is selected, that it not leave us "Linux" users out in the cold.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - walter b - 04-09-2015 05:55 PM

What is it what you "Linux" users can't do what e.g. Windows users can do? I thought it's the other way round.

d:-?


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - BarryMead - 04-09-2015 06:07 PM

(04-09-2015 05:55 PM)walter b Wrote:  What is it what you "Linux" users can't do what e.g. Windows users can do? I thought it's the other way round.

d:-?
To be more clear, I was hoping that If I buy the PDF manual, I could VIEW it from within the Linux operating system that I use every day. I probably would not bother buying the PDF if I have to reboot my computer into Windows just to do a manual search. Searching is a "Time Saving" activity, and it would not save much time (if any) to reboot my computer into Windows every time I need to search for something in the manual.

The posting by jabem about the vitalsource eBook system he uses mentions reader applications available for Windows, Mac and Android, but he does not mention Linux. It is my hope that whatever method is chosen to SECURE the manual from copyright infringement be "LINUX FRIENDLY".

Does that help you to understand the reason for latest posting?


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - jebem - 04-09-2015 06:19 PM

(04-09-2015 06:07 PM)BarryMead Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 05:55 PM)walter b Wrote:  What is it what you "Linux" users can't do what e.g. Windows users can do? I thought it's the other way round.

d:-?
To be more clear, I was hoping that If I buy the PDF manual, I could VIEW it from within the Linux operating system that I use every day. I probably would'nt bother buying the PDF if I have to reboot my computer into Windows just to do a manual search. Searching is a "Time Saving" activity, and it would not save much time (if any) to reboot my computer into Windows every time I need to search for something in the manual.

The posting by jabem about the vitalsource eBook system he uses mentions reader applications available for Windows, Mac and Android, but he does not mention Linux. It is my hope that whatever method is chosen to SECURE the manual from copyright infringement be "LINUX FRIENDLY".

Does that help you to understand the reason for latest posting?

Yap, Linux App for offline reading is not available at this time. See it here.

However, online reading is available from most popular web browsers, as long as the person has the eBook reclaim code and a Vitalsource account registration.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - BarryMead - 04-09-2015 06:29 PM

(04-09-2015 06:19 PM)jebem Wrote:  Yap, Linux App for offline reading is not available at this time. See it here.

However, online reading is available from most popular web browsers, as long as the person has the eBook reclaim code and a Vitalsource account registration.
jabem: Can the login/reclaim code be consolidated into a single line http request included in a desktop icon so that clicking on a desktop icon can pull up the online version of the manual? Logging into an on-line web site and entering access codes or password each time you want to scan the manual would make it so painful to use that the DRM would soon feel like a penalty or burden to the user. Have you asked Vitalsource if they EVER plan to release a Linux version of their reader application?


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Thomas_Sch - 04-09-2015 06:44 PM

(04-09-2015 06:29 PM)BarryMead Wrote:  jabem: Can the login/reclaim code be consolidated into a single line http request included in a desktop icon so that it takes only 1 click to pull up the online version of the manual? Logging into an on-line web site and entering access codes or password each time you want to scan the manual would make it so painful to use that the DRM would soon feel like a penalty or burden to the user. Have you asked Vitalsource if they EVER plan to release a Linux version of their reader application?
If a document, what I bought, is not usable independent of the connection to the Internet, this is not user friendly. I would not buy such a document.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - BarryMead - 04-09-2015 07:07 PM

(04-09-2015 06:44 PM)Thomas_Sch Wrote:  If a document, what I bought, is not usable independent of the connection to the Internet, this is not user friendly. I would not buy such a document.
Many people feel this way. I have seen a number of book sellers use a simpler (not ideal) compromise to handle this issue. They "LOCK" the PDF so that it can be READ but cannot be ALTERED, and ENCODE the user name into each downloaded copy. This means that the online selling application needs to gather the user name at the time of purchase (from the credit card or paypal info) and ENCODE/LOCK it into the document prior to download.

Each PDF is unique in this way, and if someone SHARES their PDF document with others it will be traceable back to the VIOLATOR.

I realize that this method only ENCOURAGES honesty, and does not FORCE it directly. DRM can FORCE honesty, but has the price of being difficult to use and incompatible with standard PDF viewers.

Both options have their benefits and drawbacks.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - BarryMead - 04-09-2015 07:17 PM

The "Steam" DRM company has applications for Linux, Windows, Mac, and other platforms.
They have DRM protected PDF documents (Strategy Guides) for video games that they sell through their store, and protect with their DRM.

People trust "Steam" and it is likely that they will be around for a long time. When you buy a game or strategy guide from Steam, it is always
available both online and offline and their DRM tool/offline viewer works on all platforms.

Perhaps that would be an option.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Massimo Gnerucci - 04-09-2015 07:29 PM

(04-09-2015 06:19 PM)jebem Wrote:  However, online reading is available from most popular web browsers, as long as the person has the eBook reclaim code and a Vitalsource account registration.

Oh, that's very handy!
Smile

[Image: 5512994776_505eea6eb3_o.png]


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - jebem - 04-09-2015 07:39 PM

(04-09-2015 06:29 PM)BarryMead Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 06:19 PM)jebem Wrote:  Yap, Linux App for offline reading is not available at this time. See it here.

However, online reading is available from most popular web browsers, as long as the person has the eBook reclaim code and a Vitalsource account registration.
jabem: Can the login/reclaim code be consolidated into a single line http request included in a desktop icon so that it takes only 1 click to pull up the online version of the manual? Logging into an on-line web site and entering access codes or password each time you want to scan the manual would make it so painful to use that the DRM would soon feel like a penalty or burden to the user. Have you asked Vitalsource if they EVER plan to release a Linux version of their reader application?

As far as I know, the login process in interactive, asking for userID/password credentials. The reclaim code is only entered once when the ebook is accessed for the first time.
Then you may read the ebook online, and depending on the service level contracted, you may print it (it will have watermarks with the name of the ebook's owner).
Of course this is not what Linux machine owners wants.

I have asked Vitalsource about Linux support for offline readers in the past, but I never got a good answer from them.
In fact Mac support for offline readers is very recent. In the beginning they had just Windows support, then added Android and later Mac.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - jebem - 04-09-2015 07:47 PM

(04-09-2015 07:29 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 06:19 PM)jebem Wrote:  However, online reading is available from most popular web browsers, as long as the person has the eBook reclaim code and a Vitalsource account registration.

Oh, that's very handy!
Smile

[Image: 5512994776_505eea6eb3_o.png]

Hehe... unfortunately the property authors assumes that all people can be tempted to share the goods they buy with their friends and even with unknown people in the net.
I guess this is the (good) human nature in his best.
However this natural behavior goes against the other people doing business from selling those goods.
Go figure...


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Massimo Gnerucci - 04-09-2015 08:03 PM

(04-09-2015 07:47 PM)jebem Wrote:  Hehe... unfortunately the property authors assumes that all people can be tempted to share the goods they buy with their friends and even with unknown people in the net.
I guess this is the (good) human nature in his best.
However this natural behavior goes against the other people doing business from selling those goods.
Go figure...

Ok, that's true.
But there are some... uhm... nuisuances (?) with DRM, here's a couple (1, 2) of them.


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - walter b - 04-09-2015 08:59 PM

(04-09-2015 08:03 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  But there are some... uhm... nuisuances (?) with DRM, here's a couple (1, 2) of them.

Correct. As far as I read your links there are some ... ummh ... problems with data privacy infringement by some big companies all based in one great country (by chance, of course). That (?) country has a data privacy legislation which - for whatever reason - is lax compared to European laws (it's not alone: also other large countries are challenged in this area). In consequence, those companies do a lot of things which are blatantly illegal at least in my country. Shame on them!

Another cup of tea is that authors want to protect their copyright (for whatever reason). AFAICS, the only connection to the topic above is that some of said companies also offer some ways of protecting / encrypting digital documents. Personally, I'm not married to any of them (as people say here), so if there's a way to protect copyright without involving any of said companies I'm most willing to go it.

d:-/


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Massimo Gnerucci - 04-09-2015 10:26 PM

(04-09-2015 08:59 PM)walter b Wrote:  Another cup of tea is that authors want to protect their copyright (for whatever reason). AFAICS, the only connection to the topic above is that some of said companies also offer some ways of protecting / encrypting digital documents. Personally, I'm not married to any of them (as people say here), so if there's a way to protect copyright without involving any of said companies I'm most willing to go it.

d:-/

Of course you have any right to protect your intellectual property.

However, when I buy something, I want to buy it, not the permission to use it. It's a loan? Then I may not be interested in it.
I don't trust anything involving online validation: will the servers still be there in, say, ten years? Seems not, maybe. :(
And at least one author reacts to the DRM imposed by his publisher... :)


RE: WP-34S PDF Manual Vers 3.3 Availability? - Thomas_Sch - 04-10-2015 05:51 AM

(04-09-2015 08:59 PM)walter b Wrote:  ...
Personally, I'm not married to any of them (as people say here), so if there's a way to protect copyright without involving any of said companies I'm most willing to go it.
dUndecided
If you have not read yet, i wrote something here
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-3585-post-32474.html#pid32474
This way the customer gets real ownership.

The virtual and cloudy solutions may stop the services or refuse the rights.
Not all internet citicens are connected 24/7 ...

"do not shoot with cannons at sparrows" - just my 0.02 €