HP Forum Archive 21

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Programs for 15C and 35S Message #1 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 19 May 2013, 1:28 p.m. HP 15C: Julian Date HP 35S Horizontal Curve: Radius, Chord Length, Arc Length given Tangent Length and Radius HP 35S Vertical Curve: Point of Peak and Elevation at Peak Point and Length HP 35S: Distance to Horizon HP 35S Air Density and Density Altitude HP 35S: Approximate Length of Sunlight

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #2 Posted by LMMT on 20 May 2013, 4:39 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eddie W. Shore Thank you, very useful!

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #3 Posted by Walter B on 20 May 2013, 5:46 a.m., in response to message #2 by LMMT +1. BTW, is anybody collecting such programs in a program library of some kind? The collective knowledge of RPN programmers shouldn't vanish in time IMHO. I know the RPL folks have their place at hpcalc.org. Is there anything alike for RPN? If true, where? d:-)

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #4 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 20 May 2013, 8:05 a.m., in response to message #3 by Walter B Software Library HP-41C Software Library

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #5 Posted by Torsten on 20 May 2013, 2:54 p.m., in response to message #3 by Walter B I have some programs on my HP-15C simulator page and some of Eddie's programs are part of the simulator distributions. I am looking forward to receiving more HP-15C programs to be published and included with the simulator. Preferably already as .15c program file with the documentation included.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #6 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 20 May 2013, 3:48 p.m., in response to message #5 by Torsten The listings that your simulator creates are very nice! Congratulations! Just had a glimpse at Little Gauss. Here's a third variant: LBL C 1 + 2 Cy,x RTN In the article Effective Computer-aided Calculator Programming - Part 1 - Voyager you can find a compiler that could probably be adjusted to produce the format you need for your simulator as well. Just thought you might be interested. Kind regards Thomas Edited: 20 May 2013, 6:34 p.m.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #7 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 21 May 2013, 2:43 p.m., in response to message #6 by Thomas Klemm Quote: Here's a third variant: LBL C 1 + 2 Cy,x RTN More computational effort, I think, but a record for conciseness! Increasing the constants by one will give the sum of the first n triangular numbers. Increasing them by one again will give the sum of the latter, and so on it appears. Cheers, Gerson.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #8 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 21 May 2013, 11:27 p.m., in response to message #7 by Gerson W. Barbosa If you define as the forward difference operator defined as an = an+1 - an and the summation operator as an = Sum[ai, {i, 0, n-1}], you can verify the following: = 1 (identity) Cn,k = Cn,k-1 Cn,k = Cn,k+1 Thus these two operators are shifting the index k of the binomial coefficient up and down. This is similar to how differentiation and integration operate upon the functions fk(x) = xk/k!. Hence the similarity of Newton's Forward Difference Formula with the Taylor series expansion. Cheers Thomas

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #9 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 3 June 2013, 10:37 p.m., in response to message #6 by Thomas Klemm On the HP-42S Little Gauss can be made the same size in bytes without using COMB. One step longer, however: 00 { 13-Byte Prgm } 01 LBL "LG" 02 1 03 + 04 2 05 COMB 06 END 00 { 13-Byte Prgm } 01 LBL "LG" 02 X^2 03 RCL+ ST L 05 2 06 / 07 END Since we're at it, here is Gauss Little (Inverse Little Gauss :-) 00 { 21-Byte Prgm } 01 LBL "GL" 02 8 03 * 04 1 05 + 06 SQRT 07 0.5 08 * 09 RCL- ST L 10 END Cheers, Gerson.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #10 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 4 June 2013, 12:39 a.m., in response to message #9 by Gerson W. Barbosa Very nice! Do you still remember that thread: Short Quadratic Solver (HP-42S) This solution is based on it: 00 { 17-Byte Prgm } 01 LBL "GL" 02 STO+ ST X 03 SQRT 04 ENTER 05 STO+ ST X 06 1/X 07 ASINH 08 E^X 09 / 10 END Best regards Thomas The port to HP-15C is straight forward: 001 - 42,21,11 LBL A 002 - 36 ENTER 003 - 40 + 004 - 11 SQRT 005 - 36 ENTER 006 - 36 ENTER 007 - 40 + 008 - 15 1/x 009 - 43,22,23 ASINH 010 - 12 e^x 011 - 10 / 012 - 43 32 RTN Edited: 4 June 2013, 4:27 a.m.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #11 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 4 June 2013, 10:53 a.m., in response to message #10 by Thomas Klemm Quote: 00 { 17-Byte Prgm } Great saving, more than I expected! Just an interesting result: 2 SQRT 23 + XEQ GL XEQ GL Cheers, Gerson. [sub]Edited to fix a typo per Thomas's observation below[/pre] Edited: 4 June 2013, 12:03 p.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #12 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 4 June 2013, 12:01 p.m., in response to message #11 by Gerson W. Barbosa How on earth did you stumble upon this? That's amazing! But it took me a while to figure out that XL is probably a typo. Best regards Thomas

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #13 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 4 June 2013, 12:10 p.m., in response to message #12 by Thomas Klemm Okay, I guess I figured it out: #!/usr/bin/python from math import pi x = pi for i in range(10): x = x*(x + 1)/2 print "%.12f" % x 6.505598527340 24.414205363131 310.233814438138 48277.626717637635 1165388759.557138442993 679065481033757312.000000000000 230564963765804121415221078080356352.000000000000 2.65801012582e+70 3.53250891447e+140 6.23930961541e+280 I'm still impressed. Cheers Thomas

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #14 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 4 June 2013, 12:46 p.m., in response to message #13 by Thomas Klemm Quote: 679065481033757312.000000000000 How accurate should that be? On the WP34S I get 679065481033757541.1897711439112775 Another interesting near-integer, not related to the above: pi^34 = 8.00010471505e16 or pi^34*10-16 - pi/3*10-4 = 7.99999999529 Yet another one involving sqrt(2) and pi: 1/2*pi^34 = 141422281.793 Whether these are a coincidence or not, I don't know. Best regards, Gerson Edited: 4 June 2013, 12:49 p.m.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #15 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 4 June 2013, 1:38 p.m., in response to message #14 by Gerson W. Barbosa e to the pi Minus pi Also, I hear the 4th root of (9^2 + 19^2/22) is pi.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #16 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 4 June 2013, 9:27 p.m., in response to message #15 by Thomas Klemm Quote: e to the pi Minus pi http://jsmarkovitch.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/coincidence-data-compression-and-mach_s-concept-of-economy-of-thought-j-s-markovitch.pdf Quote: Also, I hear the 4th root of (9^2 + 19^2/22) is pi This is a bit closer, but still too far away: Edited: 4 June 2013, 9:41 p.m.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #17 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 5 June 2013, 7:37 a.m., in response to message #16 by Gerson W. Barbosa That's an interesting paper. Both cases are handled. Thanks a lot for posting the link. Kind regards Thomas

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #18 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 4 June 2013, 12:11 p.m., in response to message #12 by Thomas Klemm Quote: How on earth did you stumble upon this? PI XEQ LG XEQ LG 2 SQRT - --> 22.9999918008 Cheers, Gerson.

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #19 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 4 June 2013, 5:34 a.m., in response to message #9 by Gerson W. Barbosa For those interested in the math behind it: Quadratic equation: Solution: Logarithmic representation of inverse hyperbolic function: This implies: Try to bring the solution of the quadratic equation to this form: Substitution: Move the negative sign through sinh-1: Use e-x=1/ex:

HP-35S Vertical Curve: Elevation at Peak and at End Point Message #20 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 20 May 2013, 8:32 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eddie W. Shore Quote: Examples Uphill curve: I = 1,000 ft G = 7% = .07 H = -4% = -.04 L = 1,368 ft Point at peak elevation is 870.545 ft into the curve at 1,030.469 ft. The elevation at the end of the curve is 1,020.520 ft. Given your solution I get: G = (1,030.469 - 1,000) / 870.545 = 0.035 H = (1,020.520 - 1,030.469) / (1,368 - 870.545) = -0.02 So it seems a factor 2 is missing somewhere. As I'm not an engineer I wonder why the length L is divided into two parts similar to G:H (or rather |G|:|H|) to determine the peak. Why would somebody want to do that? What's the real world application of it? Kind regards Thomas

Re: HP-35S Vertical Curve: Elevation at Peak and at End Point Message #21 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 23 May 2013, 3:56 p.m., in response to message #20 by Thomas Klemm Quote: Given your solution I get: G = (1,030.469 - 1,000) / 870.545 = 0.035 H = (1,020.520 - 1,030.469) / (1,368 - 870.545) = -0.02 So it seems a factor 2 is missing somewhere. As I'm not an engineer I wonder why the length L is divided into two parts similar to G:H (or rather |G|:|H|) to determine the peak. Why would somebody want to do that? What's the real world application of it? Kind regards Thomas I am looking into this. I got the formulas from the Fundamental of Engineering Handbook reference book, if it helps. You determination for G and H are straight forward. Update: It seems to be a factor of 2 at peak point. Vertical curves, to my understanding, are symmetrical in a sense of tangent lines: one created from the beginning of the curve and on at the end of the curve. If a line is drawn at the intersection of the tangent line perpendicular to the base, that line bisects the length of the base. The grade is determined from where the tangent lines meet. In a perfectly symmetrical vertical curves the tangent lines meet at the curve's peak elevation. For this case: G = (y0 - I)/(L/2) and H = (I - y0)/(L/2) where y0 is the peak elevation. Some more information is provided here: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/publications/manuals/fulltext/M22-23/Vertical.pdf http://www.iowadot.gov/design/dmanual/02b-01.pdf I am not an engineer either, I just have an interest in the subject. Hope this helps, Eddie Edited: 23 May 2013, 10:09 p.m.

Re: HP-35S Vertical Curve: Elevation at Peak and at End Point Message #22 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 25 May 2013, 7:33 a.m., in response to message #21 by Eddie W. Shore I completely mixed up the peak point of the curve and the Vertical Point of Intersection. But I didn't realize that we're dealing with a curve (a parabola to be more specific) because it's missing in your sketch. I assumed the two intersecting lines, that's the curve. Thanks for providing the links to the papers. It clarified a lot. Cheers Thomas

Re: HP-35S Vertical Curve: Elevation at Peak and at End Point Message #23 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 29 May 2013, 7:24 a.m., in response to message #22 by Thomas Klemm Quote: I completely mixed up the peak point of the curve and the Vertical Point of Intersection. But I didn't realize that we're dealing with a curve (a parabola to be more specific) because it's missing in your sketch. I assumed the two intersecting lines, that's the curve. Thanks for providing the links to the papers. It clarified a lot. Cheers Thomas Thomas, Thanks for posting the question - you helped me become clearer on the subject. Much appreciated.

Re: HP-35S Vertical Curve: Elevation at Peak and at End Point Message #24 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 29 May 2013, 8:52 a.m., in response to message #23 by Eddie W. Shore Just compare these two images: VERTICAL CURVE EQUATIONS HP35S Vertical Curve: Elevation at Peak and at End Point LEGEND g1 = Approach gradient in % A = Algebraic difference in gradients L = Length of vertical curve stations B.V.C. = Beginning of Vertical Curve V.P.I. = Vertical Point of Intersection E.V.C. = End of Vertical Curve X = Distance from the B.V.C. to the low or high point in stations. EQUATIONS X = g1{L/A} Your sketch suggest that (x0, y(x0)) is the Vertical Point of Intersection where instead it is the peak of the curve. I recommend to change the sketch. Kind regards Thomas

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #25 Posted by Dieter on 20 May 2013, 10:28 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eddie W. Shore Eddie, I tried the Julian date program and noticed that it will work only for dates since the introduction of the Gregorian calendar on October 15, 1582 (JD 2299161). Every date before produces a JD result that is off by some days, simply because the rules for leap years introduced with the Gregorian calendar did not apply earlier. Example: date Julian Day 15C program error -------------------------------------------------- Oct 15, 1582 JD 2299161 JD 2299161 0 ; first day of Gregorian calendar Oct 04, 1582 JD 2299160 JD 2299150 -10 ; last day of Julian calendar Jan 01, 1500 JD 2268933 JD 2268924 -9 Jan 01, 1000 JD 2086308 JD 2086303 -5 Jan 01, 300 JD 1830633 JD 1830633 0 Jan 01, 1 JD 1721424 JD 1721426 +2 In other words, the 15C program assumes a proleptic (perpetual) Gregorian calendar, so that even dates before Oct 15, 1582 are assumed Gregorian. This means that even dates in medieval times are assumed to be given in a calendar system introduced many centuries later. This is at least not very common, so that either the program should be modified or a respective note should be added. Dieter

Re: Programs for 15C and 35S Message #26 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 23 May 2013, 3:58 p.m., in response to message #25 by Dieter Quote: Eddie, I tried the Julian date program and noticed that it will work only for dates since the introduction of the Gregorian calendar on October 15, 1582 (JD 2299161). Every date before produces a JD result that is off by some days, simply because the rules for leap years introduced with the Gregorian calendar did not apply earlier. Example: date Julian Day 15C program error -------------------------------------------------- Oct 15, 1582 JD 2299161 JD 2299161 0 ; first day of Gregorian calendar Oct 04, 1582 JD 2299160 JD 2299150 -10 ; last day of Julian calendar Jan 01, 1500 JD 2268933 JD 2268924 -9 Jan 01, 1000 JD 2086308 JD 2086303 -5 Jan 01, 300 JD 1830633 JD 1830633 0 Jan 01, 1 JD 1721424 JD 1721426 +2 In other words, the 15C program assumes a proleptic (perpetual) Gregorian calendar, so that even dates before Oct 15, 1582 are assumed Gregorian. This means that even dates in medieval times are assumed to be given in a calendar system introduced many centuries later. This is at least not very common, so that either the program should be modified or a respective note should be added. Dieter Dieter, I will do the note. Thanks for pointing this out. Always appreciated. Eddie Edited: 23 May 2013, 10:09 p.m.

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Go back to the main exhibit hall