HP Forum Archive 21

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HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #1 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 3:14 a.m. Here is the link: www.eduhp.cn/News/Detailed/71 Be quick! NOTE: Original link was removed. Try this: http://www.cncalc.org/forum.php? mod=viewthread&tid=9087 Edited: 16 July 2013, 10:51 p.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #2 Posted by aurelio on 16 July 2013, 5:52 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) thank-you very much, I'm curious to play with it.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #3 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 16 July 2013, 5:54 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Thank you! (Been playing with it just for 15 minutes... About CAS Mode (Oh dear..) No implied multiplication... and no RPN entry mode?? (It looks like it has nice things there, but I don't have too much time now.)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #4 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 6:37 a.m., in response to message #3 by Manolo Sobrino Quote: ... and no RPN entry mode?? It HAS! Just click the Setting on the left side of the keypad.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #5 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 16 July 2013, 6:53 a.m., in response to message #4 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Well, I can't make it work when in CAS mode. It shows the stack only in function mode...

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #6 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 6:55 a.m., in response to message #5 by Manolo Sobrino After all it's a pre release version...

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #7 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 16 July 2013, 7:53 a.m., in response to message #6 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Well... according to the User Guide (p. 33): Quote: Choosing an entry type (...) Advanced RPN (where RPN stands for Reverse Polish Notation). [Not available in CAS view.] ... (About implied multiplication: It looks like it can parse some expressions, but it fails for 1/x x BTW, units conversion suck, expression patterns are cool but not having a keyboard short-cut for the | ("with") operator is just dumb.) Edited: 16 July 2013, 9:19 a.m.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #8 Posted by Tim Wessman on 16 July 2013, 10:35 a.m., in response to message #7 by Manolo Sobrino > | ("with") So you want it as a primary key function? That is the only way it could be more accessible. Right now it take 1 key click, and 1 tap.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #9 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 16 July 2013, 11:47 a.m., in response to message #8 by Tim Wessman Fair enough. I take it back as it works much better than I thought. Maybe because I was testing it in RPN mode (I know... it's meaningless that way) and tapping yielded a ' | ' pattern. It makes sense now. It was quite a let-down to realise that CAS is algebraic-only, though. (I don't really like modal calculators, but that surely wasn't your call so I won't fuss over it.) I've spotted a couple of typos in the menus (not in the associated functions): It should be "Divergence" and "Riemann Sum". It is probably a glitch in the emulator, but sub-menus associated to menu items are only opened when pressing the right-arrow. Tapping the screen opens them immediately. The pop-up options, as in "patterns", looks the way to go. Getting rid of pull-up menus would be interesting. Regards

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #10 Posted by Tim Wessman on 16 July 2013, 11:41 a.m., in response to message #3 by Manolo Sobrino When you do not have predefined variables, you cannot have implied multiplication. Why does it not exist on the 50g? Implied multiplication can only work when you disallow the ability to create and define variables, or at least have some strong limits there. You can work in some possible cases, but how do you know if the users wants "2XN" to be "2*X*N", "2XN", "2X*N", or "2*XN"? This is the same reason something like the nspire doesn't have implied multiplication. HOME does, since there are predefined variables there and it has small hurdles to variable creation. Yes, the manual is correct that there is no RPN in the CAS. Since xcas stopped supporting that a long time ago, it will take quite a bit of work that cannot be done now to re-enable that there. TW Edited: 16 July 2013, 11:42 a.m.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #11 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 16 July 2013, 12:04 p.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman And that's why e.g. the TI 89 forbids alphanumeric variables that start with numbers (and treats all contiguous characters after the last number before the first letter in a string as the name of a variable). It is perfectly reasonable and there are zillions of combinations left to label them anyway. The benefits outweigh the limitations IMHO. But I was mostly referring to this: Edited: more examples -> But Edited: 16 July 2013, 12:34 p.m.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #12 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 16 July 2013, 5:36 p.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman Quote: Since xcas stopped supporting that a long time ago, it will take quite a bit of work that cannot be done now to re-enable that there. This will be a very missed feature. Sure it is difficult, but still much easier than going to the moon :-) "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and to do these other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard" (JFK)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #13 Posted by Gilles Carpentier on 16 July 2013, 6:45 p.m., in response to message #3 by Manolo Sobrino 'No implied multiplication...' I hate implied multiplication. It's the best way to introduce bugs in any program With implied multiplication. you get a different result for ab if a, b or ab variables exist or not. in CAS mode what is ab suppose to be ? a b a*b ?

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #14 Posted by Patrice on 16 July 2013, 7:02 p.m., in response to message #13 by Gilles Carpentier No implicit multiplication in programs. This have been taken care of.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #15 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 16 July 2013, 7:40 p.m., in response to message #13 by Gilles Carpentier It should be ab... As 2a should be 2*a, and 2a2 should be 2*a2. The way Mathematica and every piece of sensible software does it (even Matlab, that has no implied multiplication, has the rule that variables start with a letter.) It appears that this device, or at least the emulator version, has noncommutative implied multiplication, behold: CAS mode: x(x/x)=x*(x/x)=x (x/x)x=error That's quite a feat... (Why do I have the feeling that some people will soon stand for it as "the right thing to do"?)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #16 Posted by Tim Wessman on 16 July 2013, 8:29 p.m., in response to message #15 by Manolo Sobrino File bug reports on that there. (provided the behavior is the same in the xcas client software, which in this case it is) http://xcas.e.ujf-grenoble.fr/XCAS/ TW Edited: 16 July 2013, 9:49 p.m.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #17 Posted by Gilles Carpentier on 17 July 2013, 11:50 a.m., in response to message #15 by Manolo Sobrino Quote: It should be ab... As 2a should be 2*a, and 2a2 should be 2*a2. The way Mathematica and every piece of sensible software does it (even Matlab, that has no implied multiplication, has the rule that variables start with a letter.) If I understand, that means that a variable can be only one letter followed by numbers. I understand this in a mathematical point of view, but it's a heavy limitation for an ingeneer point of view if you need significiant names for variables.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #18 Posted by Patrice on 17 July 2013, 1:51 p.m., in response to message #17 by Gilles Carpentier You can Define your own variables with D key, there is not limit that I know (apart from being reasonable), even non latin chars should be allowed. In Home If you type 2ABC2, it will be 2*A*B*C*2 If C2 is define, it will be 2*A*B*C2 If ABC is define, it will be 2*ABC*2

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #19 Posted by Manolo Sobrino on 17 July 2013, 4:16 p.m., in response to message #17 by Gilles Carpentier I never said that... in fact what I said above was: Quote: (X) treats all contiguous characters after the last number before the first letter in a string as the name of a variable Hence you can define the variable (for the sake of the example, I'll write a too long one) nicevar123int Because you don't really need 123nicevarint If you needed "123nicevarint" you could always define "a123nicevarint" (come on... do we really need to write down these things?). Not having such names allows you to save days of your life you'd otherwise spend typing * every-single-time. It's called conventions, they're useful because you take advantage of them to avoid unnecessary work. On the other hand, parsers are hard.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #20 Posted by Walter B on 16 July 2013, 6:10 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) 48MB! Gosh! But works - Thanks! d:-)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #21 Posted by Cristian Arezzini on 16 July 2013, 6:31 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Has it already disappeared? I see (with Google Translate) "Click here to download the emulator" but I see no link there...

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #22 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 6:40 a.m., in response to message #21 by Cristian Arezzini That's why I said "BE QUICK". Luckily, they just uploaded the emu on a cloud server, not their own service. So here is the direct link: pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=4034118352&uk=3842259049

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #23 Posted by Cristian Arezzini on 16 July 2013, 7:25 a.m., in response to message #22 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Thanks, it works. Very excited! :) Any chance to see the user's manual too? This looks like a very complex beast...

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #24 Posted by fhub on 16 July 2013, 7:27 a.m., in response to message #23 by Cristian Arezzini Quote: Any chance to see the user's manual too? This looks like a very complex beast... All manuals (in several languages) are included in the setup! Franz

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #25 Posted by 'Angel Martin on 16 July 2013, 1:09 p.m., in response to message #24 by fhub Not on mine :(

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #26 Posted by fhub on 16 July 2013, 1:57 p.m., in response to message #25 by 'Angel Martin Quote: Not on mine :( That's impossible. The setup (HP_Prime_Virtual_Calculator_PreRelease1.exe) installs 3 different manuals (Quick_Start_Guide, User_Guide and Emulator_Help) as PDF files in 7 different languages (IIRC, I've already deleted most of them) in the HP-Prime folder. Franz

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #27 Posted by Pal G. on 16 July 2013, 4:55 p.m., in response to message #25 by 'Angel Martin Same here. A window pops up with: "The help file pdf was not found." The PDFs are installed, but I had no PDF viewer installed. After I installed SumatraPDF the Help files opened.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #28 Posted by hpnut on 16 July 2013, 10:00 p.m., in response to message #22 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Quote: That's why I said "BE QUICK". Luckily, they just uploaded the emu on a cloud server, not their own service. So here is the direct link: pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=4034118352&uk=3842259049 thanks, my friend from China. appreciate you joining our big happy international family of HP fans here :-) hpnut from Malaysia

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #29 Posted by Patrice on 16 July 2013, 7:37 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) What is the emulator revision ?

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #30 Posted by fhub on 16 July 2013, 7:39 a.m., in response to message #29 by Patrice Quote: What is the emulator revision ? Pre-Release 1

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #31 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 7:40 a.m., in response to message #29 by Patrice In fact it's a pre release edition. If you click the About, then you will see "hp-39gii" instead of PRIME.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #32 Posted by fhub on 16 July 2013, 7:45 a.m., in response to message #31 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Quote: If you click the About, then you will see "hp-39gii" instead of PRIME. Hmmm? Not here! The 'About' shows: PC version of HP Prime calculator ... Version: Pre-Release 1 I guess you rather mean the Emulator help file (PDF), this one really is from the 39gII. Franz Edited: 16 July 2013, 7:46 a.m.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #33 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 8:23 a.m., in response to message #32 by fhub OK I realized the problem is that I chosed the Chinese language, and they haven't changed those resource files yet.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #34 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 7:42 a.m., in response to message #29 by Patrice Also, as found by adriweb, the manual is imcomplete, with comments of the dev team. www.cncalc.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=9087&extra=&page=2

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #35 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 16 July 2013, 9:35 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) For a prerelease not bad! There seem to be some issues with RPN entry and the Function Applet. Try to enter a function such as SIN(X) while in RPN mode. RPN seems to be active even outside the home screen and interferes with symbolic entry.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #36 Posted by Tim Wessman on 16 July 2013, 10:55 a.m., in response to message #35 by Marcus von Cube, Germany RPN works in these screens as well. 'SIN(X)' for an algebraic. Should it not work everywhere to the extent possible?

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #37 Posted by Joe Horn on 16 July 2013, 9:54 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) If you press Help key, then press the Tree menu button, then select "About HP Prime", you'll see the actual software version, which is 2013 6 13 (4040). That's the date followed by the build number. Notice that it's over a month old. Therefore, don't put much stock in anything you see in this ancient build; there will be many changes made before final product release. I wonder who leaked this "pre-release" version. Edward Snowden, perhaps? ;-)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #38 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 16 July 2013, 10:15 a.m., in response to message #37 by Joe Horn Quote: If you press Help key, then press the Tree menu button, then select "About HP Prime", you'll see the actual software version, which is 2013 6 13 (4040). That's the date followed by the build number. Notice that it's over a month old. Therefore, don't put much stock in anything you see in this ancient build; there will be many changes made before final product release. I wonder who leaked this "pre-release" version. Edward Snowden, perhaps? ;-) I think HP sent the version to agency for test. Since they also gave several samples to students in Beijing for test. When I found the page at first, their is no download links, only a text saying: Click here for download. So I asked the agency directly. Then they put the file online.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #39 Posted by Pal G. on 16 July 2013, 11:33 a.m., in response to message #37 by Joe Horn Joe, please do not type that person's name in this forum. We don't want the MiB or S.H.I.E.L.D. or TOA* to shut down our beloved calculator forum! *TOA - That Other Agency (that starts with an 'N' and ends with 'SA'). ;)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #40 Posted by Walter B on 16 July 2013, 4:24 p.m., in response to message #39 by Pal G. Thinking some 40 years back: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose" - not even private data ... d;-/

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #41 Posted by Harald on 16 July 2013, 5:14 p.m., in response to message #40 by Walter B Quote: Thinking some 40 years back: No need to go 40 years back. This is at least as good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FpDWTyI4S0 Quote: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose" This is so true, and a lot of people will probably never realize that. Or as Goethe put it: Quote: None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. I guess ignorance is bliss ;)

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #42 Posted by Joe Horn on 16 July 2013, 4:38 p.m., in response to message #39 by Pal G. Quote: Joe, please do not type that person's name in this forum. We don't want the MiB or S.H.I.E.L.D. or TOA* to shut down our beloved calculator forum! Aauugghh!!! Good point! I didn't think of that. <sheepish grin>

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #43 Posted by Paul Dale on 16 July 2013, 5:25 p.m., in response to message #42 by Joe Horn We should be mentioning Snowden's name every bit as much as we possibly can. False positives are far and away the commonest result from this kind of surveillance, so lets give them plenty more. - Pauli

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #44 Posted by CompSystems on 16 July 2013, 10:47 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) My review under construction (spanish) http://www.adictoshp.org/topic/350-review-hp-prime-virtual-calculator-on-pc/

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #45 Posted by Tim Wessman on 16 July 2013, 11:00 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Feel free to send me a message with any bugs found. I expect most of them will have been resolved by now, but appreciate any new ones. Comments also appreciated on any translation issues for languages. TW

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #46 Posted by Pal G. on 16 July 2013, 11:45 a.m., in response to message #45 by Tim Wessman TW, Since you are publicly soliciting our help, can you provide us with the latest build? Wouldn't you rather we debug the software you expect has no bugs? How is it beneficial for you (HP) to receive reports of bugs you expect are already fixed?? Please excuse my ignorance if there are legal reasons we can't have the latest builds, etc. Thank you, PG

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #47 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 16 July 2013, 5:44 p.m., in response to message #45 by Tim Wessman Spanish version: First menu ("Calculadora"), third item: "Check for updates" is not translated (should be "Buscar actualizaciones"). First menu ("Calculadora"), fourth item ("Idioma") inconsistent notation: some languages are capitalized (English Deutsch, Nederlands), others are in lowercase (español, francais, portugues). Second menu: "Caratulas" is not the proper word, "Tamaño" (size) seems more appropriate. Second menu: The four "size" options are not translated. Fourth menu ("Ayuda"): First item "HP Prime Quick Start Guide" is not translated.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #48 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 16 July 2013, 5:54 p.m., in response to message #47 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) Settings menu, Color theme: "Light" is translated as "Luz", instead of "Claro". (Typical problem with the many different meanings of "light"). Settings menu, Configuration appears as "Default Exam". This may stay in English, as it is rather specific and understandable. Settings menu, wireless network properties: Message "No adapter found" is not translated. Again, this is rather specific and understandable, so it may stay; a bad translation would be worse. CAS settings: The title bar cannot show all the text, abbreviation needed. The text is truncated both at left and right.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #49 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 16 July 2013, 5:56 p.m., in response to message #48 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) After pressing "Menu" key, the third option (Messages) is not translated. And the second option is truncated. CAS should be used as an acronym, the expansion into "sistema algebráico computacional" (or so) is too long. Edited: 16 July 2013, 5:57 p.m.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #50 Posted by Patrice on 16 July 2013, 6:41 p.m., in response to message #49 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) Hi Andrés, A few things to help translation improvement. - say the language - say if windows App labals or in the calc Open 2 emulators side by side, 1 in English, 1 in your language. and use a bloc like screen title in english how you go to the screen if not obvious and "English label" translated as "my language labal" should be replaced "new label "English label" => "my language labal" => "new label "English label" => "my language labal" => "new label "English label" => "my language labal" => "new label put all together in a text file and post a big message, you can also send me a mail or to Tim.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #51 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 17 July 2013, 7:46 a.m., in response to message #50 by Patrice Patrice, thanks for your comments, good ideas indeed. I'm now in contact with Tim, but if I eventually need to post here some additional cases, I will post them following your suggestions.

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! - I/O Connections? Message #52 Posted by JJB299 on 16 July 2013, 3:09 p.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) I've read about the Prime connecting to a teacher's laptop with a wireless dongle, but the articles suggest that the calculator is just a slave to the laptop and cannot inititate communication. I can't find too much in the emulator use manual. What exactly can the calculator do with I/O? Can I connect to ANY bluetooth device? Can it be master or slave? Or is it just the HP bluetooth that I can connect to? Lastly, what about wired connections? Is it USB protocol or serial? Thanks!

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #53 Posted by hpnut on 16 July 2013, 9:35 p.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Quote: Here is the link: www.eduhp.cn/News/Detailed/71 Be quick! Huh? limited time only? I see the website is in Eastern Greek (Chinese) but even after Google translate, I cannot click to download. thanks for any help, hpnut in Malaysia

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #54 Posted by Steve Simpkin on 16 July 2013, 9:59 p.m., in response to message #53 by hpnut Try the following link near the top post. http://www.cncalc.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=9087&extra=&page=2

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #55 Posted by Les Koller on 16 July 2013, 10:40 p.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Thank you so much for the quick information, and then updating the file location when needed!

Re: HP PRIME EMULATOR!!! From HP China Agency Message #56 Posted by Kimberly Thompson on 17 July 2013, 11:43 a.m., in response to message #1 by Waon Shinyoe (China) Loquitor interesting article source on PRIME, enjoy! http://www.hpgraphingcalc.org/uploads/9/4/3/8/9438994/prime_workshop_v1_3.pdf SlideRule

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